Giving Alpurinal for Gout during Brumation

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Hi. I think that you Drache613 gave me some info when I first found out my dragon had Gout. Well, Roxy is now over 1 year old, she is on the maximum dose of Alpurinal. I tried to back off to see if she could go without it, and her limbs swelled like crazy. So, right now I am completely stressing because she is acting like she wants to brumate. She went off food almost two weeks ago, pooped more frequently... normal poop which is pretty runny- I have had her stool checked multiple times and it has always been good- quit wanting to sit under her mercury lamp basking and now sits on her rock under the heat lamp. She does want to snuggle and sleep more often, but wakes up everyday and crawls from under her rock to come out and sit under her heat lamp. She LOVES to eat, but of course right now she just looks at the food like she wants it, then licks her lips and that is it. I am continuing her Alpurinal and her feet/toes have almost returned to their normal “for Roxy” size. Do you have any info on giving the Alpurinal even while she is “brumating”?
I do see my exotic vet on Tuesday, but the gout/Alpurinal thing in beardies is fairly new for him.
Thank you for any help or advice you can offer?
 

CooperDragon

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I'm guessing here - if she does slow her system down for brumation, then she may not need the medication for a little while since her kidneys aren't processing as much. Since she's still eating a bit though and since her joints swelled up without the meds, I'd keep her on them as much as possible. Certainly double check with your vet but for now I'd keep her on them and if she does go to sleep for brumation (or really slow down a lot and stop eating almost completely) then it would be tougher to give her the meds and I'd watch her closely without them for a bit.
 

Drache613

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Hello,

Poor Roxy, I remember her. How is she doing, do you have any updated pictures?
This type of scenario is tough because you want to let them brumate, but, if they are down
for too long without their medication they will relapse.
The best recommendation I can give is to let her sleep or rest but try to get her medications
into her at least 3-4 times per week. The days that she gets the allopurinol, she will need to
bask at optimal temperatures for several hours to be sure her body metabolizes it.
At the moment, how often are you giving her the allopurinol? I am happy to hear that she is
doing well overall!

Tracie
 

RockyTurner

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Cooper Dragon, thank you for your thoughts. I was thinking the same thing about her needing less Alpurinal if her kidneys are not having to process. I will feel better when the extra swelling is gone. I will give an update on the vets thoughts after the appointment Tuesday.?
 

RockyTurner

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Tracie, thank you for helping from the beginning with this. Roxy is definitely a special girl. I am hoping that she won’t brumate long because she is really fighting it. She is super social and I think that she is afraid she will miss something.
I am glad you mentioned making sure that she gets the UVB since she is taking her medicine. I was wondering about her ability to process it.
Of course I have pics?
98215-5112499190.jpg
98215-5598303070.jpg
 

RockyTurner

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I forgot to answer your question about dose schedule.
I give her .78 ml Alpurinal once a day. My vet told me that this is the maximum dose for a bearded dragon regardless of weight. I have still been giving it to her daily due to the extra swelling that she has. I really try to manage her gout by limiting her protein intake.
 

Drache613

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Hello,

Oh do you mean 0.78ml? I ask because 7.8ml is quite a bit!
She looks alert to me, so that is great to see. Has her swelling gone down quite a bit then,
over time? Limiting her protein helps, absolutely. It is hard making sure she gets adequate
greens & fluids I realize when she is slown down. Do the best you can with her.
Keep us posted on her.

Tracie
 

RockyTurner

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Yes, I did mean .78. I changed it in case someone else sees that information regarding Alpurinal? the swelling seems to fluxuate. When she does swell, it takes a while to get it back down. Something that really seems to help is mixing the dark cherry extract and water in Oxbow’s Critical Care. My definite go to when she doesn’t eat enough greens.
I will let you know what the vet has to say. Thank you again, Tracie?
 

CooperDragon

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If you're using critical care you can sub that with your own mix if you want to. It's a bit cheaper and you can control what's in it. I used to blend different greens along with things like squash, green beans, bell pepper, etc in a blender with some water, then run it through a sieve and through a clean dish cloth to get the consistency of baby food. I'd store that in a jar in the fridge and it worked just like baby food but formulated for a balanced vegetable diet for a sick dragon. Of course you don't need to switch to this but it's something to consider as an option if you wish.
 

