Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

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Re: Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

Postby AHBD » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:33 pm

Poor thing, but you are doing a great job caring for and getting nutrition in him. But I can't believe another thread where a vet does pretty serious damage. Your mom should bring up the fact that the treatment should be free now that your dragon was hurt at this clinic even though the vet did not mean to do it. Can you imagine going to a Dr. exam and getting your bone broken ? Not only would you not have to pay for the " treatment" but you'd be able to recover $$ for pain, suffering + damages.

Opening a stubborn beardies mouth is not that hard, you can gently wiggle a credit card in or you can tug on the bottom of the beard. Sometimes just repeatedly tapping on the nose will get them defensive + cause them to open up but you sure wouldn't be negligent enough to break it's jaw. Best wished for your injured baby !!
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Re: Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

Postby claudiusx » Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:18 pm

Blackenedsabbath wrote:[Click image to enlarge]




Jesus, I didn't realize that his jaw was that bad. The bone is literally sticking out?!
The vet thinks that this will just heal on it's own? I'm sorry but I really don't think so. AHBD makes a good point, at the very least the vet should cover cost to fix his jaw. Does the vet think the bone is going to magically get sucked back under the skin and heal up?
Gah.

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Re: Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

Postby Blackenedsabbath » Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:18 pm

AHBD wrote:Poor thing, but you are doing a great job caring for and getting nutrition in him. But I can't believe another thread where a vet does pretty serious damage. Your mom should bring up the fact that the treatment should be free now that your dragon was hurt at this clinic even though the vet did not mean to do it. Can you imagine going to a Dr. exam and getting your bone broken ? Not only would you not have to pay for the " treatment" but you'd be able to recover $$ for pain, suffering + damages.

Opening a stubborn beardies mouth is not that hard, you can gently wiggle a credit card in or you can tug on the bottom of the beard. Sometimes just repeatedly tapping on the nose will get them defensive + cause them to open up but you sure wouldn't be negligent enough to break it's jaw. Best wished for your injured baby !!


The vet is passing off the injury as a "jaw deformity" in Pancake. When my mom was talking to him on the phone he was avoiding the questions and said dogs and cats can have broken bones and the owner will never know about it.

Pancake doesn't respond to the tapping thing at all, he just closes his eyes and will wait for the vet to go away. They used a credit card to open his mouth, then stuck a syringe (with the end cut off) in his mouth to keep it open to get the swab in, and the syringe fractured his jaw. The vet and vet tech didn't even notice his jaw pop up; I immediately freaked out and then they were all "huh??"

Neither of my parents are impressed about it at all and neither am I. It just makes everything more difficult and painful for my poor baby. Praying that the abscess goes away, I will talk to the vet with my mom about at least giving a discount to correct his jaw.

claudiusx wrote:Jesus, I didn't realize that his jaw was that bad. The bone is literally sticking out?!
The vet thinks that this will just heal on it's own? I'm sorry but I really don't think so. AHBD makes a good point, at the very least the vet should cover cost to fix his jaw. Does the vet think the bone is going to magically get sucked back under the skin and heal up?
Gah.

-Brandon


This is why I have been freaking out!! I don't understand how it's supposed to heal on its own either :( He said the whole bone is fragile and if he puts a wire in it will break it more.

My mom is debating trying to a hold of a vet in the States, we are in Canada, just to get some advice. Do you any of you have some suggestions or the number of your vets?

Edit:
I failed to mention, the vet did not offer to do any x-rays of his jaw nor did he mention doing them in the future.
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Re: Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

Postby Blackenedsabbath » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:51 pm

Okay, I contacted a reptile rescue close-ish to my area and asked for their opinion or vet recommendations. They recommended the Waterloo West Animal Hospital (in Ontario, Canada). Has anyone in Ontario been to them? Their reviews on google seem mostly positive, and it seems like they have a lot of modern techniques. They are also open until midnight, which is definitely a plus. I will be contacting them tomorrow after work to get another opinion.
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Re: Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

Postby Drache613 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:08 pm

Hello,

Oh my, that is absolutely unacceptable to me that a vet would be that rough with your dragon!
He has got to be in pain! :cry:
I agree, the vet should be reimbursing you for injury to your dragon.
Are you going to be taking him to the rescue for help?
Please let us know how he is doing, I am very worried about his condition now that I've seen
his jaw. I am so sorry this happened.

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Re: Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

Postby Drache613 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:10 pm

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Re: Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

Postby Blackenedsabbath » Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:36 am

The rescue organization has their own private vet, but they said she is currently on vacation and isnt back until later in October. They said in their experience they haven't seen any reptiles with this, but their vet would likely wire his jaw shut and install a feeding tube. The board members suggested Waterloo as an alternative. They did give the name of a specific vet at that animal hospital so I will try to speak to him directly if possible.

There was an article on the internet about a bearded dragon with an exposed bone in his mouth, and the vet in that particular situation put pins in and it healed in 3 months.

Anytime I try to talk to my vet about this he keeps going back to the abscess and saying thats more important and to wait until he is done the antibiotics for it. His last dose of the antibiotics will be the morning of October 7th.

He didn't black beard when it happened, nor since it happened. I'm not sure if that's part of his hiding things from predators instinct or if he's trying to tough it out 😥 I let him run around a little bit out of his tank just because he looked so sad, and he was trying to get up to his typical mischief and perked up. I wrapped him up in a warmed towel and attempted to watch tv with him, but he was more interested in trying to explore. So in those regards he is his usual self at least.
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Re: Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

Postby AHBD » Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:45 am

Your little Pan is very strong . It's actually a great sign that he eats some and that he moves around as usual. The treatment will be tricky, it's a conundrum because the sooner the jaw is seen to, the better. But the abscess , as your vet mentioned, may need to be shrunk for beardie to be able to breathe better if surgery is performed. Your little guy is tough though. Maybe the abscess is already shrinking now that he's on antibiotics.
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Re: Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

Postby Blackenedsabbath » Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:10 pm

Pancake seemed more energetic today. When he came out of his cave this morning he saw the container of silkworms and got super excited (thankfully I was there because he started bumping his nose off of the glass and he isn't really in any shape to be doing that). He was not interested in eating the manuka honey on its own, but he happily ate a honey covered silkworm. I think the butterworms are bit more difficult for him to chew than the silkworms, he seems to more readily eat them (I am out so I will need to order some more, along with hornworms).

When I was trying to give him his meds he did this weird motion with his head/body, almost like how a snake slithers? I called my vet immediately, apparently he has already left for a conference in the US, but his vet tech told me it's because Pancake doesn't like the taste of the antibiotic? He did it on Friday when I gave him the medication, but only once. He did take the meds in one shot that time, today he was a bit more finicky and was doing that motion every time it got in his mouth, but he didn't do it at all afterwards and hasn't done it any other time, so I'll take their word on it being because he thinks it's yucky.

I let him have some out of the tank time when I got home from work, he was zooming around everywhere again. Another day no black beards; just white and orange beards. Here is a picture from today
[Click image to enlarge]

The stuff on his face is just critical care.

Pan also decided it was a great opportunity to go to the bathroom outside of his tank. His poo is normal.

AHBD wrote:Your little Pan is very strong . It's actually a great sign that he eats some and that he moves around as usual. The treatment will be tricky, it's a conundrum because the sooner the jaw is seen to, the better. But the abscess , as your vet mentioned, may need to be shrunk for beardie to be able to breathe better if surgery is performed. Your little guy is tough though. Maybe the abscess is already shrinking now that he's on antibiotics.


My mom and I are wondering if it's possible that since he had never been to a vet before I adopted him that the antibiotics could work faster or more effectively? Because there would be no tolerance build up, right? Or does it not work like that for reptiles?

The breathing thing is a concern for my vet. I am still uncertain about the one in Waterloo; I am trying to track down more reviews regarding reptiles for them before committing to taking him in vs wait for an update on the abscess.
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Re: Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

Postby AHBD » Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:17 pm

Aw, look at the little guy ! Melts my heart. :) He sure has a strong will to just be a dragon, and darned those meds. that he has to take ! They sometimes do the serpentine motion to get something down.
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Re: Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

Postby claudiusx » Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:23 pm

Poor Pan.
I agree, Naughtica used to do the same thing sometimes. It was almost like she was shaking her head no in protest, or disgust lol.

