HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

This forum is for urgent health concerns, where your beardie seems very ill and you need immediate help!

HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby maskedup » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:55 pm

Hi all,

I really need your help. My bearded dragon suddenly isn't active a few days ago. He suddenly doesn't wake up in the morning like he usually does.

Information:
Tank: 4ft by 2ft by 2ft
Temperature: 30-38deg C (never falls below 30C as i'm in a tropical country)
UVB: Exoterra UVB150 13W x 2
Humidity: about 50%
duration I've had him: since end march 2019 (4inches then)
Age: 3months
Length: 10inch
Last poop: the day before he didnt wake up (rule out impaction??)
Substrate: newspaper. (removed sand a month and a half ago because it injured it's right eye when digging)

My dragon suddenly didnt wake up in the morning, eyes closed. He pooped the day before and ate the day before. He had been lethargic a week before and I assumed it is because of his shedding. I i have been giving him daily soaks because of the shedding. But one morning, he suddenly didnt seem normal. His arms are tucked in constantly and when i try to spread it, it feels stiff. when i carry him, he only twitches when i tilt him sideways. Could it be impaction? He pooped regularly until that morning. I tried soaking him in water but no changes. Could it be brumating? My tank temp never falls below 30C. I really have no idea what else to do. His eyes are always closed, when i opened one of his eyes a little, it appears wet.

PS: reptiles are not legal where i'm from, so a reptile vet is not easily available. so really hope i could get some assistance here.
maskedup
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:06 am
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby ohitslexluthor » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:08 pm

Pics of your enclosure, lighting & beardie please??

I wouldn't suggest using newspaper.. I use Eco Carpet because you can clean it by simply washing it and letting it air dry, And it's made out of recycled materials.

And where are you from? I'm just curious. :?:
User avatar
ohitslexluthor
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:20 am
Location: Florida

Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby maskedup » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:48 pm

ohitslexluthor wrote:Pics of your enclosure, lighting & beardie please??

I wouldn't suggest using newspaper.. I use Eco Carpet because you can clean it by simply washing it and letting it air dry, And it's made out of recycled materials.

And where are you from? I'm just curious. :?:


I don't have pictures now, but the specs i have listed.

This is like my tank except mine has 4 bulb inputs. the middle 2 bulbs are exoterra uvb150 bulbs 13W.
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/reptile_uvb150.php
Image
Mine is bigger at 4ft long, 2ft deep and 2ft high

If i tell you, I'd have to kill you.lol
I'm somewhere in asia.
maskedup
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:06 am

Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby claudiusx » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:54 pm

Stiff muscles and twitching are signs most likely of a neurological issue.
It wouldn't be due to impaction if he only poo'd a few days earlier.

Depending on where you are living and what it's like there, it's possible that since it is illegal, that the dragons that are available aren't of the best health. Neurological issues like that can sometimes be cause by adenovirus, which unfortunately, if it's causing symptoms like this already, means it's most likely going to be fatal.

He also wouldn't be brumating at only 3 months of age.

Unfortunately, especially without a vet, I don't think there is much you can do. Even with a vet, there wouldn't be much to do :(

Your temperatures, what is the temperature of your basking SURFACE? That is the most important temperature. A juvie like yours would need a temp of 40-43c at the basking surfaces hottest point. If he doesn't like it that hot he can always move a bit further away into the range he wants.

Your uvb bulb isn't ideal either, but I'm sure it's hard to get proper products where you're at. And, I doubt it would have caused any serious issues like this after only 3 months of life.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help, but I really don't think there is much you can do besides provide proper husbandry, and hope he can pull through it.

-Brandon
User avatar
claudiusx
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 14506
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: California

Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby maskedup » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:20 pm

claudiusx wrote:Stiff muscles and twitching are signs most likely of a neurological issue.
It wouldn't be due to impaction if he only poo'd a few days earlier.

Depending on where you are living and what it's like there, it's possible that since it is illegal, that the dragons that are available aren't of the best health. Neurological issues like that can sometimes be cause by adenovirus, which unfortunately, if it's causing symptoms like this already, means it's most likely going to be fatal.

He also wouldn't be brumating at only 3 months of age.

Unfortunately, especially without a vet, I don't think there is much you can do. Even with a vet, there wouldn't be much to do :(

Your temperatures, what is the temperature of your basking SURFACE? That is the most important temperature. A juvie like yours would need a temp of 40-43c at the basking surfaces hottest point. If he doesn't like it that hot he can always move a bit further away into the range he wants.

Your uvb bulb isn't ideal either, but I'm sure it's hard to get proper products where you're at. And, I doubt it would have caused any serious issues like this after only 3 months of life.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help, but I really don't think there is much you can do besides provide proper husbandry, and hope he can pull through it.

-Brandon


I have to agree with you on the condition of the dragon. Since it is not from a reputable breeder or anything, I don't know how it was bred. The twitching im referring to is not exactly like twitching, it's more like when you carry the dragon and tilt it sideways, it will attempt to stabilise itself by twisting its body. something like that.

My basking surface is usually at least 37degC. when i get home from work, i'll switch on the heat lamp to bump it up to 40deg for a few hours. Because I'm in a tropical country, the normal temp is about 32-34degC, so when I have my heat lamp on,the tank cool side would be 35degC minimum.

I once forgot to twitch off the heat lamp when i go to work, and it got too hot, he attempted to dig in the sand (i had initially) and some got into one of his eye and injured it. so i removed the sand and only switch on the heat lamp when i get home from work. my uvb bulbs are switched on 7am to about 9pm.

Are you saying the condition is a birth defect? Is there something i can do about it? Because it came so suddenly. I thought it was brumating. I'm running out of options.

Image
maskedup
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:06 am

Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby claudiusx » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:30 pm

I didn't realize it stayed so hot in your tank either. Ideally you would want a temperture gradient that goes down to 23-25C on the cool side, so that the dragon can cool off.
Even though they are desert creatures, they can overheat and they do need to be able to cool when they want to.

It's really hard to say what it could be, he could just be overheated and dehydrated, or he could have some other illness such as ADV.

Thats why I think it's only best for you to try to provide him as proper of care as you can, and hope he pulls through it. But it does sound like it could be too hot for the little guy.
Like I said, it's all pretty much just guessing right now, and your best option is to make sure you can get everything as close to perfect as you can.

-Brandon
User avatar
claudiusx
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 14506
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: California

Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby ohitslexluthor » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:03 pm

What Brandon is saying is pretty accurate. He's very young to be experiencing that. My 1st beardie was about that size and passed away during the late night. She seized abunch and rubbed her head constantly on the bedding before laying on her back and passing away.. To this day I still don't know what caused it. If she had a disease she was hatched with or if it something else.

I always have water in my lil mans tank even though beardies don't drink that often i have it there just incase..

Just curious again; how often do you feed your beardie and what type of greens/feeders?

I really do wish you the best of luck. Your tank is beautiful and I can tell you care about him/her deeply. :( But I understand resources & vets are harder in Asia.

Please keep us updated! Best of luck.
User avatar
ohitslexluthor
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:20 am
Location: Florida

Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby maskedup » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:22 pm

ohitslexluthor wrote:What Brandon is saying is pretty accurate. He's very young to be experiencing that. My 1st beardie was about that size and passed away during the late night. She seized abunch and rubbed her head constantly on the bedding before laying on her back and passing away.. To this day I still don't know what caused it. If she had a disease she was hatched with or if it something else.

I always have water in my lil mans tank even though beardies don't drink that often i have it there just incase..

Just curious again; how often do you feed your beardie and what type of greens/feeders?

I really do wish you the best of luck. Your tank is beautiful and I can tell you care about him/her deeply. :( But I understand resources & vets are harder in Asia.

Please keep us updated! Best of luck.


I always have water in the tank and tend to check on the tautness of the skin on the body for signs of dehydration. I feed him mealworms and dubias. Sometimes he has an appetite for mealworms, sometimes he ignore mealworms and only wants dubias. So I alternate depending on what he reacts better to. Not much of greens, he seldom eats, only coriander so far.

It sucks cos i dunno what is the culprit, and it's so abrupt. I always check whether he poops everyday, which he does. His temps are at least 35degC and about 30degC at night when the uvb lights are off.

If there's any advice how i should proceed now, it would really help. Feels like he is dying. fml.
maskedup
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:06 am
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby Drache613 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:20 am

Hello,

Your tank setup looks very nice & bright.
I agree, I would try to decrease the tank temperatures just a little bit, in case he is
possibly overheating in there. Are the twitches constant or just when you pick him
up, etc?
Usually it is a neurological issue but is commonly related to calcium or other nutritional
deficiency.
Are you using the compact./coil type of UVB lights? You mentioned that his eyes are
always closed. Those smaller, compact/coil lights are really hard on their eyes & are
common culprits of eye injury & poor health.
Can you get an Arcadia D3 12% or 14% T8 or T5 tube bulb instead for a safer & better
quality UVB light for him?

