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At a dead end with diarrhea

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:45 pm
by kcimkowski
Hello Everyone,
My bearded dragon Xena, who is about 6-8 months, has had some problems with her bowel movements. I've been to the vet, and that was useless. She was tested for everything and all came back negative. The vet suggested we start feeding her kale instead of mustard greens/collard greens DAILY, which I do not plan on doing, and she told me that 40+ crickets was way too much for her to be eating.Unfortunately this is the only vet near me so I'm taking her opinion with a grain of salt until I can find another. I would really appreciate if anyone has had these problems and how they fixed it.

Tank set up:
40 breeder tank, zilla slimeline desert 50 UVB T8 flourescent strip bulb, 100W basking bulb, 60W ceramic heater for night, green terrarium liner, various accessories. As a side note, her basking side is typically anywhere from 95 to 115 degrees, but usually 104, her cool side is usually 85+ (being monitored via temp gun)

Food Intake:
We had her on Dubia Roaches but switched to crickets which are powdered with calcium +D3 and a multivitamin. She was given mainly mustard greens and sweet peppers daily, but we stopped the peppers thinking it could have been them, and we stopped the mustard greens since we thought the water content was too high POSSIBLY. It has only been 3 days since no vegetables. Previously she was eating turnip greens and we switched to mustard thinking that could be the problem. She gets dechlorinated water every day and a bath almost every other day with dechlorinated water.

Poop Description (Sorry in advance):
The stool is not entirely diarrhea. Her urate is normal. The stool is very soft and can be best described as a cow patty with extra liquid around it. Previously, she would have "log" shaped poops.

General Info:
She has not had ANY behavior changes, she is not lethargic, eating very well, shedding regularly, gaining weight, very active, and has a big personality. She is just over 12 inches long.

Image

Re: At a dead end with diarrhea

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:56 pm
by KarrieRee
When did the poop change before or after the insect change???? Where is the UVB ? In the tank or on top of screen --- kale to me is a NO NO --- I have heard calcium binds to it --- I would stay w/ the mustard greens collard and turnip greens ---
Karrie

Re: At a dead end with diarrhea

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:42 pm
by Claudiusx
Did the vet actually do a fecal test where he/she tested for parasites?

Is she drinking in the bath or from her water bowl at all? The peppers do tend to cause loose stools as they are really high in water content. But, if fecals came back clean, it would most likely simply be from a high water diet. Which isn't necessarily bad. If she eats her salads, let her! :mrgreen:

-Brandon

Re: At a dead end with diarrhea

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:50 pm
by Drache613
Hello,

She looks very good in the picture there.
I agree, the veggies like the peppers are relatively high in water which can cause issues
like looser stools.
I would recommend upgrading to a better UVB light also. The Zilla desert 50 is just an ok
tube UVB but not real strong. If she isn't getting strong enough UVB she could be having
some problems with absorption of her nutrients to some extent. The tube lights we mostly
recommend are the Reptisun 10 or the Arcadia D3 12% or 14% both of which are very good.
Those are the T8 tubes so you wouldn't have to change your tube bulb light fixture. There
are also stronger tube UVB lights, the T5, which are higher outputs by the same brands.
You would have to upgrade to a new T5 tube bulb fixture.
Do you have any probiotics you could add to her diet?

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie

Re: At a dead end with diarrhea

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:14 am
by kcimkowski
KarrieRee wrote:When did the poop change before or after the insect change???? Where is the UVB ? In the tank or on top of screen --- kale to me is a NO NO --- I have heard calcium binds to it --- I would stay w/ the mustard greens collard and turnip greens ---
Karrie


Her poop changed over a month ago when she was still on Dubia Roaches, so we switched to crickets to see if it was that as well. The UVB is onto of the screen.

Re: At a dead end with diarrhea

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:16 am
by kcimkowski
claudiusx wrote:Did the vet actually do a fecal test where he/she tested for parasites?

Is she drinking in the bath or from her water bowl at all? The peppers do tend to cause loose stools as they are really high in water content. But, if fecals came back clean, it would most likely simply be from a high water diet. Which isn't necessarily bad. If she eats her salads, let her! :mrgreen:

-Brandon


Yes the vet did a fecal and said it was negative. She does not drink her bowls, but she does like to sit in them and "absorb" it so to say. I figured it was from high water that's why we stopped pretty much everything but it is still continuing, so I'm a little worried!

