Spikey diagnosed with Gout

Hello everyone! First time poster and beardie mom here.

We got Spikey from a local pet store almost a year ago and she has been wonderful. Only issue until recently was constipation over the summer which was helped with prune baby food mixed with veg oil and a little honey.

We noticed she was sleeping A lot and not eating or pooping the week of Oct 1st but it went on for another week (we thought maybe brumation?). Thursday night I took her out and she was barely moving. She dragged herself a little to get to a spot to sleep under my son’s dresser. Assumed it was from constipation so Friday morning my husband gave her prune baby food with veg oil and honey (which he discovered after the fact was imitation honey so Not sure if that could be part of the issue). Friday early afternoon I noticed her front leg and hand were swollen. I called and got an appointment with a vet, but the closest exotic vets are an hour away which concerned me.

She was still lethargic Saturday when we bundled her up and took her to the vet. At first he thought MBD and that the swelling was actually just a size difference. Gave her a calcium injection. Blood test came back with gout. He said her level was 18 and normal should be under 9. Prescribed .4 Colchine every 12hrs. She also had explosive diarrhea at vet’s office so they did fecal and it didn’t show anything.

She is still not eating but looks improved. Not lethargic and moving more around her terrarium and when I take her out to give meds. Her limbs are still stiff and front hands still look swollen. Pooped this morning with lots of liquid. Vet called right after bowel movement and was concerned she’s not eating.

Just looking for advice. Does she sound like she’s getting better? Is there anything else I can do for her?

Standard info:
Spikey - female approx 1 year old
6.8oz 14inches
Terrarium: tile floor so no substrate
Cannot remember size but it’s the largest one the pet store had.
Fav spot: log in basking area 97-98 degrees
Lights: 100w basking light & 10.0 ZooMed UVB
*suspended above wire top about 13 inches above log
Night light: Fluker’s black 75 watt
Diet: collard greens dusted with calcium and superworms. Occasionally sliced apple or green pepper but collards are her fav. Collards every day typically and 5-6 worms every other day. But she hasn’t eaten collards in about two weeks and had worms on Wednesday last week. Not eating currently, even worms although I tried to give them to her yesterday.

Attached: pics of terrarium and Spikey before appointment and Spikey today (on Dino Head/log)

Hello everyone! First time poster and beardie mom here.

We got Spikey from a local pet store almost a year ago and she has been wonderful. Only issue until recently was constipation over the summer which was helped with prune baby food mixed with veg oil and a little honey.

We noticed she was sleeping A lot and not eating or pooping the week of Oct 1st but it went on for another week (we thought maybe brumation?). Thursday night I took her out and she was barely moving. She dragged herself a little to get to a spot to sleep under my son’s dresser. Assumed it was from constipation so Friday morning my husband gave her prune baby food with veg oil and honey (which he discovered after the fact was imitation honey so Not sure if that could be part of the issue). Friday early afternoon I noticed her front leg and hand were swollen. I called and got an appointment with a vet, but the closest exotic vets are an hour away which concerned me.

She was still lethargic Saturday when we bundled her up and took her to the vet. At first he thought MBD and that the swelling was actually just a size difference. Gave her a calcium injection. Blood test came back with gout. He said her level was 18 and normal should be under 9. Prescribed .4 Colchine every 12hrs. She also had explosive diarrhea at vet’s office so they did fecal and it didn’t show anything.

She is still not eating but looks improved. Not lethargic and moving more around her terrarium and when I take her out to give meds. Her limbs are still stiff and front hands still look swollen. Pooped this morning with lots of liquid. Vet called right after bowel movement and was concerned she’s not eating.

Just looking for advice. Does she sound like she’s getting better? Is there anything else I can do for her?

Standard info:
Spikey - female approx 1 year old
6.8oz 14inches
Terrarium: tile floor so no substrate
Cannot remember size but it’s the largest one the pet store had.
Fav spot: log in basking area 97-98 degrees
Lights: 100w basking light & 10.0 ZooMed UVB
*suspended above wire top about 13 inches above log
Night light: Fluker’s black 75 watt
Diet: collard greens dusted with calcium and superworms. Occasionally sliced apple or green pepper but collards are her fav. Collards every day typically and 5-6 worms every other day. But she hasn’t eaten collards in about two weeks and had worms on Wednesday last week. Not eating currently, even worms although I tried to give them to her yesterday.

Attached: pics of terrarium and Spikey before appointment and Spikey today (on Dino Head/log)

Sorry I meant to post this in ER

Hi there, sorry to hear about Spikey's problems. She does look quite tired there. Although she has a diagnosis of gout, I see one serious problem that may have brought on pseudo-gout. The uvb light you have is either a coil or compact, those will not produce much uvb at all. You'll need a long tube Reptisun 10.0 t5 or an Arcadia D3 12 % or 14%. You can mount the long tube bulb under the mesh with twine or wire looped through and around the light fixture.

Without enough uvb she can not absorb calcium so she is in this condition. If it's warm where you live, take her outside [ not in the glass tank ] just sitting on your lap or in the grass or a large flat rock if it's not TOO hot. But get the new lights ASAP, she will not do well without them.

If she does have actual gout you can use black cherry extract , a few drops and extra water in the syringe for hydration. Most people who's dragons have gout get Allopurinol as the preferred med.
BTW, they sleep better with no light at all so a ceramic heater [ CHE ] is recommended , it produces heat but no light.

He there, I replied on your E.R thread.

Hello,

Do you need me to merge your two topics to keep your information together?
Her uric acid level of 18 is high, so definitely gout or at least gout like symptoms.
The colchicine is only designed for short term use & is just for swelling & as an anti-
inflammatory. It wont remedy the uric acid issue. Did he not prescribe any allopurinol
for her?
I would definitely get her started on black cherry or tart cherry extract, with extra oral
fluids & check on getting allopurinol.
How often do you give calcium supplementation for her?

Tracie

AHBD":3jxfbg5j said:

Hi there, sorry to hear about Spikey's problems. She does look quite tired there. Although she has a diagnosis of gout, I see one serious problem that may have brought on pseudo-gout. The uvb light you have is either a coil or compact, those will not produce much uvb at all. You'll need a long tube Reptisun 10.0 t5 or an Arcadia D3 12 % or 14%. You can mount the long tube bulb under the mesh with twine or wire looped through and around the light fixture.

Without enough uvb she can not absorb calcium so she is in this condition. If it's warm where you live, take her outside [ not in the glass tank ] just sitting on your lap or in the grass or a large flat rock if it's not TOO hot. But get the new lights ASAP, she will not do well without them.

If she does have actual gout you can use black cherry extract , a few drops and extra water in the syringe for hydration. Most people who's dragons have gout get Allopurinol as the preferred med.
BTW, they sleep better with no light at all so a ceramic heater [ CHE ] is recommended , it produces heat but no light.

Click to expand...

I will get her the new lights tonight!! And look into the heater and black cherry extract.

Is there a good method to getting them to open for the syringe? She is quite stubborn and bit me the first time I tried (and mistakenly tried to use my finger to prop her mouth open, lessened learned).

Thank you for your help!

Drache613":1ybn4b9f said:

Hello,

Do you need me to merge your two topics to keep your information together?
Her uric acid level of 18 is high, so definitely gout or at least gout like symptoms.
The colchicine is only designed for short term use & is just for swelling & as an anti-
inflammatory. It wont remedy the uric acid issue. Did he not prescribe any allopurinol
for her?
I would definitely get her started on black cherry or tart cherry extract, with extra oral
fluids & check on getting allopurinol.
How often do you give calcium supplementation for her?

Tracie

Click to expand...

Thank you Tracie! I have no idea how to merge the topics but will keep checking both. I’ve never done message boards like this before.

Doc did only prescribe the colchine but I will email and ask about allopurinol.

I was only giving her the calcium dusting once or twice a week until recently I read it should be given more. Last week I dusted her superworms with it since she hasn’t been eating her collards since the end of September. She really only likes her collards with the calcium on them though. She goes crazy for collards normally.

I will try to find the black cherry extract. We only have two grocery stores in my town so hopefully Kroger has it!

Thank you for your input!

Drache613":y06mki86 said:

Hello,

Do you need me to merge your two topics to keep your information together?
Her uric acid level of 18 is high, so definitely gout or at least gout like symptoms.
The colchicine is only designed for short term use & is just for swelling & as an anti-
inflammatory. It wont remedy the uric acid issue. Did he not prescribe any allopurinol
for her?
I would definitely get her started on black cherry or tart cherry extract, with extra oral
fluids & check on getting allopurinol.
How often do you give calcium supplementation for her?

Tracie

Click to expand...

Hi again Tracie. I called the vet this morning to ask about Allopurinol and he said he has better luck with the Colchine and they “pretty much do the same thing.”

This is contradictory to what I’ve read on these message boards so I am wondering if you would recommend going to a different vet or if I could get Allopurinol elsewhere. This vet was recommended by another exotic vet that didn’t have appointments for a week. I hate to put Spikey through the stress of another vet visit and two hours in the car if I can just get it online or something. Thank you for your help! Her poor little front hands are still so swollen.

