1- 5 Days Hatchlings won't eat anything at all

Hi, I had a clutch that recently started to hatch. Oldest one is 5 days old and have still 20 eggs unhatched.
These 6 newly hatched dragons won't eat at all .
I really need some tips on how to feed 1-5 days old hatchlings. I've tried everything, literally. Temp is 30degrees and humidity is about 40-50ish. They are in a tank that is not too big for them, neither is small. When I offer pinheads crickets on a tweezers they just close their eyes, and when I put running crickets around in their box they wont even interest themselves to look at them. I am so worried about them, 2 of these beardies are now 5 days old and havent even ate anything. Bathed them so at least they will stay hydrated. Any suggestions will help as I am currently out of options.
Thanks

Well first of all, I don't know what temperature you are saying is "30 degrees Celsius", but that's way, way too cold for them, that's only about 86 degrees F, so this probably has a lot to do with why they have no appetite at all. Just because they are new hatchlings does not mean you can keep them at much lower temperatures, they need a basking spot/platform set-up underneath bright-white colored light and a strong UVB light, with a surface temperature of at the very least 100 degrees, better to be 105 degrees. Are they under a UVB light? You didn't mention any UVB light, so this will also cause a total lack of appetite, albeit not as quickly as being kept at only 30 degrees C will...You also should be misting them often so they can lick the water droplets off, if they are not eating anything they are going to be suffering from dehydration as well as malnutrition.

Also, if you're feeding them crickets, are you just dumping in a bunch of crickets at one time? If so, this can overwhelm new hatchlings and scare them to death, so it's best if you only dump in 2-3 crickets at a time, let them eat them, then dump in 2-3 more, etc. And yes, pinhead crickets are your best bet, depending on what size your smalls are.

EllenD":21tqm7lh said:

Well first of all, I don't know what temperature you are saying is "30 degrees Celsius", but that's way, way too cold for them, that's only about 86 degrees F, so this probably has a lot to do with why they have no appetite at all. Just because they are new hatchlings does not mean you can keep them at much lower temperatures, they need a basking spot/platform set-up underneath bright-white colored light and a strong UVB light, with a surface temperature of at the very least 100 degrees, better to be 105 degrees. Are they under a UVB light? You didn't mention any UVB light, so this will also cause a total lack of appetite, albeit not as quickly as being kept at only 30 degrees C will...You also should be misting them often so they can lick the water droplets off, if they are not eating anything they are going to be suffering from dehydration as well as malnutrition.

Also, if you're feeding them crickets, are you just dumping in a bunch of crickets at one time? If so, this can overwhelm new hatchlings and scare them to death, so it's best if you only dump in 2-3 crickets at a time, let them eat them, then dump in 2-3 more, etc. And yes, pinhead crickets are your best bet, depending on what size your smalls are.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your time to reply.
Yes I meant 30 degrees Celsius, it is a 100W basking spot from Zoomed, it is about 30cm high. I am afraid to go for a higher W, hoping not to fry them . As for UVB they thave the zoomed tube 10W, on for about 10 hours a day.
I am starting to mist them as well with water, droplets on their nose so they can lick it, the problem is they are closing their eyes instead of drinking it. I also am bathing them twice daily so they can hydrate even more.
Crickets sometimes im trying to put around 5 in their enclosure and sometimes i just put a cricket on my finger trying to reach their attention, but no luck.
As for size they are smaller than my pinky finger. (And I am a 22 year old female so my hands arent that big ?)

As for temp, you think I should go for 150W?

Well they are never going to eat unless you get both their Basking Spot Surface Temperature up between 105-110 degrees F (40.5 degrees C - 43.3 degrees C), and then the surrounding Air Temperature between 88-93 degrees F (31.1 degrees C - 33.9 degrees C) (they need to have a rock, piece of wood, etc. to bask on that is directly under both lights so they get both at the same time). And even if they did eat right now, they would most likely die because they would not be able to digest any of the crickets at all due to being at 86 degrees, and they would become severely impacted.

I wouldn't necessarily go from a 100 watt bright-white colored Basking Bulb to a 150 watt one, but rather try lowering the 100 watt Basking Bulb closer to their tub, and if that doesn't get the temperature high enough, then go to a 125 watt, not a 150 watt...What type of thermometer are you using to measure the temps? You must have either an Infrared Gun or a Digital Probe Thermometer, and FIRST take the Surface Temperature of their basking platform/rock/wood exactly where they lay to bask, that's what you need to get between 105-110 degrees F (40.5-43.3 degrees C), with 43.3 degrees C the absolute highest Surface Temperature on the basking rock/wood. This surface temp must absolutely be at least 40.5 degrees C, though you're better for new hatchlings at about 42 degrees C or so. This is exactly why they are not eating, their metabolisms are so slow right now that they have no appetites at all.

