Dragon is not interested in eating anymore. Brumation?

This is my first bearded dragon, is just about 10 months old and since early December he has no interest in eating anything. I got him when he was 3 months old and normally he would eat about 20 dubia roaches every day and a little bit of salad. But for the past 10 weeks whenever i feed him he just looks uninterested in eating anything. He doesn't really seem to be loosing a lot of weight. He still looks pretty full to me.

He might eat 2 dubias a week and poops maybe once every 10 days. ( He was pooping every day before) He is not in any deep sleep like a typical brumation but he is napping alot on his hammock away from basking spot.

He has a reptisun t5 10.0 uvb 24" bulb that is on from 7am to 9pm. His basking spot stays around 103-108 deg. I have him in a exo-terra terrarium 36" wide 24" tall. His dubias are dusted with repashy calcium plus every time.

I though brumation is usually for dragons over 1 year old? Should I take him to vet? Or maybe buy a new uvb bulb? Or does this sound like normal brumation, and if so how long can it last?

Thank-you in advance.

Hello,

It is a little common for them to go into brumation under one year of age.
Has he lost any weight that you can tell?
It sounds like typical behavior for a sleepy dragon. They will sleep a little more & not eat
as much. The brumation phases range from a week or two until a few months.
The T5 Reptisun 10 should be more than adequate for him. Is it less than a year old too?
If you can post pictures of him & his tank setup that would be helppful too.

Tracie

I was going to ask for photos of his tank and set-up as well, as well as photos of him...

Are you weighing him to make sure he is not losing any weight? If not, I would invest $15 in a digital kitchen scale from Walmart and start weighing him daily, as if it is a brumation or more like a partial brumation, he shouldn't lose more than the typical 20-25 grams after a poop. And the fact that he's not having bowel movements as often as he used to isn't necessarily an issue either, they do go less often as they get older.

This sounds like a normal slow-down period that most all dragons go through as they start to enter puberty and into adulthood. Typically they do go through a period where they eat less, specifically they start eating less live insects (eventually they start eating more and more greens/veggies, so be sure that you are putting a fresh salad inside his tank every day, because I wouldn't be surprised if he suddenly starts chowing down on the fresh salads daily instead of the bugs, I just went through this a few months ago with my female who is now 1 year and 2 months old).

The one question I will ask is what type of thermometer you are using to measure the temperature zones inside his tank?

Other than that, I don't think it's really a brumation, but rather just the typical slow-down period that they go through when starting to enter puberty/adulthood, which usually happens sometime between the ages of 7 months old and a year or so old. They just suddenly start to slow down a bit, they may sleep a bit more (but not a lot more sleep, just a bit more laziness), they stop eating as many live insects as they used to, in fact they typically drastically cut-down the amount of live insects they eat, and usually they will suddenly just start eating a ton of salad. It's not really a brumation, typically when that happens they stay away from the lights and hide in or underneath something all day long, and just spend all day sleeping, even in a "partial" brumation, they still sleep most of the day away, but they wake up once a day or so and still eat a bit of solid food, though not much. This doesn't sound like that, it just sounds like he's growing up and in the middle of his switch from juvenile to sub-adult. They also typically like it if you drop their Basking Spot Surface Temperature down from being between the 105-110 degree range to the 100-105 degree range, that may prompt him to become a bit more alert, so if his Basking Spot Surface Temperature is now over 105 degrees, try raising the basking bulb up a couple of inches to get the Basking Spot Temp down to around 100 degrees or so, this can actually make a huge difference for them.

Thanks for the responses. I do feel a better!!

Drache- My bulb I bought brand new on amazon July 2017 so its about 7 months old. It should be good for about a year?

Ellen- I just bought a scale on amazon today so I can start weighing him. Visually he doesn't look to have lost weight. I just measured and he is 18 inches long. For thermometers I have a few cheap ones placed in different areas. One has a probe on his basking spot and one in the cool spot. I also have a zoo med infared thermometer too.

I will drop the basking spot a bit and see if that helps. So should I offer roaches every few days instead of everyday like I have been? I will continue to offer daily salads.

Hello,

Yes, the T5 Reptisuns should last a year, probably longer. If you have a UVB meter, you can
test it to see the output so you can be sure what the output is before replacing it.
The thermometer with the probe should be fine for measuring the basking area. Most adults
or juveniles tend to like it a little less hot, so you can change that to a little cooler temp to
see if that helps.
Unless he is losing weight, I wouldn't worry too much. We had a 6 month old dragon bromated
for months & was fine. He did weigh 500 grams at that age & was healthy so it is a natural
behavior for them.