I also purchased the ReptiSun T5 hood last night and am in the process of trying to figure out how to mount it inside.

I have never dealt with gout...but I can give you syringe/ hydration tips. They can be quite stubborn. So there are a couple things you can try. Try a bath of water and cherry. While the dragon is in the bath splash your fingers around a bit. Sometimes the sound of splashing water would entice my dragon to drink. You can also try a regular bath and fill a glass with the cherry/water mixture and keep dripping the syringe on the tip of Spikey's nose. The last thing is to coax the mouth open a little with the syringe tip. You hold the syringe at about a 45 degree angle and gently prod the lower jaw with the tip. Be careful when doing this last method though. If the mouth opens you do not want to squirt the liquid stiaight down the thorat. You do not want any liquid in the lungs. Try keeping the syringe sideways at the mouth and squirt in about 1ml to 2mls at a time. You could also try baby foods tempoarily by syringe as they contain more water. This is how one of my dragons ate vegetables for a lifetime. Just load the syringe and place a little on the tip of the nose. Almost always the dragon will lick it off. Keep syringing until finished.

bayoupig5":2dlnkkax said:

I have never dealt with gout...but I can give you syringe/ hydration tips. They can be quite stubborn. So there are a couple things you can try. Try a bath of water and cherry. While the dragon is in the bath splash your fingers around a bit. Sometimes the sound of splashing water would entice my dragon to drink. You can also try a regular bath and fill a glass with the cherry/water mixture and keep dripping the syringe on the tip of Spikey's nose. The last thing is to coax the mouth open a little with the syringe tip. You hold the syringe at about a 45 degree angle and gently prod the lower jaw with the tip. Be careful when doing this last method though. If the mouth opens you do not want to squirt the liquid stiaight down the thorat. You do not want any liquid in the lungs. Try keeping the syringe sideways at the mouth and squirt in about 1ml to 2mls at a time. You could also try baby foods tempoarily by syringe as they contain more water. This is how one of my dragons ate vegetables for a lifetime. Just load the syringe and place a little on the tip of the nose. Almost always the dragon will lick it off. Keep syringing until finished.

Click to expand...

Thank you bayoupig5!

Hi,

I have never had to deal with gout with my beardie, but after noticing that there were a fair number of posts on the subject, I went poking around the 'net and found an interesting article from the founder of Repashy about it. He even says in the article that this isn't any kind of proof, but it seems hydration and lowering the protein content of feeder insects can help stave it off. I also read a Merck veterinary report talking about dubias that said their relatively high protein content and tendency to convert protein to uric acid in times of uneven feeding (starvation/food glut), made them higher in uric acid content overall as feeders. No idea if any of this holds water, but I have been trying to feed my crickets more veg., primarily bc my dragon won't touch them. Wondering if this will have a knock-on effect of helping to prevent gout. It's hard to prove a negative, but I thought I'd post this to see what the veterans on the board think or if they've heard anything similar.

In the meantime, I'm pulling for Spikey!

https://www.store.repashy.com/can-feeder-insect-diets-contribute-to-gout-in-reptiles.html

Yes, that was an interesting article and I do believe that it's definitely a possible factor in some beardies with gout. I posted a link to that info in the feeding forum a while back.

Thank you! That article is interesting. I had been trying to talk my husband into letting me feed Spikey cockroaches but I guess it’s good that we haven’t.

She ate three superworms this morning, had two baths and two bowel movements. Still not eating greens and still being stubborn about her meds. Her little front legs are still swollen too.

I did get her the ReptiSun hood with the 10.0 bulb and am hoping it helps!

Hello,

How is Spikey doing today?
I am surprised the vet said that they do the same thing, essentially because that isn't correct.
The colchicine is often used in combination with it short term to help alleviate pain associated
with the swelling. It doesn't help break down the uric acid though, like the allopurinol does.
That is frustrating having to deal with that! You can order the meds online without a prescription
yes. It takes a bit to get them in the mail but not bad. I also have an online reptile supply store
too & designed a gout kit which includes some as well, along with a kidney support powder. I can
give you a link for both, to help if you would like.
It would be stressful to take her to another vet & might be hard to find another vet who is willing
to prescribe it.
That's great you got a new T5 reptisun tube. Did you get it mounted inside the tank now?
I can't remember if Kroger has the black cherry or not. I think they had R Knudson's brand of the
juice. How is her appetite?
I'll merge your threads for you. Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie