Please help!!

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Drako is around 8-9 months old. Currently his tank is a 40gal with 100watt basking bulb and a 10.0 reptisun uvb. A CHE for over night. Currently on beige eco carpet. Recently i moved into a basement and its currently winter and been very difficult to keep the large room warm. His basking spot went to 90-95 and the cool side around 70-75. One day he just refused to move from his basking spot. He has refused to eat for 5 days now. And hasnt moved from his perch unless i move him. He is responsive and alert when i approach his cage. He usually has his head down like hes trying to sleep under his basking bulb.
I panicked after 4 days of not moving sleeping a lot and not eating, i got wood to start a fire in the fire place to combat the bitter cold. Its now 100-105 in his basking spot and he sits with his mouth open under it. He still wont move from it and wont eat. My other beardie Thorn is running around and enjoying the extra warmth.
At first i thought Drako was sick, and i had originally had him in calcium sand and the uvb i had was around 6 months old from when i first got him. In my panic i changed the uvb and completely removed the sand for carpet instead. I thought it was impaction at first but he was still pooping like normal even though he wasnt eating anything. Today which is day 5 he hasnt pooped but he also hasnt eaten anything. Then i thought he was going through something with calcium considering I've been slacking and forgetting the calcium spray and dust with the new move and it was packed in a box. But he wont eat anything so theres no way for me to give him calcium other than force feed and i dont want to do that without knowing for sure if that is what it is. Then i discovered brumation and thought that was the cause of him not moving much sleeping a lot and not eating. But in brumation they normally go to the cold side of their tank or try to hide from their lights but he is right under his basking light and wont move.. Im really worried and stressed over what this could be. I have no idea how to help him and anything to help would be much appreciated until i can get him to the vet, which wont be open for another 2 days due to new years.

UPDATE its day 6 now and he ate two crickets and two superworms. Still turns away at greens and still wont move from his basking perch. I gave him a bath today and he drank immediately. Theres water in his cage as well that he could lap from but i dont think he will as he never has. He seems weak now. After he swam around in his bath and seemed to enjoy himself i picked him up when he was done and he seemed very limp in my hands. I kept him warm and got him dry, put him next to the water dish in his cage and he seemed very weak and tired as he climbed back to his perch..
Im terrified hes not going to make it another 3 days till the vet opens again. I have a 24hr emergency clinic but they dont promise treatment since they dont specialize in exotics and im not made of money... i dont know what it wrong or what i can do to help him... please help
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there, sorry that Draco is not well. It could be a combination of calcium deficiency and a bit dehydrated. Try to give him extra calcium by mixing it with with some baby food squash or green beans or a tiny bit of unsweetened fruit juice or raw honey.

What exact type + brand of lights do you have, be specific ?

Can you post pics of him ? Here's how :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Is your Reptisun 10.0 UVB light a long tube in a long flourescent tube fixture, one that's at least 18" long? Or is it a regular compact or coil/spiral version that fits into a regular dome or clamp lamp? And also, is it sitting on top of a mesh tank lid that is obstructing it?

If you have the compact or coil version of the Reptisun 10.0 UVB bulb, then this is your problem, as they are only 13 watt UVB bulbs and no where near adequate for a bearded dragon. If you have the 18" or longer tube version, but it's only the weaker T8 strength Reptisun 10.0 tube (it will say on the tube) and it's sitting on top of the mesh lid, or its older than 6 months, then this is the problem. Only the much stronger T5HO strength Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube can sit on top of a mesh lid (still must be within at least 11" of his Basking Spot to be effective), and they also last 12 months instead of 6 months. The much weaker T8 tube must be mounted inside the tank and under the mesh lid, be within at least 6" of his basking spot, and be replaced once every 6 months to be effective. Otherwise, he will start to develop severe nutritional deficiencies, such as a Calcium deficiency, weakened bone density, and MBD, regardless of how much Calcium powder you give him (though you cannot slack on that either, or his Multivitamin powder, once he's under an adequate UVB tube that is mounted correctly). Without an adequate, strong enough UVB tube that is mounted correctly, any and all nutrition, such as Calcium and other vitamins and minerals will just be excreted. Also, his UVB tube and bright-white colored Basking Bulb must be on every single day for at least 14 hours.
 