Tracie

Yep, everything sounds just fine. The reason I asked what thermometer you have is because I wanted to make sure that you had either a Temp Gun or a Digital Probe Thermometer in order to measure his Basking Spot Surface Temp, a lot of people have only a stick-on thermometer in the Hot Side of the tank stuck to the glass, and they mistakenly thing that this is reading the dragon's Basking Spot Temperature, which causes a major issue of dehydration and heat exhaustion, because they aim to get that stick-on thermometer in the Hot Side of the tank up to between 105-110 degrees, thinking it's the Basking Spot Temperature, when in reality it's the Hot Side Ambient/Air Temperature, which should only read between 88-93 degrees. So this is a huge mistake. Obviously that's not the case with your dragon, so that's awesome.

I agree, I don't think you have a problem here at all, it's just the typical transitional slow-down period that they go through. I wouldn't stop offering him the live insects every day, let him make the decision to switch himself over to mostly greens/veggies on his own. Just don't get worried if he refuses the live bugs a lot of the time, as this is a normal behavioral change. I'd offer him his live insects normally, but do make sure to give him a nice, large, fresh salad every single day after you offer the live bugs. And once you see that he's eating the entire fresh salad you're feeding him daily, then make it a bit larger, just to ensure that he's getting all the fresh greens/veggies that he wants.

Some very experienced Dragon owners stop offering their Dragons live insect protein every day once they switch themselves over to eating fresh salad every day, and they only offer live bugs a couple of times a week, some people only offer live bugs once a week, or even once every other week once they turn a year old. I haven't every subscribed to that philosophy at all, I'm one who has always offered my guys live bugs every single day along with their fresh salad every day. They don't always want or eat the live bugs, and that's fine, that's their choice, but I let it be their choice. My first Dragon always loved greens/veggies from the time he was a month old, so he switched himself over to fresh salad every day very early-on, and though I would offer him his live BSFL and a Superworm every day, he wouldn't always take it. in complete contrast, my current girl, who is a year and 2 months old right now, never ever like her salad at all, and would eat an enormous amount of live bugs. She switched herself over to eating a large, fresh salad every day about 3 or 4 months ago, but she still wants her live bugs every single day, just not as many. So I offer both every day, and I let them choose...

Thanks again the the responses. I went to my local reptile breeder and he suggested that my beardie's lack of appatite is due to cold night temps. He suggested I get a ceramic heat emitter for night time to raise the temps up to 75-80 deg. Currently my house is usually around 70 deg at night? Any truth to this?

Hello,

Usually they can sustain temps in the 60's at night & be fine. They need a cool down to sleep.
During the winter, in cooler weather they do naturally tend to slow down. Using a ceramic
heat emitter to get the temperatures up to the 70's that would be fine, too.
How is he doing today?

Tracie

I totally disagree with the reptile guy you spoke to, the nighttime temperature has absolutely nothing to do with his appetite slow-down. Now sometimes just the winter season change will cause a normal appetite slow-down, as they can sense the change in Barometric Pressure outside even though they don't feel the cold. But as Tracie said, DRAGONS COME NATURALLY FROM THE AUSTRALIAN DESERT, WHICH GETS VERY COOL, EVEN COLD AT NIGHT, EVERY NIGHT, ALL YEAR ROUND, AND SO THEY NOT ONLY WANT THE TEMPERATURE AT NIGHT TO BE COOL, THEY REQUIRE IT TO SLEEP COMFORTABLY. If you raise his nighttime temperature up to 80 degrees he will stop sleeping soundly, and this will start to cause daily stress, and this will then result in real health issues. Right now what is going on is a natural progression of growth and aging that all dragons go through, with maybe a little "Winter Blues" that is also natural, but it's not a problem.

Dragons sleep very, very comfortably down to about 63 degrees at night, and if your house is around 70 degrees at night already, that means that his tank is probably already around 73-75 degrees at nighttime, which is perfect. He doesn't need it any warmer than that at all. If you were to add even an extremely low wattage CHE, like a 10 watt CHE, it's going to put his nighttime temperature up to 80 degrees or above, probably above, and this will only serve to cause real problems. So please don't add a CHE at night if your house temperature is already at 70 degrees, as his tank will naturally be a few degrees higher than the room temperature it's located in. So his nighttime temperature is totally fine.

Thank you for all the responses I really appreciate it!! I will definitely not add a che during nighttime. I did end up putting another dome light with a household bulb on the cool side of enclosure to bring up temps a little bit during day because that side stayed a little dark and in the low 70's . I just read that it should be closer to 85 deg?

