Bearded dragon only wakes up if I wake her

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Benji27

Member
I bought a 6 month old female bearded dragon 2 weeks ago and she’s been hiding away and sleeping since I’ve had her. If I didn’t wake her up to eat she wouldn’t. When she’s awake she seeems fine, alert and healthy but as soon as I stop feeding/handling her she’ll just go back into her hide. At first I thought this behaviour was due to her settling in but it’s been two weeks. I’ve been feeding her locust, wax worms, dubia roaches and morio worms dusted in calcium and she’ll eat a small variety each day (only when I wake her).
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The substrate is an Exo Terra sand mat, she has a water bowl and I offer her a salad of Kale, Rocket leaves, carrots, and a small amount of red pepper and apple. She has not touched her salad since I’ve had her but I am aware she’s only 6 months so might not be interested. She has a 75W heat lamp and a 24” uvb bulb.

Can anyone give me some advice as I’m afraid she won’t get enough light as she hides all day and night.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Hello, welcome to the forums! Congrats on your new beardie!

It's true that there is a "relocation stress" period sometimes when they first go to a new home, or even a new tank, but it usually lasts no longer than 2 weeks, and it doesn't typically represent itself by constant sleeping and hiding away like you're describing, but rather a slow or non-existent appetite and some skittish behavior. What you're describing sounds like a problem with lighting, temperatures, or a problem that existed before you got her due to inadequate husbandry, and now it's continuing.

Where did you get her from at 6 months? Do you know any of her history? She's still a juvenile, but 6 months is certainly enough time to cause issues that would cause her to hide away from lights, for example an eye issue due to the prior owner using a coil UVB bulb.

6 months is almost always too young for them to go into a brumation, so I'm fairly certain that's not what she's doing...Was she sleeping all the time before you got her? (If you know the answer to that, say if you got her at a pet shop, was she awake and alert in her tank there?)

You said you have a 24" long UVB tube, but what strength is the UVB tube (T8 or T5), what is the wattage of the tube, and what brand is the tube? (All of this information will be printed right on the tube itself) Do you have it mounted inside the tank so that it's unobstructed, or is the tube sitting on top of any type of mesh lid? Did you check to make sure that the tube fixture that the UVB tube is sitting inside has no clear, plastic cover on it's bottom that is covering the UVB tube itself? Most tube fixtures do not have this, but there are some brands who insist on putting a clear, plastic cover on the bottom of the fixture, which covers the UVB tube, and this clear plastic tube blocks 100% of the UVB light emitted by the UVB tube, as no strength of UVB light can at all penetrate any type of glass or clear plastic. So double check, and if there is any type of cover over the UVB tube, you must remove it immediately, just an FYI.

How far away, in inches, is the UVB tube from her basking spot/platform? And how many hours per day are you leaving both the UVB tube and her basking light on? Looking at your photo it appears that your UVB tube is mounted up against the back wall of the enclosure, and it has no metal reflector behind it...can you verify that? This may not have anything to do with the current issue, but it can and most likely will cause a serious problem in the future, as when you have an enclosure built and they put the long, tube fixture like that against the back wall of the tank, and it's the type of fixture where the tube hangs down and there is no where for a reflector to be inserted behind the tube, then 50% of the UVB light is just bounced off of the back wall of the tank and lost, that's problem #1, and then problem #2 is that in a large enclosure like this, if there is no reflector behind the UVB tube, then basically the only place in the tank where there is adequate UVB light is directly underneath the tube itself. You need a metal reflector in any type of large enclosure like this, to reflect adequate UVB light throughout the tank...

As far as the temperature zones inside the tank go, what type of thermometer are you using to measure them? And then what are the temperature readings for the Cool Side Ambient/Air Temp, the Hot Side Ambient/Air Temp, and then the Basking Spot Surface Temp?

The UVB light issue can easily be remedied by ordering a clip-on reflector that is the length of the UVB tube itself (not the length of the fixture, sometimes they are not the same length, for instance you can have a 22" UVB tube inside a 24" fixture, in this example you would want to order a 22" clip-on reflector). You can order a clip-on reflector cheaply on Amazon.com, I know that Arcadia brand makes them, as well as many others. This will not only keep half of the UVB light from being bounced off the back wall, but it will fill the enclosure with adequate UVB light for her.

