Concerned About MBD

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KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
With it flush against the wall is she able to sit directly under it? If she cant I would get it to where she can ---- being able to sit directly under it is going to help -- I am not hot on those all in one UVB / heat lamps- some work for others but when the dragon starts having issues I think then I would get rid of it and go separate for UVB and basking--- thats just my opinion
Karrie
 

KrizmKazm

Member
Original Poster
yeah, she's able to sit directly under it.

Thanks Karrie. So I should replace the SolarGlo with just a normal heat lamp? I've never used one of those before... any brands I should look for, or avoid? If I want to keep it where I currently have my SolarGlo (about 17" from bottom of tank), do I just look for a heat lamp around the same wattage, which is 160w?
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
I have a 150 watt on top of screen on my tank - its a 120 gallon-- it keeps basking at highest point around 107 or so but he can sit at lower levels for different heat areas- so he can pick his own basking temp --- all you need is a good bright white bulb that will keep your basking temps to where you need them - some use regular household bulbs -- I cant do that it doesnt cut it w/ my tank so I haft to use the Intense basking bulb from Exo Terro -- its going to be trial and error w/ your tank - I would get a 100 watt and a 150 watt -- get a Infrared temp on both and go from there -- some others on here can weigh in on that SolorGlo you have but from the way it sounds its not working --- and what I use I know works -- thats all I can tell you---- hopefully she will start to improve w/ the different lighting -- it has been way too long for her not to be eating---
Karrie
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
You don't really need to discard the Reptigo , they can lose the uvb strength after 8 months or so but still provide heat + light for a couple of years . So it can def. be used as the heat/basking bulb if you want, it's up to you.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I agree, there are a few options for your lighting.
I love the mercury vapor lights, or the "All in One" lights if they are placed correctly & are
good quality.
The Exoterra Solarglo is a good light. It isn't all that strong for a mercury vapor bulb, but, it
is nice & bright. I would recommend keeping it to use as a nice basking/heating light since
it likely does put out some UVB but also get a tube bulb to use in combination with it. They
will make a nice basking & UVB area together.

Tracie
 

KrizmKazm

Member
Original Poster
I think the lights are fine now, and it was more my set up back in January that may have had issues. Still thinking it was the SolarGlow. Maybe as she was growing in size and I started taking decorations out of the tank to accommodate her new size, possibly the distance between the SolarGlo and her basking spot became too far, and I didn't realize because I thought she was just brumating. That's the only thing I can think of.

From everything I've read about brumation, everyone just says to "let them do their thing", keep their lights on like normal, and they will go through the brumation phase. To this day, I still don't know if she ever even brumated, or if she was just sleeping for long periods of time because she didn't have the energy due to a lighting issue - but I think this is when the problems started.

Unfortunately, Cairo seems to be going downhill fast now. She pooped two days ago and her legs were shaking quite a bit while it was happening, and there was a lot of liquid - given she is only consuming Oxbow mixed with water.

Last night, I got home from work and took her outside for about 10-minutes of direct sunlight, and gave her a little more Oxbow (since the vet emphasized nutrition was the main concern right now). This time, instead of swallowing it, she lowered her head and closed her eyes (almost looks like she was passing out), then she woke back up and spit it all out. Then it started getting worse.

I definitely thought she was dying last night. She looked dehydrated (sticky saliva, loss of color in her mouth). This is very confusing, since all her food intake is mixed with a bunch of water (Oxbow). She also had a couple baths in the past week. I was able to get a little water in her mouth, but it was hard to tell how much she consumed and how much just ran out her mouth.

Her beard and tail darkened, her limbs didn't move, and she laid pretty flat. Her torso looked inflated. Her eyes kept closing and her head would lower, sometimes with her gray tongue sticking out a little. She would lay completely still for a few minutes, then her eyes would open again, her head would elevate, and she would puff her beard and smack her mouth a little (looked like she was gaping, but again very sticky). Her tongue looked like a little white ball. Then her head would lower, eyes would close, repeat. There was a time I thought she had passed, because she laid motionless with her tongue out for 10-minutes. Then, she would perk up, start smacking her mouth again, then would put her head back down.

I thought she had died. I spent all night crying next to her and apologizing while trying to comfort her in her final moments.

I spent all my money during my last vet trip, and didn't have many options left. I was pretty sure she was going to be dead by morning, so I just moved her to her dark corner in hopes I could at least get her to fall asleep before passing.

I woke up this morning and her eyes were more open and alert, the blackness was gone, and her body didn't look inflated. I'm going to run home at lunch today to check on her, and see if I can get her into the reptile specialist my vet suggested asap. I don't know if I can afford to do anything in the next week, but I will at least call them when they open for advice. I feel like she's not going to make it much longer, and not fully understanding the cause in incredibly frustrating. If she passes, don't worry, I won't get another one. There's obviously something I'm still missing after years of research.