RockyTurner

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Cooper Dragon, thank you so much for that idea. I really like feeding my kids the organic fresh greens, so that would make me happy knowing that she is still getting the best?
 

Drache613

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Hello,

Great, I was hoping it was a misprint, but, I kind of figured. I just wanted to double check. LOL
How is she doing today? The black cherry juice extract is very well tolerated & works really
great, also.
Keep us posted on everything.

Tracie
 

RockyTurner

Member
Original Poster
Update on Roxy. I guess she isn’t going to brumate after all. She continues to come out every morning to sun. She is still pretty swollen on her little ankles. I am giving the Alpurinal, warm soaks, and trying to not give any crickets for a few days. I am pretty worried since I am at her maximum dose. Haw rarely do you think I could get away with feeding the insects? I am going to try to find bee pollen to encourage her to start eating her greens again. She has done so well for so long, I just feel like she is having some discomfort so I am really worried?
I did some research on gout last night, and it does say that that gout does appear as an attack and then subsides. I am praying this will be the case. I also read one of your threads, Tracie, from 2011 and saw that you recommended spring greens and dandelions instead of collards and mustards.... changing that right away. I am also going to try the diluted cranberry juice.
 

Drache613

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Hello,

Well, Roxy doesn't know what she wants, does she? At least she comes out to bask daily,
even if she doesn't spend all day basking.
How many feeders weekly do you give her?
Sure, I can't believe you found a thread from that long ago! LOL
Yes, the spring greens, minus the spinach, (just take it out, but you can eat it! LOL) has less
oxalates than mustard or collard greens. Dandelion greens are very good. They help with
water retention & potassium levels. Are you using any black or tart cherry extract right now?
You can use that along with the cranberry juice daily as well, diluted with the meds or with the
water you give.
They can definitely have flareups, absolutely.
How old are the meds you have that you are using for her? What is the strength of them & her
dose? She is on 20mg/kg, correct?
Oh, can you check the label on the critical care & let me know the ingredients? Thanks.
Keep us posted on her!

Tracie
 

RockyTurner

Member
Original Poster
So, she is still not back to her chipper self and still not wanting to walk much on those swollen feet, but the swelling is going down some. Since late last week she has only eaten the Critical Care mixture which I squirt onto her snout. I usually give her 3-5 crickets a day... she would love more. She normally enjoys eating her veggies and fruit, but I guess she has not been wanting to eat because of the pain. I did start giving her Metacam for pain and swelling three days ago. She gets .1 ml once a day.
The Allopurinol is actually the 10mg/ml suspension. Stronger would be better so I had to give less... she does not like it.
The Critical Care is by Oxbow. It is the natural apple and banana flavor “a nutritional complete, assist feeding formula for herbivores.” The main ingredients are Timothy grass meal, soybean hulls, soybean meal, wheat germ, xanthan gum, calcium chloride, salt, ...
She is loving her soaks. I was trying to keep her cage at 80 at night, but a lot of the gout research I studied showed cold compress worked to relieve pain, so I have started leaving her heat lamp off at night, making the temp 70-71*. I don’t know if this is best, just trying everything I can for my girl.
What would you think of giving her A few hornworms per week as her protein intake? They only have 9-10 grams which is even lower than crickets. I was also thinking about ordering Phoenix worms because of their low protein.?.?
 

Drache613

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Hello,

I hope her swelling goes down more, that's rough when they have that much swelling because
they have pain along with it.
How long will she be on the Metacam for? I hope that helps out but should only be given for
short term.
I am sure she would like more crickets but you have to keep her protein down some. I would
limit the critical care because the soybean byproducts are most likely genetically modified.
Most of the soybeans in this country are genetically modified & are not healthy for humans or
for animals. GMO's can cause organ issues & other health problems, too. Unless it states that
it is organic, then it will be modified.
I have never used cold compresses before, for gout. You can let her cool down overnight, that
will be fine. I wouldn't go below 70 or what it is now.
Hornworms, & phoenix worms are both good for a lower protein feeder. Variety is always very
helpful.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie
 
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