concerns for a new rescue baby

Hi there, this little guy is about 6 months old, rescued from an Ace Hardware where he was being fed a few worms every three days, incorrect basking temp, minimal uvb, and very dry enclosure.

I brought him home and he weighs 23 grams. His enclosure has paper towel substrate, and I have a powersun mercury vapor bulb. His basking temp has a constant range of 95 to 110, his cool side is 75 at night (house temp). He's in a 40 gallon breeder tank.

My main concerns are retained shed, malnutrition, and parasites.

Pictures show the retained shed on his back and left rear foot.

I've offered him a constant platter of small dubia, small soldier fly larvae, small freshly shed superworms, red runners, as well as little pieces of squash. I entice him as much as I can, but he doesn't touch the squash and only eats a couple bugs a day. Mostly he basks with his eyes closed. I don't think his eyes are hurting, I think he is weak and resting

One thing I noted initially was there appeared to be a tiny amount of blood in his feces. His weight and lack of appetite would indicate possible parasites, and I do have panacur on hand. But the amount based on his weight would be .02cc, and I have no idea how to measure that amount. So not wanting to over dose, I just put the tiniest amount on the end of my finger and onto his nose, which he did take. Looking for advice on proper dosage for that.

For the first couple days I had a hard time getting him to drink anything. I made a liquid concoction with calcium glubionate, a multivitamin, and acidiophiliz+ and was able to get it to drink a couple drops the first night, and then about 5cc again two nights ago.
I've been soaking it in the tub nightly, and two nights ago, it suddenly figured out how to drink, and drank water for probably a full minute. The next day it had a watery and extremely foul smelling poop

I'm going to try some reptaboost today and some baby food. Looking for some advice on how much panacur to give, as well as what to do about the foot. Also if anyone has suggestions for getting him to eat more. Thank you

Hello,

Poor thing, he is very emaciated indeed!
How bad are the worms, was a fecal done? I can help with dosing, but I would be very
careful with deworming him since he is so dehydrated right now.
Maybe give him a week or so, to get adjusted to a new home first, so you can try to get
him hydrated before medicating him.
You can make slurries out of blended greens & squash along with the calcium & vitamin
blend, daily. Go easy on the protein in case his kidneys are having a hard time. You can
slowly add chicken or turkey baby food in with that, once his system starts to function
better & his hydration status is better.
Be sure to keep him around 80 overnight, to help boost his immune system right now. He
is going to need good basking temperatures which it sounds like you have already. Are you
using a digital probe or temp gun to measure the temps?
That's wonderful you gave him a home. Let us know he is doing.

Tracie

I have the equipment and a microscope to do my own fecals, but I haven't due to the holidays. Just from personal experience as a rescuer I am 99% certain that this one has worms, but not severe. I would say mid to mild. I will wait on the panacur.

Good call on the protein, I did syringe feed a small amount of reptiboost and chicken baby food mixed with acidophiliz yesterday. I will cut back on that and try to push veggies more for a few days.

I will also get the ceramic bulb set up for her at night.

I am really worried about the dehydration though. Yesterday and today at bath she again drank for a minute. Today, she did twice. I know she needs liquid, but once she fills her tummy with water, she is full and won't take anything I dab onto her nose.

I haven't been able to get her to eat anything in the week I've had her, aside from a couple dubia and a couple phoenix worms on the second and third days I had her. For the past 4 days, she won't touch anything. I've offered supers, butters, wax, dubia, red runners, phoenix, small crickets, collard, kale, butternut... she just isn't having it.

Hello,

How is your little one doing today?
I forgot to mention about the shedding, that you can mist her out of the tank, or give a
bath so that can help the shedding. It's a great sign that she drinks during her bath. It
sounds like she is pretty dehydrated so letting her drink right now is important. For now,
just give small amounts of protein & mainly fluids & vegetation to keep her system from
having to work so hard. Once she has several good urate outputs, you can have an idea of
how well her kidneys are doing.
I hope you are able to get some food into her, she needs it!
In a couple of weeks when she is a little stronger, you could consider giving a couple of
rounds of panacur, to be sure there aren't heavy loads of worms. Let her get hydrated first
to make it safer.
How are her colors today?
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

I've been giving her daily baths, thats when she drinks so much. Her color might be a little brighter today, and I think she is a little more alert. I wasn't able to get her to eat anything yesterday or so far today, but I'm going to try again with some squash baby food in a little bit.

I'm pretty concerned with poops though. This is the one from this morning


And this one is from this evening

I'm really not sure what to do now, so advice is very much appreciated. She is basking and I forgot to mention before that I do use a digital temp gun to read the temps. When I put it on her back a few minutes ago, it said 102. So that is good at least.

Hello,

Poor girl, she may have parasites then, because that does look like some blood. Have there
been a decent amount of urates then thus far?
It would probably be a good idea to try & get a fecal if you can. Definitely get some food into
her so you can do a fecal sample on her. It's a good possibility her levels are moderate to high.
Do you already have panacur on hand?
The basking temperatures are fine, no problems there. I am glad to hear her colors are good &
she was more alert today, too.
Keep us posted on her.

Tracie

I have never seen any living creature so thirsty in my life

Every day I take a small shallow dish and drip some vitamin/calcium/electrolyte/acidophiliz water in and this little thing just drinks and drinks and drinks. She also drinks every time I give her a soak in the tub too. Unreal.

She did have another poop yesterday and I saw maybe just a drop of blood, but there was more solid waste this time, although it was still horribly foul smelling.

I do have panacur on hand. I had given her just a tiny drop on her nose the first day I had her, which would have been one week ago, and i gave her another tiny drop on her nose 2 days later.

She was 23g, now she is 28g. I've been letting her have a couple of small freshly molten superworms, small wax worms, phoenix or dubia each night if she wants them. I'm not having much luck getting her to eat squash or greens on her own tho, and she'll only take a little dabbed on her nose.

I "think" she is making slow progress. Her poor tummy and kidneys are probably not functioning too well yet.

It's good that she's drinking so much. My rescue drank a ton of water at first too. Make sure she has plenty available but better in small amounts several times. They tend to overdo it sometimes if they get really thirsty. Over time the extra hydration should help kidneys quite a bit as well as overall healthy. Just keep at it =)

Hello,

Poor thing, but, at least she is drinking on her own! That is a great sign.
How is she doing this evening?
Ok, that should be fine, giving a small amount of panacur, to help out. It sounds like she
most likely has some type of worm or parasite issue so you will definitely want to get it
under control. I hope she is feeling better soon, keep up the great work with her!

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie

I would hold-off on giving her ANY medications right now, I think that yes, it's quite possible she may have parasites present like Coccidia or Pinworms, albeit unless they are in high counts/loads I wouldn't treat them at all, but right now she needs lots of fluids by mouth (I'd go to unflavored Pedialyte) to get her hydrated and her renal system functioning, go very, very easy on the protein, no Superworms or Mealworms at all, she can't handle the shells right now, BSFL are excellent because they are high in Calcium and full of fluids, but easy on them.

The main cause for her low weight, stunted growth, and dehydration is not parasites at all, it's a combination of inadequate UVB/UVA light and a totally scant and improper diet. She needs some time under a strong UVB light (how old is your Powersun, and how far away is it from her basking spot/platform?) and very exact temperature zones. Try to get her Basking Spot Surface Temperature right around a steady 105 degrees, and her Cool Side Ambient under 80 so she has a place to always cool down. I'm not a fan of MVB lights, especially in this type of situation, only because they make it much more difficult to control the temperature ranges while keeping the UVB light within an adequate range from them, I much prefer a strong, at least 24 watt T5 UVB tube and a separate, bright-white Halogen Indoor Flood Bulb, but the Powersun will be fine as long as you can get it to adequately control her temperature zones.

Lots of fluids (preferably with electrolytes), no live insects with hard shells or exoskeletons but rather the soft, fluid-filled BSFL, and slowly ease her up in weight.******** Her appetite should pick up within a few days of being under adequate UVB/UVA light, and this is exactly why you do not want to immediately put her on ANY medications at all, because it's only going to further upset her system and kill any emerging appetite. Hopefully once she starts getting any appetite back under proper lighting and temperature ranges and she starts getting well-hydrated, her system will start to regulate and fight off any parasites she may have. I don't think you need to worry about the parasites at all for at least a couple of weeks, just concentrate on the fluids, proper nutrition, lighting, and temperatures. Remember, she's not ever had a proper environment, obviously, and this is the cause of her current physical state, not any parasites. And medications are just going to put her on a downward spiral that could very well end fatally.

Hello,

How is your little one doing tonight?
Did she get some fluids into her today? Definitely continue giving the pedialyte, acidophiliz,
& extra oral fluids to help her out. Hopefully she will start gaining weight here soon.
Have you been able to keep her warm overnight to boost her immune system?
I disagree, if there is blood in the stool, it could be parasites. You can't completely
overlook that because heavy amounts of parasites will kill them as well, stealing all
of the nutrition & causing terrible GI tract damage. A fecal should be done, but
not necessarily heavy meds. A drop or two or panacur wont hurt, especially if probiotics
& fluids are being given with slurries. Once the urates are more pronounced & you can
tell the kidneys are working better then you can add some protein for her.
Will she not take any blended greens slurries or does she drink too much water?

Let us know how she is doing. It may take her several weeks before a big improvement is
seen but be consistent with her care. Rescues take time, especially when they have had a
poor environment for awhile.

Tracie

I also think in this case a few days worth of Panacur would possibly be warranted because of the blood in the stool. Panacur is not one of the harsher meds. and beardies can tolerate it very well.

Sorry for not updating in a few days.

In response to EllenD, I did get some unflavored Pedialyte several days ago, but it must have some sort of taste to it because I couldn't get her to drink any. So I've been adding it to her bath water where she drinks quite a lot.
I don't feed supers or mealworms unless they are very freshly molten, but I have given her a couple of them.
The Powersun is 8-12 inches away from her basking tree depending on where she is sitting. I agree they are a pain to get just right, but that's why I use the fake tree for her, so she can find her perfect spot. I honestly don't know how old it is though. I don't replace them yearly as I do the florescent tubes, but I do know it is no older than a year.

To answer your questions, Tracie, I have been keeping the ceramic bulb on her at night so she stays around 78-80 degrees at night. She has been very stubborn about taking any type of greens I've offered.

An update: Her weight dropped back down to around 23g a couple days ago when she was being stubborn about eating, and she had 2-3 more really watery and extremely foul smelling poops, each with a little trace of blood in them.

But since then, I have been able to get her to start taking some squash baby food, and 2 days ago she ate five very small dubia, and last night she ate about 10 small dubia. This morning she weighed 25g again.

As I had mentioned earlier, I gave her a very small dab of panacur on her nose Dec 24th, another small dab on Dec 26th, and again Jan 3rd. The picture shows roughly the amount given each time, and it really wasn't much at all, not even a full drop.

I do think she is perking up a little. I took this picture of her 2 days ago:

And this picture is of her tonight during her soak in the sink.

However, she did have another very liquidy poop this morning and still blood in it, and still a very foul odor. Pic:

So I'm wondering if I should give her another dab of panacur in a couple days, or hold off and see if it improves on its own. I do think she is at a very critical stage, and she definitely can't afford to lose any more weight or be competing for the nutrients in what little amount of food she does eat.

She looks better than she did in the earlier photos which is encouraging. The poop still looks off though and if it stinks a lot I would try more Panacur. As mentioned it isn't overly harsh so a longer treatment should be OK as far as I know. I would also keep offering plain water and baby food and try to get as much hydration into her as she will take.

So as an update, this little guy is still alive but still not doing very well. It did have its first solid urate 2 days ago. There hasn't been any blood in it for a couple weeks now.

However, I'm still having a really hard time getting it to eat anything, take any liquid or slurrie or baby food from a dropper, or really show any interest in food. On a rare occasion it will eat a couple dubia or red runners. I'm going to order some small hornworms and see if it might possibly eat those.

Its weight is still the same, and still has not shed, despite daily 15 minute soaks. It just sits wherever with its eyes closed 90% of the time.

Am I fighting a losing battle here? I am still mixing up unflavored pedialyte, acidophiliz, and liquid calcium to offer via a dropper every day. Sometimes I add a little multivitamin, b complex, or d3 in the blend.

Are there any other suggestions of things to try? Its almost as if it would prefer to die, but I don't want to let it just give up, especially when its kidneys are starting to work again.