Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia - RIP

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Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia - RIP

Postby bayoupig5 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:24 am

As some of you may know...Stinky my 6 year old male was diagnosed with pneumonia on November 28, 2018. He was given a poor prognosis at that time, and x-rays had confirmed pneumonia. Over the last month, there had been some pretty scary days, but he seemed to be improving over time. Recently, he seemed to breathing quite normally, with some popping usually after a warm bath. I have been swabbing his mouth to clear any seen mucus. He has been on Ceftazadime the whole time.

I had him in for a check up, and on examination Stinky looked good. His color was great, he gained weight. His breathing was not bad initially. That was until she tried to look down his throat. She wanted to see if maybe anything was caught there as she thought she spotted something. But the little guy was not having it, after fighting with a tongue depressor, which caused a little mouth bleeding on swabbing, and ten minutes of trying to look, and several almost bite the vet incidents. She gave up. However, after this, he was very black. started to gag cough, and huff more constantly, with more crackles than I had heard since the very beginning. And his breathing rate increased as well as being heavier. (As what usually happens when a dragon is stressed or angry).

I took him home, put him in his viv, and he remained black all evening. His breathing was quite heavy still. I though that being back at home in his viv would calm him down. I checked on him this morning and again he was very black. I bathed him, he was still very black. He seemed to have calmed his breathing somewhat, I did not hear coughs or gags. But he is popping/crackling again and his breathing is heavy at times. I placed him back in his very warm viv, and he is again trying to get fully upright into a vertical position, just like he was a month ago. Which tells me his breathing is for some reason is worse.

So I placed towels on his basking area, so he can get as vertical as possible. I covered his tank with a towel to give him some privacy, hoping to reduce his stress.

Any thoughts? I am mostly worried about him being shades of black, as even when he was super ill in the beginning, this never happened. I have to keep him on Ceft, obviously, and he get an injection tomorrow.

However, I have finally got my F10, so can I nebulize while he is on the Ceft? Any help, advice, thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by bayoupig5 on Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia

Postby AHBD » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:24 am

Wow, that's too bad ! The vet should never have forced it like that, causing pain and severe stress. I guess only time will tell but he should get better once he calms down more. It's really mind boggling that the vet thought such extreme rough handling to try to peer down his throat was worth this outcome.
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Re: Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia

Postby bayoupig5 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:37 am

Yeah...worst part was after all of this, she could not get a good look. I offered him some veggies, which he snubbed his nose at, but followed up with an offering of a super which he ate ASAP. His beard is varying shades of black....deep, deep, black to grey and black. He does not seem to be in distress otherwise, his breathing has calmed, he is not open gaping, he is not coughing, gagging. He is alert, is not lethargic. I am thinking he maybe got a mouth injury to the right side. I can usually pull his lip down to swab the mucus, and he has not let me do this today (he wriggles away). So I am assuming he may have some mouth pain, causing the black beard.

I do not have a of of choice with vets here. There is this one, and another who only works two variable days per week. This vet is not in again until Thursday, so I hope this resolves soon.

If this is pain, is there anything I can give him?
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Re: Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia

Postby AHBD » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:45 am

His eating [ a fave superworm ] is a GOOD sign, means the pain is not too bad + should continue to lessen. He was probably in more pain when it happened but is much more terrified now than before because of the experience and may be reluctant to open up or feel comfortable with anyone trying to open his mouth now.
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Re: Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia

Postby bayoupig5 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:21 pm

Still black, but still seems to be fairly comfortable. I will just have to wait it out at this point. Hopefully he will ease up sooner rather than later. He worries me.
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Re: Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia

Postby Drache613 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:27 pm

Hello,

Wow, that is terrible, poor thing!
He definitely did not like having anything in his mouth like that. I agree, it does sound like a
mouth injury of some sort. At least he did eat but if it hurts him some that would be the reason
for the black bearding right now.
I hope he calms down more now & that it didn't make his respiratory issues worse. Nebulizing
should help quite a bit for him. When are you going to start that?

Tracie
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Re: Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia

Postby bayoupig5 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:20 am

Hello Tracie, his respiratory symptoms are worse, he was still black well into the night with some coughing now. I will look at him this morning, but I am not hopeful for much change.

