Very sick dragon

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I have a 7.5 yr old (we got him last January and we're told he was 6) male bearded dragon who refuses to eat veggies but ate crickets and super worms with calcium supplement and always a variety of fresh fruit and veg and a water dish ( he's never used). Everything was normal... he's always been a bit lazy but about a month ago it finally clued in that he hadn't pooped in about a month. I went to the pet store for advice and was told to give applesauce/ worms covered in olive oil and to bathe him in warm water while gentle massaging his belly. I also made a vet appointment. He had a large bm in the bath the night before I took him to the vet. At the vets, they told me he looked to be in great condition but may have a bacterial infection in his mouth so prescribed antibiotics. I gave him the antibiotics and he seemed to get worse...more lethargic and and still not pooping and eating less. I brought him back, they gave me lactulose and a calcium supplement. Gave him that along with critical care food by syringe. He continued to deteriorate. Brought him back a third time and they did an x-ray. X-ray showed something but they couldn't tell what...could be a gas bubble, could be cancer. He also had developed diarrhea at this point so he was prescribed an antibiotic for two weeks in case of parasites in his digestive tract. Now he doesn't eat at all, avoids his basking area ( his tank has been discussed with the pet store and the vet and they both said it is perfect for him) he now has a black beard all the time and when I bathe him he thrashes around trying to get out and almost his whole body goes black. He seems to be breathing more heavily since we've been forcing stuff down his throat but he isn't raspy and there is no snot in his nose or mouth. The vet is currently looking to find someone that will do an ultrasound on him to find out if what they saw on the x-ray is cancer or something that can be fixed. I'm feeling awful. I don't want to put him to sleep if it's something that can be fixed but I also don't want him suffering if it's cancer. It seems the more treatment we give him the worse he gets. He is now also on a probiotic and the diahrrea has stopped. I'm wondering if he is just black bearded because he's angry about having stuff shoved down his throat daily and maybe he's not eating because his mouth is sore from the hard syringes? I just don't know what to do. I don't want him to die. Does anyone have any idea what may be going on with him. Should I hold out another week or have him put down? Any help is appreciated.
 

Terry15

Sub-Adult Member
Pet stores give a lot of bad advice. There are people on this site that may be able to help you & your dragon. You could PM “Drache613 or maybe AHBD. They have a lot of Good advice, but they need info on your tank setup, pictures will help. I’m sorry your Beardie is feeling bad.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Oh boy, the pet store actually gave good advice this time. After he poo'd you should have cancelled the vet appt. It seems like their " treatment " [ esp. antibiotics " just in case " ] is making him sick, plus the force feeding. Was he eating O.K before the vet visit ? Can you post pics of him ? Here's how :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload
 

Ozziesmom7917

Member
Original Poster
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The first picture is of him during his first bath on July 14th...the second was yesterday. He was eating bugs just fine before bringing him to the vet... he's never been a big veggie eater. His tank is 48" by 18" by 18", the temperature in the basking area is between 100-110 or sometimes higher, it's 80 in the cooler area. He has a green mat, a log to climb on, a hammock, a fake log to hide in and his food and water dishes in there. He mostly was eating crickets and then went to super worms and sometimes we could sneak a veggie in ( I feed him the worms off chopsticks). He is 17.5 " long and, as of today weighs 442g (without his tail being on the scale) the last few days he has weighed 450g so he seems to have dropped some weight quickly. I'm bathing him daily but not for long because he hates it and starts thrashing around trying to get out and I don't want him burning energy. He'll run around outside (trying to escape me) but just lays in his tank with his eyes shut mostly. Whenever I put food in front of him he moves away from the food. I even tried the horn worms but the last time he ate was one of them last Friday, so it's been a week. Also, every day since Tuesday (except today) when I've brought him outside, he's seemed to strain to poop and a white pee sack comes out with a little bit of green, solid poop. And when he's outside he licks at things... I tried giving him a dandelion...he's liked those in the past and I put a horned worm in front of him outside but he wouldn't eat it. Today when I bathe him I thought he died...he bloated up really big and hard and stopped moving. I took him out of the water and he still didn't move for a bit but he slowly deflated and I could see him breathing. He is a really good dragon and I am devastated that he's so unhappy and praying he is not in pain or suffering. Maybe I should just stop forcing things down his throat and see what happens?
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

So sorry about your boy! He is having a rough time.
I agree, treating him for impaction with applesauce & olive oil was a good idea.
It does sound like a lot of unnecessary medications have made him worse. I would keep
him on the probiotic though, which one is he on?
Since he gets so stressed with a bath, for now, I would cease all baths because he is getting
so worked up over it & he could aspirate water & possibly drown thrashing around.
Just so we know, which UVB light are you using & what supplementations are you giving?
What are the temperatures in his tank?
I would keep him a little warmer over night in his tank, around 80 or so, since he isn't feeling
well. It can help to boost the immune system some. Do you feel he has passed a lot or all of
the impaction possibly? You are positive he is male & not female?
If his mouth is sore, you can get some raw, unpasteurized honey to put on the mouth & rub on
his gums with a swab. It is a natural anti-microbial & antibiotic which has great healing
properties.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
 

Beardeddtagonlover

Hatchling Member
I like to add my 2 cents here 1st if the dragon is not used to be bathed is normal for them to get out after a few weeks of bathing they should get used to it. Meds can be harsh on beardies and often lose appetite and become lethargic I would get a 2nd opinion take him to another vet.when you force feeding beardie make sure your not giving him too much at once if your going to give 5 ml of food just don't put the syringe and the mouth and pull the trigger at one time.my beardie loves to bathe now he was the same way as you describe but she is much younger.i been feeding my beardie for 6 weeks now she won't eat so I can relate.hope you beardie feels better.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
His body condition looks good and weight is in the proper range but of course you don't want him losing weight now because of his ordeal. It really sounds like the vet does not know what they are doing though. Treating for what they call a " possible " mouth infection, do you see a mouth infection ?
And force feeding him when he actually was eating on his own is bad , why they suggested that is beyond me. He is now sick from the antibiotics and totally stressed from the feedings and baths. So you can discontinue those.

