Eye problem-Vet says lipid??

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Eye problem-Vet says lipid??

Postby DunesMom » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:55 am

Hi all, I've been worried sick about my sons Beardie Ember. She is 3 years old, has always been healthy. 5 days ago I noticed she was closing her left eye more than usual. She would still open it, and when she did I could see the eye and it was normal. I let this continue for 2 days because she'd just shed and its normal for her to be irritated with the shed around her eyes, un[Click image to enlarge]
til its all off. Plus, I'd seen her eye on occasion and it was fine. But the third day she was closing it all the time and it seemed off. I could see white substance along the closed lid and not knowing what it was: a foriegn object, infection/pus, or growth, I made an appointment with the vet. Plus, she was lethargic, not eating from her bowl. But DID allow me to hand feed her some steamed squash. Our normal vet no longer takes reptiles. I was able to find another vet through friends suggestions and get her in that day (day 3 at 2:30pm). The vet took her in the back to open the lid and do a corneal stain/scratch test. Returned and said no scratch, that Ember had a fatty growth called a lipid. It would not go away, but could hopefully be controlled with diet. She said Ember was really fatty, and gave instructions to feed vegetables, and 2 or 3 crickets 2x a week for a while. Today is day 5 and the eye seems much worse. She keeps it closed most of the time. When it does open it looks as you see in the pictures. She is my son's...but with three boys and a husband...we are the only 2 girls in the house! It seems to be bulging out more then the other eye? Can the lipid push her eye out of the orbital socket? She Rxd drops 2x a day (Flurbiprofin sodium solution). I have ?'s about brumation too...but that can wait. She seems to be exhibiting signs of it but I can't discern if it's due to her eye changes/sheding/change in habitat or brumating for the first time.

My many questions:

Anyone ever see this? Can a lipid grow that fast? I can not find any info on lipid growth in Beardies.

Could new vet be wrong? Could it be a foreign object stuck? or anything else?

We've always fed her vegetables every day, 3-4 meal worms every other day. Would this really constitute a high fat diet? in the summer she will get a treat of fresh fruit or edible flowers on occasion.

I'm happy to answer any questions about her habitat/etc. Thank you for any help you can give!!! [Click image to enlarge]
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DunesMom
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Re: Eye problem-Vet says lipid??

Postby AHBD » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:35 pm

Hi there, sorry that your girl is having this trouble. That may or may not be a lipid deposit, there may be other conditions that could cause it but the vet is going by their presumptions. In humans that could be heriditary or caused by thyroid or kidney problems as well as a high fat diet causing high cholesterol. That's why the vet is recommending a diet that's as low fat as possible . That may or may not help. Ember doesn't look fat, maybe a tiny bit but I wouldn't think it would be enough to cause her to have high lipid levels. Still, a low fat diet is a precaution to take, so try to cut out the mealworms [ or do you mean superworms ? ] and offer crickets or dubia roaches instead. Give her plenty of veggies, try greens like turnip, mustard, collards, kale, dandelion, endive.

If you want to try another eye ointment get some raw, unpasteurized honey. Mix a tiny bit of warm water [ about 2 parts water, 1 part honey ] and put that directly in her eye. If there's an infection it can clear it up. I don't think the lipids could build up quite as fast as you described so maybe there's a slight infection to clear up. I used honey on 2 of my dragons in the past that had eye problems and it cleared them up quickly.
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Re: Eye problem-Vet says lipid??

Postby DunesMom » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:24 pm

AHBD wrote:Hi there, sorry that your girl is having this trouble. That may or may not be a lipid deposit, there may be other conditions that could cause it but the vet is going by their presumptions. In humans that could be heriditary or caused by thyroid or kidney problems as well as a high fat diet causing high cholesterol. That's why the vet is recommending a diet that's as low fat as possible . That may or may not help. Ember doesn't look fat, maybe a tiny bit but I wouldn't think it would be enough to cause her to have high lipid levels. Still, a low fat diet is a precaution to take, so try to cut out the mealworms [ or do you mean superworms ? ] and offer crickets or dubia roaches instead. Give her plenty of veggies, try greens like turnip, mustard, collards, kale, dandelion, endive.

If you want to try another eye ointment get some raw, unpasteurized honey. Mix a tiny bit of warm water [ about 2 parts water, 1 part honey ] and put that directly in her eye. If there's an infection it can clear it up. I don't think the lipids could build up quite as fast as you described so maybe there's a slight infection to clear up. I used honey on 2 of my dragons in the past that had eye problems and it cleared them up quickly.


Thank you for the reply. Yes, just mealworms. She ate crickets the first 2 years, then we switched to meal worms. We give her dandelion greens, mustard greens, baby kale, spring lettuces for the water content, and she loves arugula and parsley! For veg, we chop up whatever we have (we eat a lot of veggies) but I also cut up a squash and sweet potatoes, steam them, then freeze. So we pull out a few cubes of this from freezer every other day so she has always has squash. I'm an organic practicing beekeep, so I also swear by the benefits of honey. I will give her some to see if that helps. If we had unlimited budget I would take her for a second opinion. But reptile vets are scarce here, and the last visit was $157. So...I'm hoping to get some info here to at least decide on course of action. What should I ask when calling vets that say they take reptiles? certification? or? thanks again.
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Re: Eye problem-Vet says lipid??

Postby AHBD » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:02 pm

Her diet sounds excellent as far as the huge amount of veggies she gets ! And that's great that you raise your own honey, many people are just learning how good it works as an antimicrobial. Mix it like I mentioned in my other post and put it right in her eye.
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Re: Eye problem-Vet says lipid??

Postby Drache613 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:01 am

Hello,

I don't think this would be a lipid deposit either.
I agree, that is excellent you raise honey! Definitely try the honey in her eye, it is very
effective.
Ember is a very pretty girl. A lower fat diet would be a good idea, but not sure that is the
issue. Did he do a blood test on her?
How active is she?

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie
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Re: Eye problem-Vet says lipid??

Postby DunesMom » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:21 pm

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

I don't think this would be a lipid deposit either.
I agree, that is excellent you raise honey! Definitely try the honey in her eye, it is very
effective.
Ember is a very pretty girl. A lower fat diet would be a good idea, but not sure that is the
issue. Did he do a blood test on her?
How active is she?

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie


Thanks so much for checking in. I've been spending a lot of time just watching her, and trying to figure out what is going on. Im looking for anything. I double checked the temps all over her cage.
We just made her a new enclosure at Christmas. It was not as warm as it should have been. But I fixed it these past two days. It WAS 90-105 in her basking spot but she wasn't going to it unless I put her there. Her ambient temp was 70-75 and would get to 60 at night. Since she was preferring to stay away from her basking spot she was in the lower temps. I reinstalled her red light to raise the ambient temp-now most of her cage is 85-90. 98 under the red lamp, and 112 under the basking light. She has two colder areas under shelter one is 74, the other 78. i leave the red lamp on over night. She's been very lethargic, even before the eye issue. Which made me recheck the temps. I asked the vet about brumation and she dismissed it. Ember has never brumated before but I figured since she's young maybe she felt the urge to this year, or the lower temps brought it on. I will give an example: I wanted to give her a bath and she was sleeping. I woke her, carried her to the sink, and she fell back asleep in my hands. I had to hold her to keep her head up since she was completely limp! But since the vet said not brumating-then of course I started worrying that she's dying not sleeping : ( ugh. but then at the end of the bath, after a tummy massage, she woke right up and was active! So I put her back in her basking spot. She stayed there awake/alert/head up for 20 mins and then climbed down to the 98 degree area under the red lamp and pancaked till morning. In the morning she is SOUND asleep. Not eating unless I hand feed to interest her. Has not pooped since before vet. Given her baths every other day. Hand fed mashed squash to try to initiate a BM. She will not open that eye now and the swelling in the orbital socket area seems to have gone down. With her eye closed on that side, it now matches the other side. It seems like it bothers her a bit, not that I'd know pain from irritation in dragon speak...but I read it as more of an irritation that she can't use that eye, and maybe the skin around it is bothering her. I've watched her face scoot along the floor (slate tile) which seems like she is trying to rub it. I've taken out anything remotely sharp at her height until she gets the hang of navigating with one eye. Any ideas?
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Re: Eye problem-Vet says lipid??

Postby Drache613 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:40 pm

Hello,

Do you think she can see out of the eye, or is it limited? Are you using saline solution in it to
help? You could also consider an eye ointment, like terramycin, to help in case there is some
infection going on there. In case she has limited sight in that eye, just keep her tank & decor the
same so that she can get used to things being in the same area as it always is.
Are you using a red lamp for basking or just for secondary heating? It is recommended to use a
bright white light for basking to help activate or stimulate activity. It also helps to protect the eyes
from the UVB emissions also.
I hope she is doing well, overall. The temperatures sound better. Perhaps she was not quite warm
enough & was getting too cool at night.
Let us know how she is doing!

Tracie
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Re: Eye problem-Vet says lipid??

Postby DunesMom » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:33 pm

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

Do you think she can see out of the eye, or is it limited? Are you using saline solution in it to
help? You could also consider an eye ointment, like terramycin, to help in case there is some
infection going on there.
I don't think she can see out of the left eye, but she seems to prefer to be able to open it. What I "thought" was the lipid deposit the Vet was speaking of was just some dead cell tissue along the lid-it wiped away tonight in the bath? So what exactly IS the lipid deposit? Is it the actual state of the eyeball itself? Darkened, not clear? That is what a lipid deposit would do to an eye ball? To me it looks like the eyeball sustained some sort of injury, or something behind the eye caused it harm? Its almost as if the iris is blown? I can see a pupil, although larger, in that darkness. The Vet Rx'd (Flurbiprofin sodium solution) 2x a day.

In case she has limited sight in that eye, just keep her tank & decor the
same so that she can get used to things being in the same area as it always is. she has only been in the new enclosure a month, so it is all still fairly new : (

Are you using a red lamp for basking or just for secondary heating? Just secondary, to augment the ambient temps and provide night warmth. Right now she is preferring to sleep under this red lamp than in hide.

It is recommended to use a
bright white light for basking to help activate or stimulate activ[color=#800080]ity. It also helps to protect the eyes
from the UVB emissions also.
[/color]Yes Ma'am that is what she has.

I hope she is doing well, overall. The temperatures sound better. Perhaps she was not quite warm
enough & was getting too cool at night.
Let us know how she is doing!

Can you suggest a source for me to see pictures of lipids present in eyes? I can't find anything. Thanks again for checking in, it means a lot. She slept till noon, when I finally roused her, offered food and she ate. She was up and alert, then went back to sleep. Slept till I roused her at 5, she woke up fully and was alert and active. Took a bath, swam, basked, and went back to sleep.

Tracie
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Re: Eye problem-Vet says lipid??

Postby Drache613 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:20 pm

Hello,

How is your girl doing? I will try to do more research on this topic, because I definitely haven't
really heard much about it. It would just be a type of deposit probably along the lining of the
lid, itself.
They do sometimes scratch their eye when shedding, with a nail, or a sharp object in their tank.
Has it improved any at all, with the eye solution for her? You don't think she can see out of her
eye at all?
Well, that is ok, if she wants to sleep under a light, if it isn't disturbing her sleep pattern any. You
could consider a ceramic heat emitter for nighttime heating if she wants or needs some heating.
That's good to hear you have a nice bright white light for her, for the basking light. Those are the
best for them.
At least she is alert & eating, so hopefully she isn't feeling too badly then. Did she enjoy her bath
time? Do keep us posted on her. I will try to see if I can find anything on the subject in my medical
books for you.

Tracie
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Re: Eye problem-Vet says lipid??

Postby DunesMom » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:50 pm

Got some pretty clear pictures yesterday. It's really weird, it seems to change daily. One day the whole eye will be really dark and murky, where you can't even really make out a pupil. Then in these pictures from yesterday you see the iris and pupil clearly with the lipid floating like a cataract.
Today I could see the pupil but it seemed as though the eye was not tracking the same as the other eye. I included the last picture because I cracks me up how they seem to just pass out mid action sometimes :lol: [Click image to enlarge]
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