UPDATE:

I have started nebulizing with F10 SC this morning for 30 minutes. 25 min running and 5 sitting. I mixed a solution of 4 ml to 1 litre of distilled water. He still remains black bearded. I have little hope of him actually making it. Strangely though, he is not coughing or doing a lot of open mouth breathing today. He is breathing quite heavily still. He slept completely vertical.

He is moving about his viv, and ate 3 supers, so there is still some get go in him as of now. I just cannot believe the full circle of events here. He was doing so well, pre-vet visit. Now sure how this stressful event had lead to this decline.

The vet is not in again until January 3rd. Not that I believe there is anymore they can do at this point. He has already been on Ceft for a month. I have called the vet to ask them about possible Ceft, nebulization instead of injection but am still waiting to hear.

At this point my hands are tied, no reptile vets in until Jan 3 and I doubt we can do anything further regardless.
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Re: Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia

Postby bayoupig5 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:25 am

Not so great....poor guy. I feel so utterly helpless. I have started nebulizing with F10 on December 31st. Two treatments at 20 minutes with nebulizer running and 5 minutes off, just so he can breathe the rest. He is still black bearded, so not great at all. He ate some veg slurry yesterday morning 3 mls, but did not want to eat anything in the evening, including offered supers. He was so noticeably uncomfortable last night, I was not sure I was going to wake up to a live dragon. He got into a completely vertical stance, as high as he could, and was breathing heavy with beard puffing and gulping just before lights out. It is heart-breaking to watch. However, he made it through another evening.

I called the vet to make another follow up appointment yesterday, but after hearing about his overall state, said she did not want to see him and asked that I not bring him in. She felt this would be too much stress for him. So instead she prescribed him a pain killer (Tramadol), and added the Metronidazole again. He got Metro and Tramadol yesterday. He got his Ceft IM again this am, which always causes him stress and discomfort. But I am afraid all this may not be working. As of this morning, he still refused his supers. I have left him some fresh salad, but am doubtful he will eat it as he has not gone for greens at all since Sunday. I am hoping he will want to eat something soon, but if his eating strike continues, I know what has to be done.

I am so upset, you should have seen him Saturday before the vet, he was almost normal. He still had some mucus and popping, but the heavy breathing, vertical stance and beard puffing were not existent. His color was good....and now this. I am flabbergasted at how quickly this change occurred. I had a fairly normal dragon on Saturday morning and by Saturday afternoon, I have one where he is very likely to die.

I have no idea how he caught this in the first place, I meticulously check temps daily, and they are always in range...usual 100 at basking, 77-80 mid, and 68-71 cool. Humidity is always naturally very low, as I live in a dry climate, and usual range is 30-37. Since the pneumonia diagnosis, temps at basking are 105-105 with mid at 79-81, and cool 72-75. Humidity is at 30-34. I disinfect the cage at least twice a week now. To include all the soft basking spots that I added. I cannot pin this on a husbandry issue. Original x-ray showed a normal, heart, did not show any tumor, did not show any foreign body, but this is where the vet saw lung changes and diagnosed pneumonia.

I did not get blood work done, but I am not really sure it would have told me anything different. I end this update with hanging on to hope, but signs are pointing to the worst outcome. I am trying to leave him alone as much as possible, so I do not inadvertently add to his stress. I will let you all know what happens as it does.
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Re: Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia

Postby AHBD » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:32 am

How stressful for you both. :( Don't give up, he may work through this as well. And beardies often sleep vertically, even babies do.

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Re: Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia

Postby bayoupig5 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:56 am

Not giving up yet...no freakin' way. I know this vertical sleeping can be "normal", but I know this is not "normal" for him. In fact, now that I know what is going on, besides the little lip puffing on eating early on, vertical sleeping was the only indicator of an RI for him.

I forgot to mention in the above post that I had asked about nebulizing the Ceftazidime, but the vet did not respond. So, I am still doing the horrible injections for him. I think the vet has given up, but I definitely have not.
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Re: Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia

Postby AHBD » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:00 am

Ask Tracie about that as well, or get the vet back on the phone about it, it's the least they can do now. Try to keep the poor guy as comfortable as possible.
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Re: Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia

Postby bayoupig5 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:33 am

Well things are not any better. He remains with a black beard all day. The only reprieve is when he is sleeping and first thing in the morning where he is a light grey. I keep hoping he will get better, but so far this has not been the case. However, although he wants to sleep elevated, he has not been completely vertical. He pops, crackles, and puff gulps his beard a lot, but does not cough or vent a whole lot. He ate 3.5 mls of homemade veg/bug slurry on Friday the 4th on his own, which was a happy moment. He no longer is interested in supers, he watches them, but will not eat them. The last time he ate completely on his own was January 1, when he ate 7 of those supers. He has lost some weight was 390 grams and now down to 378 grams. He pooped this am, and although it was a normal poop, he did this right where he was basking, and did not move :( He sometimes has heavy respiration, and other times it is a little more normal. He does not move around a whole lot, but he has been on Tramadol since Jan 2nd and this does cause sedation. I have kept up his nebulizations, 2 times per day, and he is still on Metro and Ceft IM. He only wanted 1 ml of veg/bug slurry today after a little coaxing, I then forced 2 ml into him for a little sustenance. I seriously wished I could go back to last week. I would never have gone to the vet.
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Re: Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia

Postby AHBD » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:38 am

Sorry to hear this. :( It is good that he ate a bit though, and going a week without eating supers is not unusual, esp. since he's not well . A 15-20 gram weight loss is nothing , they can lose almost that much with a large bowel movement. I think he can get off the Tramadol soon and might become more active.
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Re: Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia

Postby Drache613 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:38 pm

Hello,

I agree, the tramadol may be making him feel sick, really.
Maybe try going off of that for him, for awhile & just doing the nebulizations for now. Does he
seem to tolerate that without any problems?
You can use Ceftz for nebulizing, yes. What is the strength of the solution you have now & I
can come up with an amount for you to use for the nebulizing. What are you using right now
for the nebulizing, saline solution?
Keep him warm overnight. I hope he is feeling better soon.

Tracie
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Re: Worse Symptoms After Vet Visit - Pneumonia

Postby bayoupig5 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:40 pm

I have decided as of today, to stop dosing the Tramadol twice a day. He did not get his dose this am. Poor guy, I am always happy to see somewhat normal coloring when he wakes up, but this only last 30 to 40 minutes. I think I will continue the Tramadol in the evening though, as he seems to sleep better. Before the Tramadol, he slept very lightly with even the slightest noise waking him up.

Tinks is always black these days, so I am not sure if he is tolerating much of anything, but there have been no additional problems with nebulizing. I had read that I can nebulize F10 with either saline or distilled water, and so the latter is what is being used. 1 ml per 250 ml. or terms 4 ml per 1 litre of distilled water. I have been doing this for about 20-25 minutes twice a day, but I had just read on the F10 website that this can be done up to three times per day, so I may try to add in another treatment. I tried treating him in his viv, but it was more difficult and did not seem to change his black beard, so I continue to use the nebulizing chamber that I made.

I phoned the vet and they told me that the Ceftazadime comes in a 1 gram dose per vial, which is diluted with 3 mls of sterile water. I recently got a full vial which I drew up myself at 0.05 an 0.04 mls and got about 50 or so injections so that dilution rate seems about right. I will double check to ensure that this is absolutely correct. Giving the IM is heart wrenching these days. Before he would fight, but now it is hard to watch him with him being so uncomfortable.

I started to give him some oral fluid, slowly, to the side of his mouth, instead of bathing. Yesterday and today he was given 1 ml by mouth, which I think I will continue for as long as needed. He looks ok in terms of hydration, no sunken eyes or anything yet, despite basking at higher heat for most of if not all day.

His viv has been adjusted and re done as well. Basking spots are rolled towels with covers that can be removed every two days for disinfection. F10 at 4ml t 1 litre has been made up to spray every second day in his viv while he is being nebulized. I am being hyper vigilant since this recent turn of events, hoping that this will turn around for the better. The main basking spot is inclined with the highest temp being about 105 F, but he can move lower to adjust if he wishes, but mostly he likes to be high in the heat. I have another towel area, that gets to about 95 F at highest, which is also inclined for temperature variables. His cool side viv temp gets to about 73F, but he is never on that side anymore. Where he sits at night is somewhat variable 76-80F. That is as high as I can get things as his viv is placed right in front of the electric baseboard heater at the one side for increased temps.

I really do not think there is anymore I can do, and sitting and waiting is so very difficult. Oh, and on top of all of this...his nostrils are at the very beginning of shed!
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