Thanks for all your help everybody. I'm sorry.
 

Claudiusx

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
KrizmKazm":1w5718k0 said:
If she passes, don't worry, I won't get another one. There's obviously something I'm still missing after years of research.

Thanks for all your help everybody. I'm sorry.
Please dont think this way. I know it's an emotional time and you feel like it was your fault but the simple matter of fact is that most times in situations like this, it really has nothing to do with husbandry. Sometimes there is just bad genetics at play, or organ issues. One thing dragons are notorious for is hiding sickness and pain until the very end often times by the time they show symptoms, it's too late. And even the most experienced of keepers get no warning signs.

On the other hand though, sometimes they do get through things like this. They are extremely tough creatures. Your story of last night proves that. She was fighting. Any other creature likely would have given up. Dragons are tough, and she wouldn't be fighting if she didnt think she was doing it for a reason. That reason is you.

You say that you wont get another dragon because you feel you dont have enough experience. That is a load of poo to me. There are people I know with tons of experience who have horribly cared for or unloved dragons. You have something more important. You have love, compassion, and a deep seeded sense of care for your dragon. A lot of dragons go their whole lives not feeling loved or appreciated. That's not you. That's why she is fighting. You've shown her love. And you will show another dragon love too if need be. And let's not put yourself down. You have more experience and knowledge than you're giving yourself credit for

But, let's not get down and give up yet. Shes a fighter and she clearly wants to stay with you. Call the vet and ask for an estimate if you can. Perhaps explain your situation. Sometimes they will work with you on that.

We are all rooting for you two. Stay in the fight with her!

-Brandon
 

KrizmKazm

Member
Original Poster
Thanks for the support, Brandon.

I called the "pet guru" that my other vet recommended today, but he was not in the office today and I didn't want to just do nothing, so I left work and took Cairo to another exotic reptile vet.

She said she is definitely sick, and gave me some antibiotics to use over the next few weeks. She also gave me a replacement feeding mix, similar to Oxbow, but more suited for Bearded Dragons and contains protein, which she was not getting from the Oxbow.

I asked why Cairo would puff up sometimes and look like she's doing a hard swallow, and she said this could just be similar to humans clearing their throats when they are sick.

She disagreed with the previous-vets assumption about her having Nutritional Secondary Hyperparathyroidism though.

She analyzed the xray from the other place, and said it looks like there was some mineral deposits building up in one area near her stomach, but said it was not impaction, and was minor enough that it should get flushed out if she continues to poop as she has been. I wonder if this is from the calcium squirts I was giving her...

I expressed my concerns about giving her too much calcium, and she said they really can't have too much calcium, but they CAN have too much D3, which is in the calcium I've been giving her. She suggested to buy Calcium without D3, and give her that calcium a few times a week, then give her a multivitamin once a week to get her the D3. That way I'm not overdoing the D3.

They also did a blood exam, which she said all looked normal. She's also sending a sample to another lab for a more in depth look, so I'll know more soon. We're kinda waiting on those results to see if we can rule out possible parasites.

I still want to do a fecal exam, but I'm already at $700 this week :( I asked one of the office ladies at work if I could possibly get a portion of next week's check in advance, and she's looking to see what she can do. Otherwise, I can't even afford to put gas in my car next week or food in my stomach. I may have to finish the rest of that Oxbow myself (kidding of course).

All I wanted going into the vet today was at the least, a little hope. I'm glad to at least have antibiotics and more nurishing food to try now. Putting faith in the antibiotics and hoping for the best.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Oh dear, I am so sorry for the emotional trauma you are going through. I know the horrible
feeling your heart feels.
As Brandon said, sometimes, no matter what you or the vet does, genetics play a role & there
is just nothing you can do. They are so small & it's so extremely hard to always find everything
wrong with them despite diagnostics.
How is she doing this evening?

Tracie
 

Claudiusx

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
I'm so sorry for your loss I know how hard it is.

Just try to fall back on what I told you yesterday. She knew you loved her and she wanted you to know she tried. She left this world with a lot more than many beardie get in a while lifetime. Someone who truly cared and loved them.

RIP Cairo

-Brandon
 

vrenee1018

Juvie Member
I am so sorry for your loss of Cairo, KrizmKazm. I was following your thread and was hoping for a happy ending, but you did absolutely everything you could for your little one and I was just in tears saddened to read the news of your little Cairo. But like Brandon said, she was loved and she knew that. I've read deep compassion in all of your posts about her and I hope one day you DO get another beardie and show them just as much love as you had for your precious Cairo.

RIP Cairo.

Vanessa
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
I am sorry about Cairo-- we all tried to as well to get info to you to help w/ her --
:(
Karrie
 
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