Also, do you have the T8 UVB tube within at least 6" of them/their basking platform/rock? That's a must as well, as the T8 tubes are too weak to be any further away from them in order for them to get adequate UVB/UVA light...

And no more baths twice a day!!!!!! This is making the situation much worse, they do not get any hydration from soaking in water at all!!! That's a total myth, the only way they get hydration is if they drink it through their mouths, just like us, they absorb no hydration at all through their vents or their skin!!! So stop the baths, as this is likely just totally stressing them out more than they already are due to being at 86 degrees constantly, especially twice a day! The best way to get them hydrated is to mist them several times throughout the day, although since they haven't been eating anything and they are likely very, very dehydrated right now, unless they happen to drink some of the bath water, hopefully, I would start dripping water on each of their snouts with either an oral syringe or an eyedropper and let them lick it off, and give them as much water as each of them wants right now, drip it until they stop licking it off. You're going to need to do this to each of them several times throughout the day until they start eating the live insects, once they start eating the live crickets then you can simply mist them several times a day(which should happen pretty quickly once you get their temperatures way up and make sure that the T8 UVB tube is within at least 6" and there is nothing between them and the tube)...But right now they are critical, because 5 days without eating anything has no doubt made them severely dehydrated and malnourished...

Also, i forgot, you absolutely cannot have ANYTHING between them and that T8 UVB tube, no mesh lids or screens, no clear plastic covers on the bottom of the tube fixtures (Zilla tends to put these covers on their tube fixtures), etc. The T8 UVB tubes are far too weak to be able to penetrate adequate UVB light to them on the other side of a mesh tank lid, and NO UVB can penetrate any glass or clear plastic, it blocks 100% UVB light emitted, while the mesh lids block about 40% of the UVB light...

Once you get their Basking Spot/Platform Temperature up to about 42-43 degrees C, and you get that T8 UVB tube totally unobstructed by anything, so there is absolutely nothing between the babies and the bare UVB tube, and the bare UVB tube is within at least 6" of the babies, they should start having an appetite very quickly. First get the temps up, then get the UVB tube unobstructed and within 6", then while they're heating up and absorbing the UVB/UVA light, start dripping water on each of their snouts for as long as they'll lick the water off. Hopefully they'll start eating the pinhead crickets by tomorrow morning, but again, only drop in 2-3 at a time, and then once they're being eaten drop 2-3 more, otherwise you'll overwhelm them...

And also, both their bright-white colored Basking Bulb and the UVB tube need to be on every single day for at least 13 hours, no less, and 14 hours is better, but no less than 13. A 10 hour photoperiod is far too short...

Hi there, congrts on the babies, please post pics of the set up ASAP. Here's how:

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them

Your temp. is much too low, I hope that they are now not sick. Stop the baths ASAP, especially with the very low temp. you have. They are not interested in drinking or eating because the temp. is much too low like Ellen said. Get rid of the spot basking bulb, it only focuses heat in one area. Here's how I used to set up my babies :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/29889/full

https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/29926/full

Put them in a low sided plastic tote like this and set your heat bulb over the top as well as the uvb, but get a regular incandecent or else a halogen par 38, about 100 watt and make sure there's a basking temp. of 105, the cool side should be about 83. You can use cardboard egg crating and criss cross some sticks low to the ground like I have in my set up. Once they have the proper temps. they should start eating + drinking but hopefully they are not sick now because of the low temps. + bathing. Get the temp. up ASAP.

Hello,

I hope your babies start doing better. As suggested, the basking temps need to come up. Be
sure you use either a digital probe or a temp gun to properly measure the temperatures.
Definitely post pictures so we can see everything on your setup, too.

Tracie

Hey all, thank for everyone who had time to reply to my post.
This morning I changed bulbs with the ones of my adults (dont worry, will get a new one for them) a halogen of 100W
Now temp is playing 40-45 Celcius, while cool area is around 25 Celcius anyway.
These are some photos of the setup. Will try to feed them again in an hour or so, maybe they will adjust. I misted them with some water as well.
Thanks

Just wondering, are they living off the yoke sack (which is slowly absorbed into the body after hatching). This may be what's happening.

Once the yoke is all absorbed they'll soon become hungry.

I asked the breeder who I bought Peppa and Toothless off as 5 week olds , this is what she emailed me

Neonate reptiles will often take a few days to a week to ‘discover’ their appetite. They have some nutrients left in their system from their yolk just prior to hatching, and will generally show little interest in food.
Don’t be alarmed if it takes a few days for them to start chasing crickets. Offer a few small prey items a few days after hatching.

If they don’t go after it, try again the next day, being sure to remove the uneaten insects. Keep this up until they begin to go after the prey item.

From then on, carefully add feeders, a small quantity at a time, until they have eaten their fill, or when they stop chasing them.

Babies are best fed small quantities of insects throughout the day. If you can manage to feed them 2-3 times a day, they will be in better condition for it.

She also said
Pinhead roaches or crickets , 2 week old silkworms (lots of them) are best feeders.
Offer live insects in small batches 3 times per day.
T5ho 12%uvb tube 12inches above them.
Basking spot 40 degC NO HOTTER !
No cooler than 28 degC overnight.

Click to expand...

kingofnobbys":2knveryd said:

Just wondering, are they living off the yoke sack (which is slowly absorbed into the body after hatching). This may be what's happening.

Once the yoke is all absorbed they'll soon become hungry.

I asked the breeder who I bought Peppa and Toothless off as 5 week olds , this is what she emailed me

Neonate reptiles will often take a few days to a week to ‘discover’ their appetite. They have some nutrients left in their system from their yolk just prior to hatching, and will generally show little interest in food.
Don’t be alarmed if it takes a few days for them to start chasing crickets. Offer a few small prey items a few days after hatching.

If they don’t go after it, try again the next day, being sure to remove the uneaten insects. Keep this up until they begin to go after the prey item.

From then on, carefully add feeders, a small quantity at a time, until they have eaten their fill, or when they stop chasing them.

Babies are best fed small quantities of insects throughout the day. If you can manage to feed them 2-3 times a day, they will be in better condition for it.

She also said
Pinhead roaches or crickets , 2 week old silkworms (lots of them) are best feeders.
Offer live insects in small batches 3 times per day.
T5ho 12%uvb tube 12inches above them.
Basking spot 40 degC NO HOTTER !
No cooler than 28 degC overnight.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Hi, thanks for emailing a breeder, it rested my mind a little bit
They are now all off their yolk-sac, one of them on Wednesday was off and others through this week.
Hoping they will start eating something, even if in small quantities.

Temp is now 40ish Celcius so now it might help their hungriness.
Will keep you all updated. Thanks for your help

Don't worry, I raised 1000's of these guys so you are already talking to someone who has a ton of experience, not just a couple of clutches or for a year or two. They usually eat 2-3 days after hatching. I know how to take care of these guys, and I know all about the yolk sac. At 5 days old they should be eating + drinking.

https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/29937/full

It's the temperature that affects their behavior , a low temp. risks low activity for a baby and no appetite. This has nothing to do with the yolk sac. BTW, put some things in there so they can climb, see how I have branches+ egg crating for them ? It's pretty stressful if they want to climb but have nothing to climb ob. It's their natural instinct. And if you can get a plastic tote with lower sides they's be closer to the uvb bulb. That's a bit too far.

Yes, as soon as I read your temperature of 86 degrees as a high it was quite obvious why they were sick. As AHBD already said, I hope they are not already too sick from the combo of living in 86 degrees and getting 2 baths a day...not good.

I hope that you can get their Basking Spot Surface Temperature more steady, as 45 degrees is too hot, and having a temperature of 40-45 degrees is not good, it's needs to be much more consistent, and not go above 43.5 degrees. The reason i'm making a big deal about this is because they have not eaten anything yet, and they are already way too dehydrated, so if their Basking spot Surface Temp gets up as high as 45 degrees, this could be literally fatal.

And please, please, don't simply "Mist" them right now, that's not good enough, you need to drip water on each of their snouts individually, let them lick it off, drip, lick, drip, etc. and allow each to have as much water as they want, only stopping when each baby stops licking it off or walks away. You have to realize that they have gotten no food since they hatched, which also means no water, and they're going to die if you don't MAKE CERTAIN that these 6 babies start taking in adequate water through their mouths at least 2-3 times a day, and "Misting" them is not going to do it. You can start "Misting" them 2-3 times a day ONCE THEY START EATING LIVE INSECTS, but until that happens, you must start dripping water on each of their snouts and give them as much as they want 2-3 times a day. You can mist them as well, but please take the time to individually give them each water 2-3 times a day until they start eating the live crickets, as this is the only way you're going to keep them alive at this point. Hydration BY MOUTH is much more important right at this moment than the nutrition is, that will come with you finally getting their temperatures correct, their UVB tube within 6" and not obstructed, and you completely stop all the Baths! (I FORGOT TO MENTION, I THINK, MAKE SURE THAT THE FIXTURE YOUR UVB TUBE IS IN HAS NO CLEAR, PLASTIC COVER ON IT'S BOTTOM, AS IT LOOKS LIKE A ZILLA SLIMLINE FIXTURE, WHICH USUALLY COMES WITH A CLEAR, PLASTIC COVER SCREWED-ON THE BOTTOM WHICH COVERS THE UVB TUBE, AND BLOCKS 100% OF THE UVB LIGHT, NO UVB LIGHT PENETRATES CLEAR PLASTIC OR GLASS, SO PLEASE DOUBLE-CHECK THAT AND REMOVE IT IMMEDIATELY IF THERE IS A COVER)...

******Also, I would move the UVB tube more towards the middle of tub, away from the side of the tube, as you're losing some of the UVB light right off the side of the tube. Be sure that you do go out and buy a Halogen Indoor FLOOD Bulb...I'm glad AHBD pointed this out, as I hadn't seen the photos when I posted the first couple of posts, but you cannot use a SPOT Bulb, as this is why your Basking Spot Surface Temperature is so inconsistent, it's focusing the light/heat on one little spot/area, and the rest of the tub is whatever it is, definitely too cold. A Halogen FLOOD Bulb will keep the temperature consistent and the entire tub warm. This way they will all get bright-white light, heat, and the UVB/UVA light at the same time, which is exactly what they need...

******Something else that is going to be extremely important, you mentioned that you have 20 more fertile eggs going to hatch, PLEASE DO NOT PUT THESE NEW BABIES IN WITH THE 6 DRAGONS THAT ARE SICK...First of all, you need to keep them separate so that you know which ones they are, so you can keep providing them adequate hydration by mouth 2-3 times each day, and you absolutely must keep very close track of how many crickets they are eating. In addition, these 6 little guys are already extremely stressed out and need to be able to eat the crickets freely, without competition, and if you throw-in more babies with them it's going to cause them far too much stress and will keep them from eating...You have to realize that now that you know what you were doing wrong, the rest of the babies that are going to hatch are going to be kept in the correct temperatures, UVB, etc. right from day 1, and they're going to be eating tons and tons of live crickets and be healthy and active...So if you throw them in with the 6 sick babies, they are going to completely dominate them, take all the food, they'll drink all the water when you mist them, and they will just totally overwhelm them. So you're absolutely going to have to set-up more plastic tubs with more adequate UVB tubes and bright-white Basking Bulbs over each tub, that's just what you get when you breed them...I'm assuming you're prepared already with several other plastic tubs, UVB tubes, Basking Bulbs/Clamp Lamps for them, etc., but I just wanted to make sure that you are fully aware that you absolutely cannot put any of the other babies that are going to be hatching in with these 6 sick ones that are going to continue to need special attention and care, and that cannot be dominated or overwhelmed by other healthy babies who will eat all the food and drink all of the water, etc.

It's O.K to mist them but definitely not excessively , the point is to get the water on the surfaces around them but using an eyedropper to hydrate them is a good choice too.

Got a thermostat to fix in tomorrow for them.
Also wanted to ask, what is the ideal night temp pls?

I will make an effort so they will survive. I will follow each step all of you gave me. Hopefully tomorrow they will feel better. Will keep you all updated.

Thanks

At night, 68-78 is fine, they are young + have had a bit of a hard start so it's O.K for them to be on the warm side, but no higher than that. And yes, please do update....I know you've had a lot to try + figure out as quickly as possible but you're obviously doing your best and really care for the babies. We all wish them the best I'm sure.

Yes, keep us updated...We do care, greatly, otherwise we wouldn't be making such an effort to help...I apologize if I came off as direct, just trying to get the information you need across directly, as they had a very rough start to life. I hope that they make it, they should as long as they start eating...