I picked up some reptiworms and he ate about 10 this morning. So that is good. Maybe he is just tired of eating dubia roaches since that is really all i have fed him since I bought him.

Actually the Cool Side Ambient (air) Temperature should only be between 75-80 degrees at an absolute maximum, 85 degrees is too hot. The reason should make sense, in that he ALWAYS must have a place to go to that is CONSIDERABLY COOLER than the rest of the tank...Well, if the Hot Side Ambient (air) Temperature is between 88-93 degrees at all times (it has to be since it surrounds the Basking Spot, which must have a Surface Temperature between 105-110 degrees, so naturally the surrounding Air Temperature must be high enough to support this Basking Spot Surface Temperature located within it), then if you put his Cool Side Ambient (air) Temperature the whole way up to 85 degrees, then it's basically no cooler than the Hot Side of the tank, and he then has no place to go that is much cooler than anywhere else, which can create not only dehydration, but also stress. In addition, when the Cool Side Ambient Temperature is too high, what often happens is the Dragon stops basking all together and starts hiding within the Cool Side of the tank, because they are constantly, always too hot. This in-turn starts digestion problems, and then eventually a calcium deficiency, etc. because they aren't spending any time under the UVB light or within the proper Basking Spot Surface Temperature that allows them to properly digest their food, creating malnutrition and bowel impactions. It's a downward spiral. So please, do not let his Cool Side Ambient Temperature go above 80 degrees, even a bit lower is better.

I also have a secondary Basking Bulb over the Cool Side of all of my enclosures and even my large, glass Exo Terra tank (a little larger than a 40-Gallon Breeder Tank), because #1) the temperature is usually just a tad too cool when only using the one, main Basking Bulb, and then #2) The Cool Side of the tank is much darker than the rest of the tank, though this is a problem for only us, not them, they actually prefer having a darker area to go to when they want to get out from under the bright, constant light of the Hot Side of the tank. However, the secondary Basking Bulbs I have over the Cool Side are all 30 watts at a maximum, they are all just the regular, Halogen Indoor Flood Bulbs, as it's very difficult to find a Reptile Basking Bulb under 50 watts. And their Cool Side Ambient Temperatures never, ever go above 80 degrees, usually they are around 77-78 degrees, but 80 at an absolute maximum. 85 degrees is way too hot, as again, this gets rid of ANY separation in Ambient temperature across the tank at all, and this is not good. So please make sure that his Cool Side Ambient Temp is no hotter than 80 degrees. If you go to any Walmart you'll find many low-wattage, Halogen Indoor Flood Bulbs that fit into the regular light bulb sockets, and they are cheap. Walmart is the only place I've seen so many different, low-wattage Indoor Flood Bulb options that are Halogen (the only thing you find at Lowes, Home Depot, etc. any more are the LED versions, which obviously won't work). But Walmart sells Halogen Indoor Flood Bulbs that are 30 watts, 38 watts, 42 watts, etc. And they only cost a couple of dollars.

As far as the worms go, yes, they do often get bored eating the same thing every day, I would too so I don't blame them, lol. Often times if you switch their live insects this will get them eating normally again and snap them out of the Winter appetite slow-down.

The Reptiworms are one of the healthiest live staple feeder insects you can feed your dragon, i've been feeding them solely for years and I've never had a single health or growth issue. They have many, many brand names including Reptiworms, Calciworms, NutriGrubs, and most commonly Phoenix Worms or BSFL (Black Soldier-Fly Larva), all of these are exactly the same thing. If your dragon likes them, then I highly recommend ordering some size Large BSFL online for him, as I've never been able to find them locally sold in high quantities, and I think Petco ridiculously sells a little cup of 25 of them for like $4.25, and most of them are tiny little things. It's ridiculous. Maybe you're lucky enough to have an independent pet shop that sells them cheaply in bulk, that would be awesome, but if not then I suggest ordering them online, the cheapest 2 places that I've been using for years are www.dubiaroaches.com and www.symtonbsf.com I order 1,000 size Large every month from the first place for about $24 shipped, and the second place isn't much more expensive. You can buy 100, 200, 300, 500, etc. and you can set-up regular monthly auto-shipping so you get them on time.

