Sick bearded dragon!! Swollen joins/crooked back

I really need someone’s help on a big problem I’m having with my bearded dragon. To start off I got my bearded dragon Matisse from petco just after Christmas, so she is very young ( I know it wasn’t the best thing to get a bearded dragon from petco). Over the last three months her joints have become very swollen to the point it’s hard for her to walk. Her back also has become stiff and bent to one side as if something has swollen in her back. We took her into the vet and they said that she had too much D3 and not enough calcium. That was awhile ago and she has gotten worse. Husbandry is all correct(5.0 UVB, sun heat lamp, heat emitter, 30 gallon I believe). She regularly gets fed Dubaia roaches and some crickets dusted with crushed tums every other day. As well as many greens always offered. I have no idea if this is MBD or Gout but it would so appreciated if someone could help, it’s been too long and the last thing I want to do is put down my first bearded dragon.
P.S. there is another younger one in the cage with her, perfectly healthy. Honestly couldn’t be better, so I know it’s not the husbandry. I believe the other one is proof that this is something up with the bearded dragon itself (gout or some such). Once again, thank you.

Here are some images

Actually it is the husbandry that has caused your poor beardie to get like this.
The back and not walking properly is a clear sign of MBD as your 5.0 UVB bulb is far too weak to provide the correct about of UVB. You may be able to stop it from progressing further but its not exactly able to be cured. Plus the stress and bullying of having another bearded dragon also is a factor that caused this, most likely that dragon is doing well as it's taking all the good resources, the best UVB levels, best basking spot and the most food causing this dragon to slowly fail to thrive so if you do not separate them very soon this dragon may not have long to live.

The slightly enlarged areas do look like gout somewhat, however I'm not to familiar with it so someone more experienced on that part can be of more help. What do you feed your feeder insects by the way?
If im correct gout is usually caused by too much protein, usually feeders fed too high protein diets that are then fed to the lizard can cause it.


What you want to do is get a 100 liter bin (Or 105 quart bin, Sterilite tubs work well) and move the healthy dragon into there so your other dragon can have a chance at surviving. Get a separate basking bulb and heat lamp and put it over one side of the tub where the basking spot will be, and then get a 22" or 34" Reptisun T5 HO 10.0 tube light with a reflective fixture and lay that across the tub, put some hides and climbing areas inside the tub so that the healthy dragon can bask and hide if needed.
Make sure the dragon can't escape.
You can of course just get a 20 gallon for the healthy dragon but the bin will be less expensive.

Now for the unhealthy dragon, leave it in the current setup it has now. Get the same UVB light I stated above (Reptisun T5 HO 10.0). Make sure both of their temperatures are perfect and make sure your monitoring these temps with a temp gun or a digital temperature gauge, stick on gauges do not work. You'll most likely want to take him to a proper reptile vet,
http://www.anapsid.org/vets/#vetlist
This is a good site for that.

Also make sure your not using any particle substrates (Sand, soil, eco earth ect). Just use paper towels or non adhesive shelf liner, in the future you could upgrade to tiles once you get each of them a 75 gallon (That is the minimum for a full grown beardie).

Basking spot should be 100-110.
Warm side 88-95.
Cool side 70-85.
Night time temps 65-85 (I'd recommend keeping the temps at least 75 for the unhealthy dragon).

https://docs.google.com/document/d/18PfjxbgD95KLcfRCqGAVz-ViuMPuP4AvgGBSZzPKRgc/edit?usp=sharing
And then this is just a little care sheet I made that goes over the basics, diet, lighting, heating, ect.

Oh and also the links for the UVB lights.
https://www.amazon.com/Reptile-T5HO-Standard-Fixture-Reflector/dp/B01B209YQC/ref=sr_1_5?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1523586973&sr=1-5&keywords=t5+ho+fixture
^ 34" T5 HO Fixture

https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-26062-Reptisun-Fluorescent/dp/B00AQU8HKO/ref=pd_bxgy_199_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00AQU8HKO&pd_rd_r=ZNH52XHETCP3Y7K5FGA2&pd_rd_w=GIi1G&pd_rd_wg=oAEwd&psc=1&refRID=ZNH52XHETCP3Y7K5FGA2&dpID=31QDwNV8eSL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail
^ 34" T5 HO 10.0

Hello,

Poor little one, it appears to be metabolic bone disease & pseudo gout due to poor calcium
absorption.
Pseudo gout can usually be cured once their calcium to phosphorus ratio normalizes. He will
need upgraded lighting, as suggested & probably some allopurinol treatments, too for help with
the kidneys, too.
For now, you will need to try & reduce the protein a little bit to help out the kidneys. I would
be proactive & get some black cherry powder or juice extract to get him started on & consider
getting him on gout treatment medication.
Can you separate him from the other one also?

