Beardie in distress

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Dravyn17

Member
Hello all!
I am a new bearded dragon owner, I got Dravyn in October of 17 and she's been doing great. We recently moved to a new house and I've changed up her lights and food. I also got her a bigger tank as she was in a 20 breeder and this one is a 40 breeder. So lots of new things for her.
I've read a lot of the forums on here and have the best of what I believe is the best. I have a 10.0 Raptisun UVB bar as well as a 100 watt ceramic heating light and a 150 W basking bulb As well as an extra red light for heat during the day only. I have been dusting her crickets with calcium plus by Repashy , but do to the small nature of the room we're living in I can't buy large crickets (because they are too loud) so I have been giving her double medium crickets to make up for it.
Here's my question she's been in distress as the color of her under chin has turned darker, she will still eat her crickets but she won't chase after them, she moves around in her tank just not as quick as she used to. I've been giving her baths almost daily and she's been able to poop when doing that, but she still looks like she is in distress (due to her underchin being so dark).
I read on here to give some squash with oil and she will take it from my hand but she won't eat it from the dish. She also doesn't touch her collard greens or small amount of carrots that I give her maybe once a month.
Any ideas? I feel like I've been doing what I have read on here but she is still dark underneath.
Please help!
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there, can you post pics of your dragon as well as the set up ? Here's how :
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them.

I suspect that aside from stress [ going to a new tank is stressful ] that she is too hot. If you have 2 150 watt bulbs, that's way too much. If the CHE is on also then she is nearly cooking. How are you measuring the temps. ? So for right now, definitely turn off the red light + the CHE ASAP. Ofer her a drink by dripping water or spraying on her snout. A bath is fine if she drinks while in there.
 

Dravyn17

Member
Original Poster
Hi!
Thanks for writing back. I use a digital thermometer which now (that I've turned down the CHE and turned off the red light) 92.7 on her basking side and about 80 on her cold side
96805-4562226888.jpg
96805-7124506677.jpg

However I literally seconds ago turned off the red light and set the dimmer on the CHE to low so I don't think the tank has had time to drop too much.
Also, something I thought about. I live in New Hampshire and it is winter (obviously) and we have a ton of snow which means that our heat is running as well, so it is dry in the house. I was wondering if a humidifier in my small room would help to keep her tank moist as well (I only have a dial thermometer and hydrometer on her cold side, I know I need to get a digital one). Right now her hydrometer reads 30% however I know they are known to be in accurate.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Very nice set up , your girl looks good + healthy from those pics . :) Did you check the temp. before you turned off the extra lights ? At 92 it's a little low now but you can just cover part of the tank with a towel or add a small watt bulb, maybe 40. It is a bit too dry, an easy fix is to mist the tank twice a day.
 

Dravyn17

Member
Original Poster
Thank you! She loves it too, when she is happy. I didn't see it before, but it hardly ever gets higher then 93 She seems to be moving around a LOT more then when the other lights were on. The temp now is 85.5 And got as low as 80 (then she got darker and stopped moving so much) so I dialed up her CHE and am keeping the red light off. And as far as getting the humidity up what should it be?
96805-2533153841.jpg
her digital now reads 88.2 degrees
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
That's sounds good, put the CHE on low. Glad to hear she's looking better already. :) And the humidity is not TOO low, but on the verge so just spritz the tank with a spray bottle twice a day.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
I think you got the temperature situation sorted out, you cannot use a red bulb or any other color of bulb for a Dragon except a bright white one, and no lights at all during the night. And a 150 watt bright white basking bulb alone should be enough to get all 3 temp zones inside the tank within the correct ranges, you shouldn't need a CHE at all during the day if you already have a 150 watt basking bulb. The red bulb should be thrown out, literally, toss it.

My major concern is how you have your Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube mounted, as it doesn't appear to be mounted INSIDE the tank, meaning underneath the mesh lid to the tank. This is either a HUGE issue, or not an issue at all, lol, and it depends on what strength of Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube you have.

Is your UVB tube a T8 or a T5 strength UVB tube?

If you have the much weaker T8 strength of Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube (15 watts) and not the much stronger T5 strength (24 watts), then you absolutely must have the weaker T8 tube mounted underneath the mesh lid to the tank. While you have the best quality T8 UVB tube available for a Bearded Dragon brand-wise (along with the Arcadia 10% T8 tube as well), any and all T8 strength UVB tubes used for a Dragon must be mounted underneath the mesh lid to the tank, as the mesh is blocking about 40% of the UVB light emitted by the tube, and the T8 tubes are simply not strong enough to still emit adequate UVB OR UVA light on the other side of the mesh. It's very common to see a new bearded dragon owner on the forum have a dragon that is lethargic, not eating well or at all, and usually this happens pretty suddenly, and they don't understand why because they are using a Reptisun 10.0 UVB light, and it's the tube, which is supposed to be great for dragons. It is, but not if it's blocked by anything, and usually no one thinks about the mesh blocking that much UVB light. You have to remember that no strength of UVB light can penetrate any type of glass or clear plastic at all, so yes, the mesh blocks a good portion of it as well, enough to cause a serious calcium deficiency and eventually MBD.