BSFL have the highest natural calcium content of any live feeder insect, they are very low fat, very high in healthy, non purine-based protein, and also extremely high in fluids/hydration. So they make an ideal live feeder insect. Always order size Large, even for a small baby, as because they are soft-bodied worms the size doesn't hurt them, and the size smalls and mediums are a joke, which you know if you have happened to buy one of those cups from Petco, lol. The size Larges from both the places above are nice a big, and I never end-up with any dead worms. Always feed the darkest colored worms first, as they are the closest to turning, and they also contain the highest calcium content. You cannot keep them in a refrigerator because it's too cold for BSFL and it will kill them, but you can make them dormant safely if you have a cool area to your house, such as a basement or a garage. They can be kept in temperatures down to the mid-40's and they'll live, but anything below 40 degrees will kill them. I keep mine in a big plastic tub from Walmart down in my basement, which I keep in the high 40's to the mid-50's if I'm not down there working (I have a split-level house and the basement contains my workshop). I put an inch or two of either Oat Bran or Oat Meal in the bottom of the plastic tub as a healthy substrate, and then every morning I throw in a handful of the same fresh greens and veggies that I give my dragons, so that the BSFL gut-load themselves. I also peel a few slices of apples and throw them in weekly to provide them with hydration, and change them out weekly.

I go down to the basement with a smaller container and I scoop up the amount of BSFL that I need for that particular feeding. Then I bring them upstairs in the small container and run them under luke-warm water to wake them up, until they start moving around, then I dust them and feed them to my dragons. Some BSFL vendors will tell you that you don't need to dust them in a Calcium powder because they naturally contain enough calcium that dusting them isn't necessary, however, this isn't true and is a gamble that I've never been willing to take, so I dust them in calcium 5 days a week and in a multivitamin 3 days a week, and not only have I never had a calcium deficiency, but I've also never had any signs of giving them too much calcium. What the vendors don't tell you is that it's only the very dark-colored BSFL that contain enough calcium that you wouldn't need to dust them, not the lighter colored ones, although they do contain a higher amount of calcium than any type of crickets, roaches, etc. do.

Great info. Thanks.
Is there any benefit of a halogen flood bulb vs a regular household bulb vs led bulb ( Ive seen one that was 7 watts with 5000 kelvin which I heard is good)?

FYI Just got my scale in the mail. My male beardie is 450grams which as far as I can tell is a healthy weight.

450 grams is a good weight. Now you have a baseline...Keep in mind that they generally lose up to 25 grams or so after a bowel movement, sometimes people forget that and then they freak-out, lol.

As far as using a Halogen Indoor Flood Bulb, there definitely are some advantage, the first being that they are "Flood" Bulbs, meaning that the lights is focused on one spot but then spreads out and fills the space around the spot, while regular halogen light bulbs do not emit a focused beam of light at all, they just emit equal light all around. So that means that with a Flood Bulb you're getting focused light on the basking spot/platform that is directly below the Flood Bulb, but then in addition you're also getting light spread out around the basking spot/platform...The other advantage is that all Halogen Indoor flood Bulbs emit a bright, white-colored light, while most regular household light bulbs emit a "filtered" light that is either yellow or that is muted by the frosting (even the light bulbs labeled as "soft" white are filtered and not bright). The exception that I've found to this are the "clear" bulbs, like the Reveal brand of light bulbs, which actually are very similar to the Neodymium Reptile Basking Bulbs that are sold in pet shops, however they are quite expensive. I actually found out from a friend, and verified, that all Walmarts sell a 75 watt Neodymium Reptile Basking Bulb in the pet section, with the fish aquarium supplies, below the fish food, I think it's a Fluker's brand bulb. It costs around $5 or so, which actually is a good deal, however it's only available in a 75 watt bulb. I know several people who use the Reveal brand "clear" bulbs with great results.

Hello,

The Halogen bulbs that are flood bulbs are very good. They are much brighter than regular
household bulbs. I would steer away from bulbs that have any neodymium coating on them,
as they interfere with the yellow in the color spectrum. It's nice to have 5000-6500K for the
brightness factor for them, too.
How is your boy doing today?

Tracie

Drache613":119jjgyq said:

Hello,

The Halogen bulbs that are flood bulbs are very good. They are much brighter than regular
household bulbs. I would steer away from bulbs that have any neodymium coating on them,
as they interfere with the yellow in the color spectrum. It's nice to have 5000-6500K for the
brightness factor for them, too.
How is your boy doing today?

Tracie

Click to expand...

He seems to be getting better! He did eat a few dubias and seems to be a little more active.

I have been trying to find a good bulb with 5000k for his cool side. I did find a 7w phillips LED 5000k. I havent heard many people using LED. Any thing I should be worried about. His cage looks great with it on