Nessiedrakosmom

Member
Original Poster
The basking bulb is 100watt from zoomed
I did discover shortly after making this post that the UVB that i have is a compact and is very bad for beardies! ? It is a 10.0 Reptisun Compact and has been sitting on the mesh. Once i discovered that it was bad i moved the mesh so that it is straight from the bulb because i couldnt go buy one. But im going today to buy the long tube bulbs and a hood. T5HO. Got it. What are some good multivitamin powder options? Im pretty sure i only have calcium powder with d3 and a calcium spray for greens.
Would you suggest me still taking him to the vet? Or should i wait after i replace the bulb and see if he improves
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Alright, well we know what the problem is then, that's good...

As long as your 100 watt Basking Bulb is bright-white in color, and is keeping his 3 temperature zones inside his tank within the correct temperature ranges, then it's fine. Brand of the Basking Bulbs doesn't really make much of difference, just as long as they are always bright-white in color, they are a regular, compact basking bulb and not any type of spiral/coil bulb, and as long as they are the correct wattage for the temps. That's it.

As far as buying the T5 strength UVB tube and fixture for it, I hope you're able to find them in a store. Usually the only UVB tubes you find in pet shops (at least the big pet shops like Petco, Petsmart, Petland, etc.) are only the weaker T8 tubes. If you have a local specialty reptile shop they will certainly have the Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tubes, they might even have the Arcadia brand 12% T5 UVB tubes, along with the T5-rated tube fixtures/hoods. But you're going to pay at least double, probably more than double, of what you'd pay on Amazon.com, which is why I suggested that to you. I have been ordering both my 22" and 34" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tubes and my SunBlaster brand T5 tube fixtures on Amazon.com for years, and the most I've ever paid for either a 22" or a 34" T5HO tube has been $25, while the shorter, much weaker 18" Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube has a retail in stores of $37.99! Makes no sense, but that's the way it is. So you may want to really consider ordering both the tube and the fixture/hood online. Make sure that whatever 24" fixture/hood you buy is not only rated for a T5 strength tube light (rated for at least 24 watts), but that it also has an included Metal Reflector with it, this is very, very important, as it's the only way for adequate UVB light to be reflected throughout the tank for him. Without a Metal Reflector behind the UVB tube, the only area in the tank that he will get adequate UVB light will be on his basking spot/platform that should be located directly under both the UVB tube and the bright-white colored basking bulb.

If you don't mind spending around $40 on a T5-rated, 24" tube fixture, I highly, highly recommend the 24" Sunblaster T5 tube fixture on Amazon.com...they have a cheaper one that costs around $28 that is just a simple T5 tube fixture with a regular metal reflector, but they also sell one that costs around $40-$45 that is just awesome, I have 2 of them and am so glad I bought them. The difference is that this more expensive SunBlaster T5 fixture is still 24" long, but it's meant for growing plants, and as such it has a built-in Reflector that actually folds in and out from the fixture itself (it's a part of the fixture, not just a thin, flimsy piece of metal-coated fabric or paper like they usually are). Also, the other reason I love these SunBlaster T5 Plant Growing fixtures is because they can either by set right on top of the mesh lid (the 22" or longer Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tubes are strong enough to sit on top of the mesh lids), or they come with mounting hardware to mount them either on a flat surface (this is why I love them, when I upgraded to a larger wooden enclosure I had the specialty hardware to mount this fixture to the ceiling of the new wooden enclosure) and also the mounting hardware to hang them from the ceiling or from any other type of stand, rack (like a breeder's rack), shelving system, etc. So I keep the both sets of hardware so that I have them in case I want to upgrade to a larger, wooden enclosure, or in case I get another Dragon and I want to stack their tanks/enclosures on a shelving system, I can then just hang this SunBlaster T5 fixture from the underside of the shelf/rack above each tank. Really it's the high-quality, built-in, fold-out Reflector system that I love. Just an FYI. If your interested I can post the link to both the Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tubes and the fixtures on Amazon.com

Also, another FYI, be absolutely certain to NOT BUY THE REPTISUN 5.0 T5HO UVB TUBE!!! Unfortunately Reptisun sells a "Package Set" that includes a very nice, high-quality tube Hood that is rated for a T5 strength UVB tube, HOWEVER, THESE SETS ONLY COME WITH A 5.0 UVB TUBE IN THE PACKAGE WITH THE HOOD, NOT A 10.0!!! The 5.0 UVB tubes only emit 5% UVB light and only 30% UVA light, as opposed to the 10.0 UVB tubes, which emit 10% UVB light and 60% UVA light. The 5.0 UVB tubes are meant for TROPICAL REPTILES THAT NEED LESS INTENSE, WEAKER UVB/UVA LIGHT.

If you buy a set that include a T5 hood and only a 5.0 or 5% UVB tube, you'll have to mount the 5.0 T5HO UVB tube within at least 4" of your dragon's basking spot/platform, and it must be replaced once every 6 months as opposed to once a year, even though it's a T5 strength UVB tube, because the UVB decay rate of a 5% UVB tube is twice as fast as that of a 10% UVB tube. Just an FYI, because I've seen many, many members on here buy that Reptisun T5HO set with the hood and the 5.0 T5HO tube for around $100 or so in pet shops, thinking it was a good deal, but they then ended up having to go and order the same length of Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube anyway...

As far as a Calcium powder, you should really have one with Vitamin D3 and then also one without Vitamin D3, and then also a Reptile-Grade Multivitamin powder. However, for the the next month I would only use the Calcium powder with the Vitamin D3 while he's under the new T5 strength UVB tube, then you can go to 3 days with Vitamin D3 and 4 days without Vitamin D3. He's going to need Calcium powder every day, and usually just dusting ALL of the live insects he eats during only 1 of his daily feeding sessions (if you do more than one live insect feeding session per day, only dust all of the insects in 1 of those daily feeding sessions) will be more than enough.

I would not use any type of Calcium "Sprays", just the powders. If by chance you take him to an experienced Reptile Vet and they prescribe him a high-quality, LIQUID Calcium, like Calcivet, then that's different, but those Calcium sprays that you can buy in pet shops, like the Zilla brand Calcium spray and others, are not very good quality at all, and actually will not deliver him nearly as much calcium as a Reptile-Grade Calcium powder will.

As far as a brand of Calcium Powder, most of us use RepCal brand, they make both a Calcium powder with and without Vitamin D3. (just another FYI, always ONLY use a Reptile-Grade Calcium powder that is Phosphorus-Free).

He'll also need a Reptile-Grade Multivitamin 3 days a week, again by dusting all of the insects in one of his daily feeding sessions in the Multivitamin. The one that most people use is Herpavite.

I do this by another method/brand, and I do this for 2 reasons: #1 I save money by only having to buy a jar of RepCal brand Calcium without Vitamin D3 and then a bottle of the multivitamin I use, Repashy Calcium Plus, so I don't have to also buy a jar of Calcium powder with Vitamin D3; and #2 Because the Repashy Calcium Plus uses nothing buy naturally-sourced vitamins and minerals, and uses absolutely no synthetic vitamins or minerals that are manufactured.

So what I do is I buy a jar of RepCal brand Calcium powder WITHOUT vitamin D3, and a bottle of Repashy brand Calcium Plus multivitamin powder. This is a Reptile-Grade multivitamin that also includes Reptile-Grade Calcium with Vitamin D3. Like I said, all vitamins come from natural sources, such as the Vitamin A comes from the Beta Carotene that is an ingredient in the Repashy Calcium Plus. This totally eliminates any risk of vitaminosis/toxicity from synthetic vitamins, which happens quite often to Dragons.

So for my 7 month old juvenile dragon, I give him Calcium powder every day, 7 days a week (I scale them back to calcium powder 5 times a week when they hit a year old), and a Multivitamin 3 days a week (which continues for the rest of their lives). So what I do is 4 days of the week I simply dust all of the live insects he eats during one of his daily live insect feeding sessions in only the RepCal brand Calcium powder WITHOUT Vitamin D3 (he gets 3 live insect feeding sessions every day, I'm about to scale him back to 2 live insect daily feeding sessions a day when he gets to 10 months old). And then the other 3 days of the week I dust all of the live insects he eats during one of his daily live insect feeding sessions in the Repashy Calcium Plus with vitamin D3. So he's getting Calcium every day, a multivitamin 3 days a week, and Vitamin D3 3 days a week.
 

Nessiedrakosmom

Member
Original Poster
I didnt see your comment and i just really want my beardie to be better so i went out and bought that stupid package set thinking the same thing ohh yay package deal. Luckily i can get my money back no problem. And the package set was 59.99. A link for that would be wonderful and much appreciated.
Honestly they make everything extremely confusing and very difficult to know exactly what to get for your beardies.. ive never been so stressed and frustrated at the same time.
The basking bulb i have is not bright white in color. Its more of a yellow But honestly i cant go buy more bulbs. I dont have the money for them so ill just have to wait until these burn out and then ill get the different ones. Which sucks, but i can only fo so much.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Oh man, that damn package set...well, don't worry about the "yellow" basking bulb, that's fine. The big problem is the basking bulbs that are actually colors, like red, blue, etc. The "yellow" is just fine, don't worry about that at all.

The 5.0 UVB tube is a problem though. So either you take the entire set you bought back and then order both the 10.0 T5HO tube and a different fixture, or you keep the set that you bought (the hood that comes in that set is a very nice ZooMed brand hood) and you spend just another $23 and order the same length of Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube on Amazon...that choice is yours...

Honestly, if you can afford to just spend another $23, I'd keep the ZooMed Hood you already got for $59.99, because that's actually a really good deal, the best price I've seen, usually just that hood costs around $60. I guess what I'm saying is that the amount of money you'll save by returning that entire set and then ordering both the tube and another fixture isn't going to be much, and the hood you have is a very good hood. That way you can temporarily set up the 5.0 UVB tube over him in that hood, try to get it as close to him as you can by raising up his basking spot/platform so that he gets some UVB light, and then when the 10.0 tube comes you can just swap them out. The 5.0 tube is still a T5 strength of UVB light, the problem is that it is such a small percentage of UVB light that it has to be very close to him, within about 4" of him, whereas the 10.0 only has to be within 11" of him...and the 10.0 lasts for a year, the 5.0 needs to be replaced every 6 months...

Let me know what length you got and I'll post the Amazon.com links for you...
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Just wanted to chime in....The t5 5.0 is the same strength as the old t8 10.0. It can be ,mounted 8-10" away + produce decent uvb.
 

Nessiedrakosmom

Member
Original Poster
I just returned the whole thing not a problem because i really dont have a way of raising his perch or a way of mounting that hood 4" away. That hood i also had to position cockeyed on top of his cage and it really wasnt reaching him while he was on his perch due to the dome that hes under. Eventually im going to DIY a better setup for them both and make the tanks stackable so the hanging option would be nice. Also the bulbs at this petstore are around $30 each. That and the amount of bulbs that i would then have that i need to find out how to get rid of since they're mercury makes my teeth grind.
Ive actually got to buy two of everything since i do have a second beardie that i took in from bfs friend. The set up they had him in was just horrendous and ive slowly been getting that up to snuff. (Blue sand, tiny lights made for a 15gal when hes in a 40gal, no way for him to get close to those terrible lights.)
I have a 40 gal for both of theyre tanks. So the links for the bulbs and that sunblaster would be spectacular. And maybe i can actually feel like i accomplished something in this fiasco.
 

Nessiedrakosmom

Member
Original Poster
These first two are of drakos setup. As you can see it is a top open and doesnt have the double door on the front which make setting up lighting very difficult.
94457-2013414940.jpg
94457-5571975433.jpg

The second two are of thorns current set up (the second beardie that i rescued) which his tank does have the double doors which will make a hood setup much easier. His current set up is not ideal as I said but its a work in progress. (You can also see hes still dyed blue from the previous owners blue sand.
94457-9572250968.jpg
94457-8454513540.jpg

A way to set up the hood so that it can reach theyre basking spots along with the bulb will be difficult. I did open and plug in the hood i just bought and then returned and had to put it diagonal across the top for both of them which made me feel like it wasnt reaching them very well and it seemed like it wasnt putting off very much light. Which was probably the bulb being a 5.0. I do have amazon prime and am fine with spending the money for the hood considering its necessary. I want a decent one if im gonna spend it and while the zoomed one was good, it just didnt feel ideal as what looked the brightest was the opposite side of theyre tanks where they rarely are at.
Also i could return that package deal, and get the same hood by itself.... which is also 60$ so the package or the hood by itself doesnt make a difference.
 
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