Re: At a dead end with diarrhea

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:20 am
by kcimkowski
Drache613 wrote:Hello,

She looks very good in the picture there.
I agree, the veggies like the peppers are relatively high in water which can cause issues
like looser stools.
I would recommend upgrading to a better UVB light also. The Zilla desert 50 is just an ok
tube UVB but not real strong. If she isn't getting strong enough UVB she could be having
some problems with absorption of her nutrients to some extent. The tube lights we mostly
recommend are the Reptisun 10 or the Arcadia D3 12% or 14% both of which are very good.
Those are the T8 tubes so you wouldn't have to change your tube bulb light fixture. There
are also stronger tube UVB lights, the T5, which are higher outputs by the same brands.
You would have to upgrade to a new T5 tube bulb fixture.
Do you have any probiotics you could add to her diet?

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie



I really appreciate this recommendation! Someone else told me my previous bulb, a coil, wasn't good so I switched immediately. I will definitely get those strip bulbs.

Do you have a recommendation for a probiotic? I have been looking into some but there are so many on the market I don't want to get something willy nilly!

Also, is it OK to be mixing a calcium +D3 with a multivitamin? I heard when given a multivitamin beardies are able to produce enough D3 naturally.

Re: At a dead end with diarrhea

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:45 am
by KarrieRee
The UVB is onto of the screen. I dont understand what this means? Meaning on top? And what is it for a UVB? I will definitely get those strip bulbs. What is a strip bulb? If you have a Reptisun T 8 UVB it needs to be inside the tank approx 6-8 inches from basking area -- if you have a T 5 it can sit on top of screen but it needs to be 10-12 inches from basking --
Karrie

Re: At a dead end with diarrhea

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:41 am
by AHBD
Hi there, I just wanted to mention that your lzards poos are probably fine, but cut out the green peppers as already mentioned. Was he also tested for atadenovirus [ though it's not likely at all that he has it ] Cut out the daily multi vitamin as well, calcium is good if used very lightly on 1 meal a day, as he grows near adult size just every other day. Multivitamin just 1-2X a week , lightly. BTW,kale is 100 % safe + nutritious and should be in every beardie's diet. It does not contain high oxalates that make it hard for a creature to absorb calcium, that was long passed on misinformation The high oxalates are found in spinach and swiss chard but not kale. Here is the USDA chart of oxalate content of many veggies, scroll down to see that kale is actually lower than most of the others .


https://www.ars.usda.gov/northeast-area ... egetables/

Re: At a dead end with diarrhea

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:58 am
by kcimkowski
AHBD wrote:Hi there, I just wanted to mention that your lzards poos are probably fine, but cut out the green peppers as already mentioned. Was he also tested for atadenovirus [ though it's not likely at all that he has it ] BTW,kale is 100 % safe + nutritious and should be in every beardie's diet. It does not contain high oxalates that make it hard for a creature to absorb calcium, that was long passed on misinformation The high oxalates are found in spinach and swiss chard but not kale. Here is the USDA chart of oxalate content of many veggies, scroll down to see that kale is actually lower than most of the others .


https://www.ars.usda.gov/northeast-area ... egetables/



I appreciate the update on kale! All info online I've found stated it wasn't too good for them. Unfortunately we decided on not testing for atadenovirus because the vet only tested to see if she was a carrier, and the test was very expensive, to only see if she was a carrier seemed not as important. I'm looking for a vet who will physically test for the virus presence instead.

Re: At a dead end with diarrhea

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:09 am
by AHBD
You're welcome. : ) Once info gets passed around enough it's hard to correct it, especially when a lot of people use one main site for the info. As for ADV testing, Tracie [ who is a mod. + commented here on your thread] , username Drache613 works with the main lab that is researching ADV and can get your beardie tested for a low price.

Re: At a dead end with diarrhea

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:55 am
by AHBD
One more thing I thought of after I re-read your initial post is that the cool end is actually too hot at 85 + F. Try to get it down to 78-80 F.

Re: At a dead end with diarrhea

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:11 pm
by kcimkowski
AHBD wrote:One more thing I thought of after I re-read your initial post is that the cool end is actually too hot at 85 + F. Try to get it down to 78-80 F.


I actually did this after some more research in the bulbs! I positioned this current fixture inside the tank instead of on top, so by doing that I had to move her other fixtures around and it is at a steady 77 for a couple hours!
Ordered a reptisun 10 strip bulb and then I will update you guys!
I appreciate you all for your help. :D

Re: At a dead end with diarrhea

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:20 pm
by AHBD
O.K, good ! All in all I think your baby is fine though. :)

Re: At a dead end with diarrhea

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:34 pm
by Drache613
Hello,

That is great you have ordered the Reptisun T5 tube then, I think it will really help out a lot
for him. I was going to say that if you would still like to test for Adeno, you can sign up on my
testing help page at:

www.thepats.info

I support a lab in Dallas, TX for the PCR test which through me is $20. If you have any questions,
just let me know.
Let us know how your dragon is doing.

Tracie