Tracie
User avatar
Drache613
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 38400
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:33 pm
Location: May, Texas

Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby maskedup » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:43 am

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

Your tank setup looks very nice & bright.
I agree, I would try to decrease the tank temperatures just a little bit, in case he is
possibly overheating in there. Are the twitches constant or just when you pick him
up, etc?
Usually it is a neurological issue but is commonly related to calcium or other nutritional
deficiency.
Are you using the compact./coil type of UVB lights? You mentioned that his eyes are
always closed. Those smaller, compact/coil lights are really hard on their eyes & are
common culprits of eye injury & poor health.
Can you get an Arcadia D3 12% or 14% T8 or T5 tube bulb instead for a safer & better
quality UVB light for him?

Tracie


I have updates.
I just got back from work and soak him in water mixed with calcium and a bubbler in hopes that he will drink it.
He kinda responded well in the sense that he is responsive and started moving around.
The thing is, his right hand is stiff and stretched back. his legs seems to still be able to move, and so is his left arm. the water probably forced him to move around.
He also opened his eyes and the signs are much better than yesterday.

Big question is, why is only his front arms paralysed or stiff?
A lot of the post on bearded dragons says back legs will paralyse first, in relation to impaction.
Is this a big clue?

I have attached a link to the video of his reponse. Really hope someone can shed a light on this

https://youtu.be/0Wspv40ry0A
maskedup
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:06 am

Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby CooperDragon » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:21 am

The 13w UVB 150 is not adequate for a bearded dragon. At the very least I would replace that with a 26w version. I agree with others that moving to an even stronger bulb in this case (since your enclosure is large) is a good idea. This may be due to lack of UVB exposure, or it could be something neurological as mentioned. If it's something like muscular dystrophy, then baths may be helpful. Swimming/water therapy might help build some strength back up.
Image
User avatar
CooperDragon
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 24249
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:41 am
Location: Iowa City, IA

Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:05 am

CooperDragon wrote:The 13w UVB 150 is not adequate for a bearded dragon. At the very least I would replace that with a 26w version. I agree with others that moving to an even stronger bulb in this case (since your enclosure is large) is a good idea. This may be due to lack of UVB exposure, or it could be something neurological as mentioned. If it's something like muscular dystrophy, then baths may be helpful. Swimming/water therapy might help build some strength back up.


At the very least a 26W UVB200 in a nano-style hood . Dragon needs to be able to basking about 8 inches (20cm) from this setup.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
kingofnobbys
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 10561
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby ohitslexluthor » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:48 am

Hopefully Amazon can ship it to your location.
Greens are very important that young as well.. Feed that to him everyday along w/ feeders. I would try to get some Kale (or Collard Greens if no Kale is available) make sure stems are out because they are hard to digest. They're very easy to get at grocery stores. Judging from that pic from before he kinda looks under-weight to me in my opinion.

I really do agree w/ the others and think this might be a lighting problem.
I would do some research into that and see if you can get rid of those coil-type lights. Tube lights are better.
When being that young; Lighting is the key but too much lighting can over-heat him.

Do you have a humidity reader as well? How is it in his enclosure?
Last edited by ohitslexluthor on Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
ohitslexluthor
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:20 am
Location: Florida

Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby AHBD » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:52 am

Poor little dude, it's either one of or a combo of the problems mentioned. The uvb is too far away to benefit him unless he's constantly perched up high. Try to get an Arcadia D3 12-14 % bulb ASAP. Take him outside to sit in grass with you, a big dose of sunshine might help but keep him off concrete /asphalt that would cook him. Grassy area only. He may be developing ADV and/or it may be his genetics.. The Witblits/zero type dragons were the newest designer morph and some had lots of health problems in the beginning and are now bred by some people to make quick money, so they can have problems by being inbred.
AHBD
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 22766
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:20 am

Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby Drache613 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:34 pm

Hello,

How is your dragon doing today, any improvements at all?
I hope that he starts feeling better. I hope you are able to get another UVB light for him, too.
I think that will help him quite a bit. You could take him out in the sun but have him sit on you
for a little while to get some good light. Be watchful of overhead predators, too.

Tracie
User avatar
Drache613
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 38400
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:33 pm
Location: May, Texas
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Next

Return to Beardie ER

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot]