dewittfamily
Member
Hello, everyone. This is my first post but everyone here seems wonderful. I did a lot of research before getting beardies for my 7 and 8 year old boys. Most of it was right here on this site, so I started off right instead of listening to chain store advice on setup and care. Telonic is NOT doing well, and I need some advice. My little boy is in love with his beardie, and I've grown quite attached myself. Sorry for the length of what follows, but I know to help you need the info.
- Male beardie, juvenile, about 8 months old. Purchased from PetSmart (I know now, bad move - we got our other little guy from a reputable breeder)
- Have him in a split 40gl exoterra tank. There is another tank waiting on the shelf so they both get their own in another month or 2. Both sides have the exact same setup with lights of their own.
- Substrate has always been reptile carpet or paper towels, never anything loose.
- Lighting consists of 125 MVB and a reptisun 10.0 T5 HO
- Basking spot temps between 105 and 112 F
- Cool side temps between 85 and 90 F
- Temps read by digital probe thermometers, one in hot zone and one in cool zone, and also with a temp gun. Temp gun does tend to read 3-5 degrees higher than probes.
- Humidity between 30-40%
- Diet consists of crickets, dubia, and occasional hornworms. All are gutload fed and kept in clean conditions. Veggies a problem, can barely get him to eat any. Have tried multiple methods but easily at less than 5% of his diet. All good stuff - mustard and turnip greens, bok choy, small amounts of bell pepper, green beans, and a dab of strawberrry or blueberry here and there. No lettuce, spinach, or other calcium binding veggies.
- All feeders dusted with mix of reptical with d3 and repashy calcium plus. All veggies sprayed with liquid calcium gluconate supplement.
- Misted daily, bathed 3-4 times per week.
- Hollow log-hide, small food and water dish, and artificial branch are furniture (Have had branch removed for past couple of weeks)
I believe I have him setup very well, right? So here's what's going on with him. Please keep in mind that all along I have continued to research, google, talk to vet, etc...
- Started dragging on belly a bit about 4 weeks ago, but not all the time. I noticed his long left rear toe was swollen and assumed he had hurt it somehow as it is fragile. Called vet and they said probably broken, happens a lot with beardies, unfortunately.
- A week later his dragging had gotten worse, and he seemed to be getting lethargic. Wasn't chasing after food with much vigor but still happy to gobble up if it was close enough to him. Also noticed he was gaping a lot and exhaling. Research led me to have concern for respiratory infection. Made an appt with vet, got me in 3 days later.
- Within that 3 days, poop started getting a little runny and noticed reddish-brown tinge in urate. Took sample on morning of appt and took it with me, now being worried about parasites.
- I was also worried about MBD as his dragging got worse by the day, and I found 2 other toes that looked swollen. Additionally, all of his limbs would shake when he used them to crawl or climb. Not at-rest tremors like videos I have watched, but shaking only when lifting them to move. No twitching in limbs, tail, and no tremors at all when holding him except when he moved his limbs.
- Finally, he had lost a good amount of weight over past week or 2.
- Vet did not do x-rays because she said bone structure seemed strong and appropriate. She immediately said respiratory infection based on symptoms and stringy saliva. No mouth rot or fungus present. Gave me antibiotic to give him for 14 days (today is day 13), and sent stool off for testing. She thought he was just feeling weak and crummy from the infection and said she's call me with results. Weight was 92g.
- 4 days later, results came back with high coccidia levels (I think she said 30 count?) and also some minor pinworms. Appt next day to medicate as they had Ponazuril in stock (was happy it was this instead of sulfate meds based on what I have read).
- In the meantime, I noticed that his left front leg is swollen. Can't imagine trauma as all he had in there was his log hide to climb on as I had taken his other climbing branches out. I raised the floor of his enclosure so he could still be close to lights without having to climb. Temps remained within nominal range by raising MVB slightly.