Thanks for the update, it's good to hear he's in good spirits still.

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Re: Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

Postby Blackenedsabbath » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:42 am

This morning Pancake had his meds with no fuss and no weird twisty motion. But he was putting up quite the stink when I tried to clean his face and feed him critical care (he somehow managed to splatter it all over the fridge by shaking his head). He would not stop swatting at me and if beardie glares could kill I would not be typing this. It is worrying me because he was shedding near his lip, and when his jaw fractured the shed that was coming off got caked with the blood and now it's stuck and he's very sensitive about me touching it. A little bit finally came off with some warm water I was gently rubbing over his face, but the rest is still there.

He was AT LAST was enthusiastic about taking water from the syringe last night!! I have never felt so relieved, I've been super panicked about his hydration. His mouth was looking really pale yesterday but today his tongue looked like its normal darker pink.

Tracie mentioned getting a rubber feeding end for the syringe so it will be more gentle on his mouth, do you guys know if I could find one on Amazon? And will the critical care be able to go through it okay?

But on the not as positive side, Pan's breathing is still pretty laboured on and off :/ If the antibiotics were shrinking the abscess wouldn't that be improving?


Edit: Another thing I forgot to mention, about a year ago I took Pancake in to see the vet because he eye kept clouding over with this clear goopy stuff. The vet told me there were no signs of infection or scratches on his cornea, so it was just a piece of shed in his eye that would come out. I tried the manuka honey mix, I tried Fluker's reptile eye rinse (which did help his eye not get stuck shut), but it never cleared up completely and I had to keep carefully pulling goo out of his eye every morning. After he had the first antibiotic injection for the RI, his eye is totally fine. No goo at all. I asked the vet if his eye could be linked to the abscess, and he said possibly. That kind of drives me insane because if it is, we could've caught this a year earlier :/

Another thing I forgot to ask: I borrowed my parents' security camera to watch Pancake while I'm at work or school, but they want to install it in its proper place soon. Do you guys know of any reasonably priced cameras that I could use to watch Pan from my phone? The one I am using right now has live streaming, would would be ideal.
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Re: Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

Postby AHBD » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:15 am

Good to hear that he had a good drink ! For camera info check with Cooperdragon. He has one on his dragon's tank. :)
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Re: Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

Postby Blackenedsabbath » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:00 am

Possible great news!!

Pancake seemed to be moving around quite a lot in his tank yesterday, and the reptile store near my university had just gotten in their batch of hornworms after I was done class. I thought that was great, I could grab a bunch and head home. My car didn't think so and broke down in the middle of the road. I didn't end up getting home until around 9:30 last night, and Pancake's bedtime is 9 :/ But on the camera, he kept looking around as if he was hungry.

When I checked on him after getting home, he jumped into my hand as soon as I went into his terrarium?! That's the first time he's ever done that?! His butterworm refusal reversed, he ate 6 of them without any hesitation and then snuggled up on his blanket to go to sleep. I guess they aren't difficult for him to chew.

This morning, I decided to see if he would eat some Repashy. I filled up his bowl and put some butterworms in, he ate about 5 cubes of Repashy and all the butterworms. Still not very much, but it's progress!! He has been syringe fed for almost a month! He was interested in his bowl and went up to it himself, so hopefully he is beginning to feel a little better!

Also, thanks AHBD, I will contact him!
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Re: Not an RI, Abscess & Jaw Fracture.

Postby daveferns1 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:09 am

Blackenedsabbath wrote:Possible great news!!

This morning, I decided to see if he would eat some Repashy. I filled up his bowl and put some butterworms in, he ate about 5 cubes of Repashy and all the butterworms. Still not very much, but it's progress!! He has been syringe fed for almost a month! He was interested in his bowl and went up to it himself, so hopefully he is beginning to feel a little better!

Also, thanks AHBD, I will contact him!


Sorry I haven't read everything in this post, but Ive tried to update myself. Im so sorry about your little dragon I hope he is feeling better, did your vet prescribe meloxicam for him at all during this?
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