Tracie

Sorry it took a long time for me to reply. To start off I said the wrong UVB, off the top of my head I thought it was a 5.0 howerever it’s actually a desert 50 UVB T8 Fluorecent Tube Light. The heat lamp on the hot side is also a dual uvb and heat lamp so technically they should be getting more than enough UVB anywhere they are located in the cage. There is also a ceramic heat emitter to keep the cool side warmer so the temps are correct. On the topic of the two lizards being together, I know many people are against this but I have good reason. Both lizards have more than enough room under the heat lamp and UVB. Both lizards eat the exact and same amount of food, as I feed them by hand. all the symptoms from Matisse began to occur well before the second was added. However the other lizard could always be stressing the other out, so I will separate them for awhile and see if anything changes over a month/couple months. For the feeder crickets and Dubaia roaches I feed them bearded dragon fortified pellets, which looking at the label it’s 25% crude protein. So I will be switching that right away to less protein. Hopefully this helps a little more

Hello,

The Desert 50 T8 UVB is either a Zilla or All Living Things. The bulb is just an ok bulb, but the
UVB emissions are not very strong. Over time, most dragons end up developing metabolic bone
disease if kept under the bulb. They can only store & maintain 25 Hydroxy levels for so long in
their body before the levels fall if they aren't exposed to ample UVB emissions.
Since he is in such bad condition, it is imperative that he is housed alone for now on. He isn't
able to defend himself against a possible attack, which isn't fair to him. He shouldn't have to
compete for heat or lighting. Unfortunately, you never see an attack coming, until it
does & then it's too late. There have been countless cases here on the board.
Lowering the protein some should help his kidneys. This type of swelling though, may need a
gout medication in order to help break up & dissolve excess uric acid right now. He just might
have different genetics that makes him more prone to gout or other problems.

Let us know how they are doing.
Tracie

Update:
Both lizards are housed in different tanks (thank god good will had one) with a 100 watt basking lamp, a 60 watt ceramic heat emitter for the night, and both have the same uvb. Should I upgrade that bulb? Also the sick dragon seems to be better already. Diet has been limited to 2 smaller Dubias and always offered mustard greens, kate, and dandelion leaves. Dubias are also now eating more greens.

Hello,

Yes, I do think you need to replace the UVB tube bulb. It is not very strong & wont really
help out his condition much.
At the very least, he or both of them each need a Reptisun 10 tube or an Arcadia D3 14%
either one.
I am glad to hear he is starting to do a little better. Keep us posted on him.

Tracie

What is the best way to treat what is most likely gout? I’ve head of black cherry powder or juice extract, but how much would I feed to him? I just want to make sure I don’t overdue it. And which one of the two would be better? Looking at his right back leg he has just shed it looks a little bigger so I need to do something to break down the uric acid buildup.

Quincy211":3a340ncf said:

What is the best way to treat what is most likely gout? I’ve head of black cherry powder or juice extract, but how much would I feed to him? I just want to make sure I don’t overdue it. And which one of the two would be better? Looking at his right back leg he has just shed it looks a little bigger so I need to do something to break down the uric acid buildup.

Click to expand...

If it's getting bigger that is not a good sign, the cherry juice might be able to help a little by putting drops on his snout and seeing if he licks it. Otherwise I think the only way for the gout to go away fully is medicine from the vet. hope he gets better!

Thank you, I will get the juice and try to go to the vet again to see if they get me medicine. Last time I went in they told me she just had too much D3 but he’s been off D3 for a long time and it’s only gotten worse. Unless it’s possible to buy medacine I will try to go into another vet

Hello,

Oh poor thing, so the swelling has gotten a bit worse?
Definitely get him started on the black cherry right now, that could help out some for him.
Are you able to get oral fluids into him daily? You can give .5ml to 1ml daily. You can give
either powder or liquid.
Keep his protein to a minimum right now, to help his kidneys. Try to get him to eat veggies
& greens also.
He is a little young or small to have blood drawn, but they can do x-rays on him.
Allopurinol is the best medication used to treat gout. The vet can prescribe it for him, if
he feels it is gout. I think it is, just based on the pictures.
The D3 should be out of his system by now though.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie