Warning watch out for gastric neuroendocrine carcinomas (GNT

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THier220

Member
We lost our Taz this week to GNT.

He was a 10 month old 380gram boy when we noticed something was wrong.
It started with gradual loss of appetite, then he started to show signs of stress, (dark beard). This was over a 2 week period, then all of a sudden, he got bulging eyes. We took him to the vet, vet did blood work, which she sent to a lab in Ohio which she said was the most complete work up. She put Taz on an antibiotic until results were returned, weekend delayed it a couple of days. Tuesday, I had given him his soak, and gave then anti biotic, which partway through he stopped fighting me. I thought he just gave in and decide to accept the meds. Horror overtook me as he went limp, he went in container as I walked out my door dialing the vet. We are lucky we have a great exotic vet a couple miles away. She and a tech met me in the lobby, as I opened the container Taz was much better, vet did a quick check, and gave him back to me as she went to attend to her patient she was working on. Taz just chilled on my chest like he always did, he was still very black beard, but was in no immediate danger. Vet came back to me in less than 10 mins, tablet in hand. As she went over the labs, there was some slight end of ranges,, but nothing earth shattering,,, until,,,, glucose level was 480.
I thought, "ok I have a diabetic dragon" then she broke the news dragons dont get diabetes. This, with loss of appetite, bulging eyes, and indication of some kidney issues, lead her to suspect GNT. (Basically a tumor in his stomach, over a rapidly spreading cancer) She said it is not common, (she had seen less than 10 cases in 10 years) but was most common in adolescents. She told me she could try surgery, but results were at best,, questionable. She would try if we wanted. I asked her professional and personal recommendation. She said if it were her pet she'd put him down. This is where my girlfriend walked in. We decided NOT to make him suffer. We had him put to sleep. I have NEVER left a pet alone when ths decision was made. Dogs, cats, ferrets are quick, first shot they just go to sleep, then the vet gives the shot that stops life. With a beardie, although not painful, it was a 10 minute process, she warned us it was slow, but no way we were leaving Taz alone. He passed peacefully. I tried to hold it together, luckily the office had closed while we were in back.

The vet told us we had caught it early, as usually she saw glucose levels well above 1000 by the time the animals got to her.

Sorry to run on, just if mysteriously your dragon stops eating, shows stress signs, has bulging eyes, and starts vomiting ( Taz had only vomited that day) have your vet check for GNT, stomach tumors.

Thanks for listening.
 

Claudiusx

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Moderator
Hey Tom,

Thanks for sharing your story. Hopefully Tracie will be able to chime in later tonight, she's very knowledgeable about this stuff.

I'm glad you stayed with him for his final moments.
I read something a few months back that completely broke my heart. It was about a vet describing the absolute worst thing in the world. When an animal is being euthanized and the owners don't want to be in the room while it happens, the vet described how the animal is always frantically searching the room looking for it's family in it's last moments on this earth, scared and alone. Gets me emotional just typing that out. So I'm very glad you stayed with him, he went knowing he was loved.

-Brandon
 

THier220

Member
Original Poster
claudiusx":1wjmnwg2 said:
Hey Tom,

Thanks for sharing your story. Hopefully Tracie will be able to chime in later tonight, she's very knowledgeable about this stuff.

I'm glad you stayed with him for his final moments.
I read something a few months back that completely broke my heart. It was about a vet describing the absolute worst thing in the world. When an animal is being euthanized and the owners don't want to be in the room while it happens, the vet described how the animal is always frantically searching the room looking for it's family in it's last moments on this earth, scared and alone. Gets me emotional just typing that out. So I'm very glad you stayed with him, he went knowing he was loved.

-Brandon

I will NEVER leave a pet alone,,, as much a it hurts,, I'm there. With dogs, as they do pass, last breathes are gasping, dramatic, the animal feels nothing. Taz just slowly went to sleep. Vet came in at 5 mins, he still had a heart beat, at 10 mins it was very very weak, he has limp and gone. Very peaceful.
 

CooperDragon

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This is unfortunately somewhat widespread. My guess is that it's due to genetic problems with sloppy breeding practices. My Cooper died from the same thing in 2014. The glucose spike is indeed the giveaway. In Cooper's case, he showed a side effect of gout for about a year before he died (and was being treated for that). Did you see any similar signs with Taz? The bulging eyes may have been a renal response too. This is rough stuff and I wish there was a cure or even a treatment for it. I think you saved him from quite a bit of suffering in this case. :(
 

Claudiusx

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
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CooperDragon":1betc9ge said:
This is unfortunately somewhat widespread. My guess is that it's due to genetic problems with sloppy breeding practices. My Cooper died from the same thing in 2014. The glucose spike is indeed the giveaway. In Cooper's case, he showed a side effect of gout for about a year before he died (and was being treated for that). Did you see any similar signs with Taz? The bulging eyes may have been a renal response too. This is rough stuff and I wish there was a cure or even a treatment for it. I think you saved him from quite a bit of suffering in this case. :(
I'm sorry I didn't know that about Cooper. :(