The rules regarding a T8 UVB tube, any brand, are as follows:

#1.) All T8 strength UVB tubes must be mounted underneath the mesh tank lid, over the Hot Side of the tank, and leaving room so that the bright-white colored Basking Bulb can sit right alongside the UVB tube over the Hot Side of the tank, with both lights "sharing" the top of the Hot Side of the tank; The basking spot/platform must then be positioned within the Hot Side of the tank and directly under both lights together, so that the dragon will get both lights while basking on their basking spot/platform. This is replicating natural sunlight as closely as possible, and allowing the dragon to get bright-white colored basking light, heat, UVB, and UVA light all at the same time. (IF YOU HAVE THE T5 STRENGTH UVB TUBE, IT IS FINE SITTING ON TOP OF THE MESH LID JUST AS LONG AS IT IS SET-UP OVER THE HOT SIDE OF THE TANK IN THE SAME WAY AS DESCRIBED, RIGHT ALONGSIDE THE BRIGHT-WHITE COLORED BASKING BULB.

#2.) All T8 strength UVB tubes must be at least within 6" of the dragon's basking spot/platform in order for adequate UVB and UVA light to reach your dragon. (THE T5 STRENGTH UVB TUBES ONLY HAVE TO BE WITHIN AT LEAST 10-11" OF YOUR DRAGON'S BASKING SPOT/PLATFORM).

#3.) All T8 strength UVB tubes must be replaced once every 6 months like clockwork, as they have a very fast UVB decay-rate, and at 6 months old they are no longer emitting much, if any UVB light at all, and very little UVA light, even though they will still turn on and be emitting light. (T5 STRENGTH UVB TUBES MUST BE REPLACED EVERY 10-12 MONTHS LIKE CLOCKWORK, AS THEY HAVE A SLOWER UVB DECAY-RATE AND WILL NOT STOP EMITTING ADEQUATE UVB/UVA LIGHT UNTIL 10-12 MONTHS OLD).

So in addition to the temperature issue, I just wanted to make sure that if your Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube is in fact the weaker T8 strength of UVB tube that you get it mounted to the underside of the mesh lid ASAP, and that you get both the UVB tube and the bright-white colored Basking Bulb set up correctly with both sharing the top of the Hot Side of the tank. The easiest way to mount the UVB tube to the underside of the mesh lid is to simply poke 4 holes in the mesh using a Utility Knife or a pair of shears (be sure that it will be over the Hot Side of the tank and also that you leave enough room for the basking bulb to be able to sit right alongside it), and then use either long, plastic Zip Ties, Wire, Twine, Shoelaces, etc. to strap the entire UVB tube fixture to the underside of the mesh. Then ensure that his basking spot/platform is positioned within the Hot Side of the tank, and directly underneath both lights, and within at least 6" of the now unobstructed UVB tube.

*****If you have the much stronger T5HO Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube, then it's fine on top of the mesh, just as long as it's within at least 10-11" of his basking spot/platform, and it's again set up over the Hot Side of the tank, right alongside the bright white colored Basking Bulb.

I didn't see any UVB tube inside the tank, and you didn't mention which Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube you had, and since this is a very serious issue that has caused many dragons to develop MBD and other nutritional deficiencies and diseases, I wanted to make sure that this wasn't also a main cause of his issues.
 

Dravyn17

Member
Original Poster
Wow!
That was a wealth of very helpful information thank you very much. Rest assured as soon as I am able I will set up the take accordingly and get rid of the red bulb, tossing it. i will find out what reptisun I have (I know it's in a red box and has 18" on the top in a yellow box but I can't remember what it said) also her 150 watt basking light is from zoo med? I believe it said it delivers UVB, that is on her hot side in a dual dome with the red bulb (now and forever off) along side a 100 watt CHE with a dimmer and a reflective coating inside. Her digital thermometer reads 85.5 (as it is 9:20 PM and I'm going to sleep so, she is as well. She had been doing much better since I turned the heat down, but her heat wasn't even that hIgh. I do believe her max was like 96.7 degrees on her hot side.

I will definitely get back to you with photos of what lights I have and where, thank you so much for your very insightful help!!
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Dravyn17":25t8wbdx said:
Thank you! She loves it too, when she is happy. I didn't see it before, but it hardly ever gets higher then 93 She seems to be moving around a LOT more then when the other lights were on. The temp now is 85.5 And got as low as 80 (then she got darker and stopped moving so much) so I dialed up her CHE and am keeping the red light off. And as far as getting the humidity up what should it be?
96805-2533153841.jpg
her digital now reads 88.2 degrees

93F is very close to the PBT ( preferred body temperature = 95F ) for bearded dragons so it's little wonder she's so happy and active.

She can do with the basking spot ONLY at 40-42 degC , BUT THIS IS THE BASKING SPOT ONLY, I'd move the basking spot 2 - 3 inches closer to the basking globe and check the temperature (by trial and error to get it into to 40-42 degC range). FYI : viewtopic.php?f=5&t=233516

I strongly suggest moving the 10%UVB tube so it's reflector hood is UNDER the mesh lid, this will bump up the UV a bit and not having having to shine through the mesh will nearly double the UV she sees ... this will be huge boost to her. FYI 2 : viewtopic.php?f=34&t=235611 shows the UVB flux curves for a range of UVB globes and tubes including the similar 12%UVB T5HO w/ reflector hood which is a good approximation for your 10%UVB T5HO .
If you measure the distance the basking spot is from the tube , you will see how the UVB flux ( microW UVB / sq.cm) your dragon is getting at the basking spot and on the floor. The optimum is 180-200 microW UVB / sq.cm @ the basking spot and around 100 microW UVB / sq.cm elsewhere.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
It sounds like you unfortunately have the much weaker, 18" Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube based on the box and the size (the T5HO strength comes in only 16" or 22"). So please, get that entire tube fixture strapped to the underside of the mesh lid immediately, as she's not getting much UVB or UVA light at all. No, that basking bulb emits no UVB or UVA, it's just a "UV" bulb, which translates to a basking bulb that emits heat and light, that's it.

So this means that you must get that T8 tube strapped underneath the mesh lid, it must be within at least 6" of his basking spot/platform, and it must be replaced every 6 months like clockwork, as they decay very quickly. I suggest writing the date you first put it in the fixture on the tube itself with a black Sharpie so you'll know when you need to replace it.

I also suggest for both his welfare and your wallet that when it's time to replace the T8 tube at the 6 month mark that you spend the around $50 or so on Amazon.com it costs to upgrade to the 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube($24-$25 on Amazon.com) and a 24" T5-rated tube fixture with a reflector included (Amazon.com has one that costs around $28). They can sit on top of the mesh as long as they are within at least 10-11" of his basking spot/platform, and they only need replaced once every 10-12 months, so you'll save a small fortune over time, as the shorter, weaker, and less efficient 18" T8 tube has a retail at Petco and Petsmart of $37.99 and usually costs more than the much better T5HO tube online (for some reason, I don't for the life of me know why, it's literally half the UVB tube that the T5HO is).

This has no doubt been a large part of his problem, maybe all of it. We've seen dozens and dozens of dragons develop severe calcium deficiencies and MBD due to the 18" Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tubes being placed on top of the mesh lids because their owner was unaware of how much UVB light was being blocked...
 

Dravyn17

Member
Original Poster
How do I hang the uvb bulb inside the tank? Also I can't seem to keep her tank temp above 80 at night without the red light, so I know it's bad for her but it was 77 degrees in her tank and I felt it was better than nothing? Any suggestions for that?
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
First of all, her tank temp at night only needs to be 65 degrees or above!!!! That's where she's most comfortable, if you have it at 80 degrees or above she's very uncomfortable, it's far too hot. You have to realize that the desert is very cold at night, and it's pitch black, so that's the way they like it. If it's at 80 degrees at night without any nighttime heat source then you must keep you house very warm, lol! It's fine being anywhere above 65, ideally no hotter than the low 70's. So please just keep everything off at night, hopefully it will drop a bit inside her tank below 80 by itself.

As far as mounting the UVB fixture under the mesh lid, all you have to do is poke 4 holes in the mesh using a Utility Knife or Shears (make sure that you're mounting it over the Hot Side of the tank and that you're leaving room right alongside the tube for the bright-white basking bulb, so they are both "sharing" the top of the Hot Side of the tank; then you position her basking spot/platform directly under both bulbs, so that she's getting both the bright white colored light and the UVB light at the same time while basking, this is replicating natural sunlight for her). The just use long plastic zip ties, wire, twine, string, shoelaces, etc. to strap the entire tube fixture to the underside of the mesh lid.
 

Dravyn17

Member
Original Poster
Thank you all so much for all of your help!! Along with all this I have to ask, have you found any greens hat your beardie eats over another? I've tried collard greens, escarole, she was eating kale (which she LOVED but I read is a calcium binder so I stopped giving it to her) and I'm having a hard time finding anything she will eat the way she loved he kale
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
You can give her kale, it was mistakenly thought it has high oxalates that bind calcium but it doesn't. Kale is a great staple green.
 
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