Even if they guessed that he possibly has cancer,a blood test could have shown high glucose levels or the white cell count would also be way off, those can be indicators . So I just don't think this vet knows what they are doing. The diahrea was simply from forcing Lactulose + food down his throat. And now he has the urge to poo but possibly noting much in there because he's not eating much. Poor guy, I hope he recupes from this. BTW, what type of antibiuotic was he on, for how long and how much was the dose ?
 

Ozziesmom7917

Member
Original Poster
Thanks you all for your responses... I can't recall the name of the first antibiotic prescribed for his mouth but it was .2 mg twice a day and given because he had stringy saliva. The one he is on now is enrofloxacin and he's getting .18 ml/day for two weeks. He's taken 10 days worth. I'm using bene-bac plus .25 ml/ day of probiotic. The temp in his terrarium is 77 overnight...when I put him under his basking light, he moves away almost instantly to a cooler area. He currently has a "zoo med" basking lamp 75 w and a brand new uv bulb "exo terrea" uvb 150 ( the basking light says it provides uva). I'm sure he's cleared of any impaction...he's had a few good poops and hasn't eaten anything. My concern is what did they see on the x-ray? I had brought in a stool sample, they didn't want it and also it was never suggested he get a blood test. The vet is currently looking for someone who does ultrasounds on dragons to see if we can get a better look at whatever they saw! I will cease everything that makes him upset and get him some honey for his little mouth... hopefully that helps!
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

How is your boy doing today?
As far as what they may have seen on the x-ray, I am unsure. Did they say they felt it was a
mass perhaps?
A blood test would definitely help determine if there is cancer involved.
You were going to get an ultrasound done, if you can?
That's too bad they didn't do a fecal though, since you had a sample with you. I would keep
on giving the probiotic for him, hopefully that will help him out. Does he seem to be feeling
better without getting the Enroflaxin?
I hope the honey will help out his mouth, too.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie
 

Beardeddtagonlover

Hatchling Member
Hi Ozzie how is you beardie doing? I like to tell you the Exo Terra 150 is not good for uvb is a compact bulb they don't produce much Uvb better off getting an Mercury vapor bulb or a reptisun 10.0 the t5 are great and the T8 are ok as well but the light fixtures made by zoo med are pricey but they have reflectors and there great I don't know if they are other brands out there with a reflector that are cheaper
Hope you Beardie gets better.
.
 

Ozziesmom7917

Member
Original Poster
Hi everyone, he is not doing well at all. He hasn't eaten anything for 11 days and barely moves. When I put food infront of him is the only time he moves in order to get away from the food. I haven't forced anything on him in about three days and his black beard went away but as soon as I put food near him he gets angry and moves away. He has lost 10g of weight in the last few days. The vet contacted me to tell me she couldn't find anyone to do an ultrasound on him and I need to consider his quality of life at this point. I'm going to go get him some of his favorite bugs to eat this morning and if he doesn't eat anything, I will call the vet and have him euthanized. There is no way he has a blockage. I don't think it's parasites, I think he's dying and there is no one who can tell me what from. I don't want him to suffer and even though I don't know if he's in pain, I know he is not happy and I worry every day about him suffering and dying. I'm to talk to the vet again later today and make a decision. Thank you all for your help and support, I'll let you know what I decide.
 

Beardeddtagonlover

Hatchling Member
hi Ozzie im sorry you beardie is not doing well at all.i guess just have to wait for the diagnosis when you can get it in the mean time i advice to feed him via syringe if you don't have anything like reptaboost or critical care the easiest way is to make a shake some insects with calcium and some veggies and blend them then feed with syringe until you can get a examination and the proper diagnosis.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
I'm so sorry to hear that this is what it's come to. All he had was a bit of constipation which is pretty common, but went so far downhill after the enema + lots of meds. I think there may be hope for him but you have to make this sad decision. Do what you think is right, I truly feel for you and wish there was a better outcome. My heart goes out to you. :(
 

Ozziesmom7917

Member
Original Poster
I went to the pet store to get a variety of bugs to try get him to eat...he won't. A girl who works there said she would take him for me for awhile to see if she can help. Another employee says it sounds like he's trying to brumate. Everybody I've talked to has said they don't brumate in summer but he hasn't brumated in the year and a half we've had him so maybe he is? I have brought him to the vet three times and each time they just took a guess at what's going on and given me different antibiotics. I don't think they really know what they're doing!
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Does he still have that jet black beard going? That would indicate stress rather than brumation. Some of them are brumating or slowing down already though. I wouldn't offer any antibiotics unless they've done specific testing to confirm an infection and identify the bacteria causing it.
 
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