That's just an aside, most likely isn't what is causing her to sleep all the time as of now, but it could be the brand of UVB tube that is causing that, but I think it is either a problem with the temperature zones inside the tank, or it's a health issue that existed before you got her. But try to fill in the blanks and we'll go from there.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
That's a beautiful home for your dragon, you obviously put a lot of thought in to the design. :) This would be relocation stress. On top of that you have a heavily planted [ although fake ] tank so there are plenty of places for her to hide. I'd advise getting rid of the greenery, some dragons will eat it. Too bad because it looks so pretty in the tank. Another potential problem may be that the uvb is sort of behind the plants + it may be blocking some uvb.

The dragon should be settling in after 2 weeks, if she's still hiding in another week you might want to take out the hides + the plants and just leave some nice basking logs + climbing areas.
 

Benji27

Member
Original Poster
EllenD":30x7cf0w said:
Hello, welcome to the forums! Congrats on your new beardie!

It's true that there is a "relocation stress" period sometimes when they first go to a new home, or even a new tank, but it usually lasts no longer than 2 weeks, and it doesn't typically represent itself by constant sleeping and hiding away like you're describing, but rather a slow or non-existent appetite and some skittish behavior. What you're describing sounds like a problem with lighting, temperatures, or a problem that existed before you got her due to inadequate husbandry, and now it's continuing.

Where did you get her from at 6 months? Do you know any of her history? She's still a juvenile, but 6 months is certainly enough time to cause issues that would cause her to hide away from lights, for example an eye issue due to the prior owner using a coil UVB bulb.

I got her from a local breeder, she appeared to also be selling 3 more 6 month old dragons, siblings to mine but I’m afraid I have no idea of her history, diet or lighting!

6 months is almost always too young for them to go into a brumation, so I'm fairly certain that's not what she's doing...Was she sleeping all the time before you got her? (If you know the answer to that, say if you got her at a pet shop, was she awake and alert in her tank there?)

I have no idea of her habits before hand either:(

You said you have a 24" long UVB tube, but what strength is the UVB tube (T8 or T5), what is the wattage of the tube, and what brand is the tube? (All of this information will be printed right on the tube itself) Do you have it mounted inside the tank so that it's unobstructed, or is the tube sitting on top of any type of mesh lid? Did you check to make sure that the tube fixture that the UVB tube is sitting inside has no clear, plastic cover on it's bottom that is covering the UVB tube itself? Most tube fixtures do not have this, but there are some brands who insist on putting a clear, plastic cover on the bottom of the fixture, which covers the UVB tube, and this clear plastic tube blocks 100% of the UVB light emitted by the UVB tube, as no strength of UVB light can at all penetrate any type of glass or clear plastic. So double check, and if there is any type of cover over the UVB tube, you must remove it immediately, just an FYI.

Its a T8 Arcadia bulb which doesn’t currently have a reflector but have just this minute ordered one for it. It’s also mounted inside the tank unobstructed and roughly 8 inches away from her basking spot!

How far away, in inches, is the UVB tube from her basking spot/platform? And how many hours per day are you leaving both the UVB tube and her basking light on? Looking at your photo it appears that your UVB tube is mounted up against the back wall of the enclosure, and it has no metal reflector behind it...can you verify that? This may not have anything to do with the current issue, but it can and most likely will cause a serious problem in the future, as when you have an enclosure built and they put the long, tube fixture like that against the back wall of the tank, and it's the type of fixture where the tube hangs down and there is no where for a reflector to be inserted behind the tube, then 50% of the UVB light is just bounced off of the back wall of the tank and lost, that's problem #1, and then problem #2 is that in a large enclosure like this, if there is no reflector behind the UVB tube, then basically the only place in the tank where there is adequate UVB light is directly underneath the tube itself. You need a metal reflector in any type of large enclosure like this, to reflect adequate UVB light throughout the tank...

As far as the temperature zones inside the tank go, what type of thermometer are you using to measure them? And then what are the temperature readings for the Cool Side Ambient/Air Temp, the Hot Side Ambient/Air Temp, and then the Basking Spot Surface Temp?

I had a Exo Terra thermometer that was already fitted with the tank when I bought it and it didn’t seem to be working correctly. As I live miles and miles away from any reptile shop I have to order and buy everything online so I’m waiting for two new ones to arrive as previously there was just a single one centre of the tank. This may be the problem!

The UVB light issue can easily be remedied by ordering a clip-on reflector that is the length of the UVB tube itself (not the length of the fixture, sometimes they are not the same length, for instance you can have a 22" UVB tube inside a 24" fixture, in this example you would want to order a 22" clip-on reflector). You can order a clip-on reflector cheaply on Amazon.com, I know that Arcadia brand makes them, as well as many others. This will not only keep half of the UVB light from being bounced off the back wall, but it will fill the enclosure with adequate UVB light for her.

That's just an aside, most likely isn't what is causing her to sleep all the time as of now, but it could be the brand of UVB tube that is causing that, but I think it is either a problem with the temperature zones inside the tank, or it's a health issue that existed before you got her. But try to fill in the blanks and we'll go from there.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me with this! Everything I’ve ordered should be arriving in the next day or two so I’ll keep you updated but really appreciate your help!
 

Benji27

Member
Original Poster
AHBD":2x475psy said:
That's a beautiful home for your dragon, you obviously put a lot of thought in to the design. :) This would be relocation stress. On top of that you have a heavily planted [ although fake ] tank so there are plenty of places for her to hide. I'd advise getting rid of the greenery, some dragons will eat it. Too bad because it looks so pretty in the tank. Another potential problem may be that the uvb is sort of behind the plants + it may be blocking some uvb.

The dragon should be settling in after 2 weeks, if she's still hiding in another week you might want to take out the hides + the plants and just leave some nice basking logs + climbing areas.

Yes she likes to hide under them so I’ll get rid! I think maybe it’s a combination of things I haven’t quite done right, hopefully I can find the issue and rectify ASAP! Thank you for your advice!
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Yeah, I think she's going to be fine, if you ordered a reflector for the UVB tube that will help tremendously, I was going to say that you can even make a reflector out of some of that heavy-duty aluminum foil that you can shape around behind the tube. It's just always a good idea with larger enclosures that you have a reflector to ensure that adequate UVB light is being reflected throughout the enclosure, and yes, moving or getting rid of some of the plants will give her less options of places to hide.

The reason I asked about her history is that any time someone brings home a dragon that isn't a month or two old, there may be some health issues that are coming along with the dragon, due to the first owner's husbandry. At 6 months old the prior owner or the pet shop (if you bought her at a pet shop( probably got her when she was around a month or so old, so 4-5 months under an inadequate UVB light, for example, is certainly enough time for a calcium deficiency to start to cause issues. The good news about that is that she's young and looks nice a big and health, and any type of nutritional deficiency that may have already started will quickly be remedied.
 

Benji27

Member
Original Poster
Both thermometers and the uvb reflector came today and the cool side temperature reads about 82 F/ 28 C and the hotter side reads around 115 F/ 46 C which i think is much too hot?
 

VenusAndSaturn

Sub-Adult Member
Yes 115 is way too hot, it should never go above 110. Best to maintain temps between 100-110 and no higher, 105 seems to work well for most.
The cool side is perfect at 82, just make sure it doesn't go higher than 85.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
How's she doing? Has she started to have some more energy yet? Is she eating alright?

I'm assuming you took Venus's advice and got that Basking Spot Surface Temp down under 110 degrees, as she mentioned 105 degrees seems to be a nice happy median Basking Spot Surface Temp, with a Hot Side Ambient/Air Temp around 90 (no higher than 93) and a Cool Side Ambient/Air around 80.

An important FYI just in case you weren't aware, at nighttime most people need no heat source on at all, as the Australian Desert is obviously very cool at night, even cold, and as long as her tank doesn't drop below 65 degrees at night then you need absolutely no heat source on at all. And with a wooden enclosure I can't imagine her tank would drop below 65 degrees, unless you freeze yourself at night and keep your house below 60 degrees! A lot of people are very well-meaning and put night bulbs or high-wattage CHE's on at night, putting their tank temps over 80 degrees at night, and both the heat and the light at night very much disrupts their sleep.

Keep us posted on how she's doing!
 

Benji27

Member
Original Poster
I have changed the basking bulb from 75 to a 50watt bulb and the temperature is now a perfect 105 F and the cool side is now 80 F. I’ve also read up on not keeping a water bowl in their tanks as it messes around with the humidity levels so she no longer has one and I’ll mist her a few times daily instead. Is this a good thing to do? She’s stopped hiding as much now which I’m pleased about but just waiting for her appetite to improve as she only has 1-2 locust, 1-2 wax worms and 1-2 morio worms a day and which I don’t think is enough. She seems to have plenty of energy despite this though and still looks very well!
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
It will take her a bit to get her energy back and her appetite back to normal, but she's on the upswing, so that's awesome...

As far as the water bowl goes, it really has very little to do with the "humidity" in the tank at all. Bearded Dragons can live within a wide range of humidity levels, and it's rarely ever even mentioned or an issue; they can live in 10% humidity all the way up to 70% humidity and they're fine, it's not like a Tropical Reptile at all.

The issue with a water bowl is that #1) Most Dragons won't drink from them, as they have little to no concept of "standing water" at all, as there is very little to no standing water in the Australian Desert, and they get most all of their hydration from fresh vegetation and live bugs. So having a water bowl inside the tank is sometimes unnecessary...and #2) Dragons have a horrible habit of falling asleep in their water bowls overnight, which causes them to become extremely chilled and can kill a cold-blooded lizard easily.

Now, that being said, there are Dragons who will often drink from a water bowl or a bath...In the first 13 years of owning my first Dragon I had never seen him drink from a bowl, the bath, nothing, and then I got my second Dragon, who is now a year and 2 months old, and she actually likes baths (likes swimming really), but will not drink the warm bath water ever...however, she has always been one to drink from her bowl, especially since a put an air-stone in the bottom of it attached to an air pump, she loves it. She's now large enough that I don't have to worry about her falling asleep in the water bowl, so it stays in her enclosure, on the Cool Side of the tank.

However, my third Dragon, who is now 8 months old (I got him at 3 weeks old) also drinks from a bowl (never a bath), so I also keep a water bowl in his enclosure on the Cool Side, so the water stays cool, but I remove it every night before I turn out his lights. Then I don't have to worry about it.

And then this new rescue Dragon who has been here 2 and a half weeks now, Fender, who I'm guessing is between 1 and 2 years old, based on his love of any types of greens and veggies and his 20" length, he actually gulps water from a bowl. At first I thought it was because he had been outside for weeks or months when he was found, and he was just thirsty/dehydrated, but he still literally gulps water every day from the bowl. So he has a bowl in his tank too; it's a temporary tank right now, i'm working on building him an enclosure right now, i'm waiting on the sliding glass door rails I ordered to come, along with a new T5 tube fixture and the basking fixtures, but I'm thinking I'll put a permanent water pool in his enclosure too.

So the bottom line is that if your baby actually drinks from the bowl, then there's nothing wrong at all with keeping it in his tank/enclosure, it will not effect the humidity in any way that will matter, and if you keep the water bowl on the Cool Side of the tank it won't effect the humidity much anyway. If he doesn't every drink from the water bowl then there's no reason to have it in there. I do advise you to remove it every night before you turn his lights out, since he's still a small baby and you don't want him to fall asleep in it.

The best way to give your Dragon hydration is to drip water from either an eyedropper or an oral syringe onto the tip of his snout, so the water will run down over his lips. Do this until he starts licking it off, and if he want a drink he'll keep licking the water off as you keep dripping it, and you can do this until he stops licking the water off. This is a much better way of ensuring that he's actually getting hydration, as with misting they don't have to bother with licking water droplets off of things, they may just totally ignore it or not understand the point, but if you drip the water drops directly on his snout and he licks them off, then he's going to get the point quickly and drink until he's not thirsty anymore. I do this at least 2 times a day, in the morning after they eat and then in the evening after they eat, sometimes I'll do it a third time with my little guy, since he always seems to be thirsty and at his bowl gulping the water.
 

Benji27

Member
Original Poster
Ah thank you for that useful information, i had no idea! I’ve seen her drinking from it before so I’ll leave it in for her in the day and remove it at night. Thank you for your advice as I’m not experienced in owning bearded dragons as she is my first! Yes I think she’s on the way up now, but I’ll definitely still keep you updated if she doesn’t get any better!
 
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