-Brandon
 

THier220

Member
Original Poster
CooperDragon":1u4grr6c said:
This is unfortunately somewhat widespread. My guess is that it's due to genetic problems with sloppy breeding practices. My Cooper died from the same thing in 2014. The glucose spike is indeed the giveaway. In Cooper's case, he showed a side effect of gout for about a year before he died (and was being treated for that). Did you see any similar signs with Taz? The bulging eyes may have been a renal response too. This is rough stuff and I wish there was a cure or even a treatment for it. I think you saved him from quite a bit of suffering in this case. :(

The bulging eyes were most likely kidney, "renal" problems. Gout? Dunno,

Thanks for the support, My personal opinion is I'll never make a pet suffer to try to keep it around for me.
 

vrenee1018

Juvie Member
I am so sorry for your loss! I got teary eyed just reading and couldn't fathom going through it with my Tampico. I'm so glad you with Taz in his final moments and do hope that you intend on getting a dragon in the near future, as it's very clear that you and your GF care deeply for animals! Thoughts go out to you and your little family!!!

claudiusx":17yaplch said:
I read something a few months back that completely broke my heart. It was about a vet describing the absolute worst thing in the world. When an animal is being euthanized and the owners don't want to be in the room while it happens, the vet described how the animal is always frantically searching the room looking for it's family in it's last moments on this earth, scared and alone.

I've read that same thing before and it just broke my heart! I've only had to endure the pain of staying with two pups as they were being put down and I never want to go through that heartache again, but will no matter what if it comes down to one of the animals needing it. So so heartbreaking to think of those who do not stay with their animals.
 

THier220

Member
Original Poster
vrenee1018":1f5aqf0d said:
I am so sorry for your loss! I got teary eyed just reading and couldn't fathom going through it with my Tampico. I'm so glad you with Taz in his final moments and do hope that you intend on getting a dragon in the near future, as it's very clear that you and your GF care deeply for animals! Thoughts go out to you and your little family!!!

claudiusx":1f5aqf0d said:
I read something a few months back that completely broke my heart. It was about a vet describing the absolute worst thing in the world. When an animal is being euthanized and the owners don't want to be in the room while it happens, the vet described how the animal is always frantically searching the room looking for it's family in it's last moments on this earth, scared and alone.

I've read that same thing before and it just broke my heart! I've only had to endure the pain of staying with two pups as they were being put down and I never want to go through that heartache again, but will no matter what if it comes down to one of the animals needing it. So so heartbreaking to think of those who do not stay with their animals.

Thanks, we still have our Kira, and found a BEAUTIFUL red tiger down by DC. He will be shipped out over night Monday by a reptile specialist shipping company, to be here by 10:30 am Tuesday. My biggest "problem" is all we have is .75" - 1" dubias. Have an order of .25" on the way as well.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Heartbreaking! :cry: I am so sorry about Taz, I know the pain & it's horrible.
I agree, breeding has gotten really bad in the last 10 years which is causing a lot of trouble
with their health.
I am also finding that a lot of insects that are commercially bred & gutloaded are being fed
genetically modified foods which do cause cancer. I am not sure of your feeding of your
insects, etc, but things like this are starting to greatly affect humans. So you can only just
imagine what it is doing to our smaller animal beings, too.
I am so sorry for your loss.

Tracie
 

THier220

Member
Original Poster
Drache613":21wzjnvy said:
Hello,

Heartbreaking! :cry: I am so sorry about Taz, I know the pain & it's horrible.
I agree, breeding has gotten really bad in the last 10 years which is causing a lot of trouble
with their health.
I am also finding that a lot of insects that are commercially bred & gutloaded are being fed
genetically modified foods which do cause cancer. I am not sure of your feeding of your
insects, etc, but things like this are starting to greatly affect humans. So you can only just
imagine what it is doing to our smaller animal beings, too.
I am so sorry for your loss.

Tracie

Hey Tracie,

Thanks for your response.

We are noobs to dragons. About a year.

Our first was a Petsmart purchase, horrible experience. He never ate "right" the kept telling us he had to get used to his environment. He eventually passed. I actually felt more horrible about we ignored our gut feeling and trusted the so called experts at petsmart.

We got Taz from a small pet store recommended in the area. Taz did GREAT, maybe too great. He has 380+ grams at 9 months. Vet said he was a bi overweight, not obese, but he obviously like to eat. We changed nothing on what we provided as the shop sad we did everything right. Our only change was switching to dubias in January, crickets stank too much, and as we bought larger, they started to chirp, imagine that. Vet said there was no way to have found out Taz had GNT until he was symptomatic.

Kira, we got at Repticon, from a local breeder. Her setup is identical to Taz's.

We seem to battle at times about, "my turn to hold the dragon" so we found a beautiful red tiger just a little to far to round trip, so he is being shipped Monday for a Tuesday am arrival.

We get our dubias from a local bug breeder, so I would hope they were raised properly. I have a dubia colony that seems to be reproducing, we have a small percentage of small dubias. We have decided to try to promote the colony to reproduce, providing heat, and changing setup from storage of bugs, to a better setup, heat, vertical egg crate ect to promote reproduction.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

That is so hard, very unfortunate that your first one had such a rough start in life. It definitely wasn't
your fault.
It sure sounds like Taz had done really well, too. I am so sorry that he had such bad luck. I wish
I could say exactly what caused it, maybe environmental, food, or just genetics, it is virtually
impossible to know for sure.
I hope your dubia colony does well for you. It sounds like they are doing good thus far!
Let us know if you need help on your new dragon.

Tracie
 
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