- Medicated Telonic at appt (and also his next door neighbor, Spike to be safe). Second treatment set for Feb 12th. This was last Friday (6 days ago) and Dr said he should start feeling better by Monday. He actually gained 3g to 95g, so I felt like other meds were helping. She said the swelling in leg could be a few different things, and to watch it for a few days as maybe he did hurt it dragging around and swelling should subside if so. Still no concern from her on MBD when asked again.
- Since then, his dragging has not gotten better (maybe worse, hard to tell). He will NOT go after food, but will eat if I place them right in front of him or hand feed him. Either way, not eating as much. I switched to all dubia since he started to just turn away from crickets. Beard has become black most of the time now. Swelling in his front leg is not worse, but not better. Past 2 days he has eaten less than day before. Bowel movements are daily as always and have gotten a bit more firm but still pretty runny. Seems to be gaping more again. Prefers to hide than to be out, even with temperatures staying what they were before. Have been hydrating by syringe for past 7-10 days with a mix of de-chlorinated water, pedialyte, and liquid calcium in addition to baths and misting to combat dehydration from meds. Finally, I have been giving him acidophilz pro-biotic to help his tummy daily.
Sorry, that was a lot of stuff. Here are my worries and questions that I need your help with:
- He seems to be getting worse not better. Losing appetite and mobility, but still alert with eyes open and head up.
- More research has made me worried about gout? With his swollen limb and couple of swollen toes. Especially since I've switched to almost all dubia and found out yesterday that too much protein makes gout worse, and that dubia do not secrete uric acid, so when eaten they are higher in uric acid, which forms the crystals that make up gout because kidneys can't process correctly.
- Arthritis? A lot of the same symptoms.
- Kidney failure?
- Liver failure?
I am at a loss. His respiratory infection and coccidia call for him to stay warm as part of supportive care treatment. But if he has gout he should be kept cooler as the heat makes gout worse. I do plan on going back to the vet before the 12th, obviously, but can I get some direction from anyone who may have had this experience? Can the coccidia cause the swelling, shaking, and dragging that may go away as the meds do their work? If his kidneys are stressed and he has gout, then I probably shouldn't have continued the antibiotics for his resp infection, right? I keep going in circles at this point. Please help, and thank you for your time!
- Male beardie, juvenile, about 8 months old. Purchased from PetSmart (I know now, bad move - we got our other little guy from a reputable breeder)
- Have him in a split 40gl exoterra tank. There is another tank waiting on the shelf so they both get their own in another month or 2. Both sides have the exact same setup with lights of their own.
- Substrate has always been reptile carpet or paper towels, never anything loose.
- Lighting consists of 125 MVB and a reptisun 10.0 T5 HO
- Basking spot temps between 105 and 112 F
- Cool side temps between 85 and 90 F
- Temps read by digital probe thermometers, one in hot zone and one in cool zone, and also with a temp gun. Temp gun does tend to read 3-5 degrees higher than probes.
- Humidity between 30-40%
- Diet consists of crickets, dubia, and occasional hornworms. All are gutload fed and kept in clean conditions. Veggies a problem, can barely get him to eat any. Have tried multiple methods but easily at less than 5% of his diet. All good stuff - mustard and turnip greens, bok choy, small amounts of bell pepper, green beans, and a dab of strawberrry or blueberry here and there. No lettuce, spinach, or other calcium binding veggies.
- All feeders dusted with mix of reptical with d3 and repashy calcium plus. All veggies sprayed with liquid calcium gluconate supplement.
- Misted daily, bathed 3-4 times per week.
- Hollow log-hide, small food and water dish, and artificial branch are furniture (Have had branch removed for past couple of weeks)
I believe I have him setup very well, right? So here's what's going on with him. Please keep in mind that all along I have continued to research, google, talk to vet, etc...
- Started dragging on belly a bit about 4 weeks ago, but not all the time. I noticed his long left rear toe was swollen and assumed he had hurt it somehow as it is fragile. Called vet and they said probably broken, happens a lot with beardies, unfortunately.
- A week later his dragging had gotten worse, and he seemed to be getting lethargic. Wasn't chasing after food with much vigor but still happy to gobble up if it was close enough to him. Also noticed he was gaping a lot and exhaling. Research led me to have concern for respiratory infection. Made an appt with vet, got me in 3 days later.
- Within that 3 days, poop started getting a little runny and noticed reddish-brown tinge in urate. Took sample on morning of appt and took it with me, now being worried about parasites.
- I was also worried about MBD as his dragging got worse by the day, and I found 2 other toes that looked swollen. Additionally, all of his limbs would shake when he used them to crawl or climb. Not at-rest tremors like videos I have watched, but shaking only when lifting them to move. No twitching in limbs, tail, and no tremors at all when holding him except when he moved his limbs.
- Finally, he had lost a good amount of weight over past week or 2.
- Vet did not do x-rays because she said bone structure seemed strong and appropriate. She immediately said respiratory infection based on symptoms and stringy saliva. No mouth rot or fungus present. Gave me antibiotic to give him for 14 days (today is day 13), and sent stool off for testing. She thought he was just feeling weak and crummy from the infection and said she's call me with results. Weight was 92g.
- 4 days later, results came back with high coccidia levels (I think she said 30 count?) and also some minor pinworms. Appt next day to medicate as they had Ponazuril in stock (was happy it was this instead of sulfate meds based on what I have read).
- In the meantime, I noticed that his left front leg is swollen. Can't imagine trauma as all he had in there was his log hide to climb on as I had taken his other climbing branches out. I raised the floor of his enclosure so he could still be close to lights without having to climb. Temps remained within nominal range by raising MVB slightly.
- Medicated Telonic at appt (and also his next door neighbor, Spike to be safe). Second treatment set for Feb 12th. This was last Friday (6 days ago) and Dr said he should start feeling better by Monday. He actually gained 3g to 95g, so I felt like other meds were helping. She said the swelling in leg could be a few different things, and to watch it for a few days as maybe he did hurt it dragging around and swelling should subside if so. Still no concern from her on MBD when asked again.
- Since then, his dragging has not gotten better (maybe worse, hard to tell). He will NOT go after food, but will eat if I place them right in front of him or hand feed him. Either way, not eating as much. I switched to all dubia since he started to just turn away from crickets. Beard has become black most of the time now. Swelling in his front leg is not worse, but not better. Past 2 days he has eaten less than day before. Bowel movements are daily as always and have gotten a bit more firm but still pretty runny. Seems to be gaping more again. Prefers to hide than to be out, even with temperatures staying what they were before. Have been hydrating by syringe for past 7-10 days with a mix of de-chlorinated water, pedialyte, and liquid calcium in addition to baths and misting to combat dehydration from meds. Finally, I have been giving him acidophilz pro-biotic to help his tummy daily.
Sorry, that was a lot of stuff. Here are my worries and questions that I need your help with:
- He seems to be getting worse not better. Losing appetite and mobility, but still alert with eyes open and head up.
- More research has made me worried about gout? With his swollen limb and couple of swollen toes. Especially since I've switched to almost all dubia and found out yesterday that too much protein makes gout worse, and that dubia do not secrete uric acid, so when eaten they are higher in uric acid, which forms the crystals that make up gout because kidneys can't process correctly.
- Arthritis? A lot of the same symptoms.
- Kidney failure?
- Liver failure?
I am at a loss. His respiratory infection and coccidia call for him to stay warm as part of supportive care treatment. But if he has gout he should be kept cooler as the heat makes gout worse. I do plan on going back to the vet before the 12th, obviously, but can I get some direction from anyone who may have had this experience? Can the coccidia cause the swelling, shaking, and dragging that may go away as the meds do their work? If his kidneys are stressed and he has gout, then I probably shouldn't have continued the antibiotics for his resp infection, right? I keep going in circles at this point. Please help, and thank you for your time!