Please help I think my beardies are sick!

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erlabella

Member
So a while ago my beardies stopped eating (I have three) and I have been asking everywhere for help. I’ve come to the conclusion that they may have impaction, so I bought them some baby food prune puree. This is only the second day i’ve given them prune puree.

I have been keeping them on sand their entire life :( and I didn’t know that it was bad.

I got two of the beardies 6 years ago and they have never had any troubles yet. We decided to breed and got 13 beautiful baby beardies. We sold all of them except two, but then one of them died :( and now I have only one left. He’s currently 3 years old.

A few months ago I changed their substrate to newspaper and i’m already seeing improvement. I’ve been bathing them alot and they poop fine, but sometimes they don’t. Ressi (my 3 yo) sometimes poops a yellowish urate, which i think is because he’s dehydrated. Messi (my female 6 yo) once pooped some reddish-brownish poop which is concerning, and once she pooped a dark lumpy hard one. I don’t know what that means really. Rey(my male 6 yo) poops fine solid poops, but they’re light brown and I hope that it’s nothing to worry about.

They’re all skinny, especially Rey and he’s also weak. When I bathe him he tends to play dead and won’t move (sometimes he has he’s eyes opened too) and I think he may be sick :(


Messi: she’s a very calm and gentle beardie and was my first pet ever. She has been on sand her entire life. She laid her first eggs when she was two (I think) but all the eggs rottened :( I don’t really remember how many times she has laid eggs. Anyways as I was saying, she won’t eat vegetables (something she’ll eat mealworms) and she got very skinny. When I changed the substrate to newspaper, she got a lot better and now she eats some veggies (only handfed) however she has a very big bloated belly, even though she doesn’t eat much. She’s a lot more active than she used to be, and now she also poops more often.


Rey: he’s my male beardie. He’s very active outside the cage and he’s also sassier. Sometimes he’ll let me pick him up. He also stopped eating veggies and bugs around the same time the others did. Since I changed the newspaper he’s not been so well. He’s weak and won’t eat anything. He’s very very skinny. He seems to feel better inside the cage than outside. I still can’t get him to eat.

Ressi: he’s like a mixed version of the parents. He does okay and sometimes not. He’s also skinny but a bit fatter than Rey. Sometimes he’s suddenly scared of me and runs off to hide. I don’t know why. He only eats when I open his mouth and put some food in there. His poop is not the healthiest (light brown poop and yellowish urate) but it’s gotten better. He is a bit active, also when I take him out.

I really wan’t to take them to the vet, but I live in a very small country with no reptile/exotic veterinarians. They only know a bit about reptiles.

Sorry I’m writing so much, but I would really like to help them. I love them so much. I would really really appreciate it if you could help me. Thx

erlabella
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi Erla, sorry that your beardies are not doing well. What have they been eating, anything besides mealworms ? Did they drink water in any way before all this happened ? And do you keep them together or all separate. If you can, post pics of each individual dragon [ full body shot from above ] and also pictures of the enclosure as well as the lights. Here's how :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
I'm sorry that you're having such issues, but if all 3 of your bearded dragons are sick, not eating, and very skinny, they either all have the same illness, such as parasites or some other type of bacterial or fungal infection, or they all have inadequate UVB lighting and temperature zones, or they are all housed together, which explains the entire problem, or a combination of the 3.

Can you please post some photos of each dragon and their individual tanks and lighting? If you have them housed together at all you need to separate them, as this always happens when they are housed together, they are solitary animals that have dominance issues when housed together, and can also get very aggressive. If they are not housed together but you have been using the same type of UVB lighting for all 3, the same basking lights, the same type of thermometers to take their tank temperatures (stick-on rather than a digital probe or a gun), etc. then the husbandry issues are likely the problem with all 3. This tends to happen when people have more than one dragon in separate enclosures, but they are using the same inadequate UVB light for all of them or they have the same general husbandry issues with all of them.
 

erlabella

Member
Original Poster
AHBD":3h1d3pd6 said:
Hi Erla, sorry that your beardies are not doing well. What have they been eating, anything besides mealworms ? Did they drink water in any way before all this happened ? And do you keep them together or all separate. If you can, post pics of each individual dragon [ full body shot from above ] and also pictures of the enclosure as well as the lights. Here's how :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them

They’ve eaten cabbage, chinese cabbage, garden rocket, cucumber, apples, bell peppers, carrots, sweet potatoes, pears and other stuff. No they don’t know how to drink but I usually give them cucumber everyday. Ressi is alone in a cage, but Messi and Rey are together right now. I don’t have the money nor space to buy another cage right now so I just try my best to seperate them like putting a wall between them in the cage or something.

This is Rey:

95806-2046136810.jpg

This is Messi:

95806-9504404813.jpg

This is Ressi:

95806-9665100891.jpg
 

erlabella

Member
Original Poster
EllenD":26lmvqmx said:
I'm sorry that you're having such issues, but if all 3 of your bearded dragons are sick, not eating, and very skinny, they either all have the same illness, such as parasites or some other type of bacterial or fungal infection, or they all have inadequate UVB lighting and temperature zones, or they are all housed together, which explains the entire problem, or a combination of the 3.

Can you please post some photos of each dragon and their individual tanks and lighting? If you have them housed together at all you need to separate them, as this always happens when they are housed together, they are solitary animals that have dominance issues when housed together, and can also get very aggressive. If they are not housed together but you have been using the same type of UVB lighting for all 3, the same basking lights, the same type of thermometers to take their tank temperatures (stick-on rather than a digital probe or a gun), etc. then the husbandry issues are likely the problem with all 3. This tends to happen when people have more than one dragon in separate enclosures, but they are using the same inadequate UVB light for all of them or they have the same general husbandry issues with all of them.

I do not use the same UVB light bulbs nor the basking light. The temperatures aren’t the same in both cages. I’ll have to wait till tomorrow to take a picture of their enclosures and also to measure the temperatures.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Yes, you must separate them, so please put a divider in their tank. That's step one.

What UVB lights and basking lights are you using for each tank? This is most likely your problem, improper, inadequate, obstructed, or too old UVB lights, or a combination of all of these. We can help you with this, but we need photos of each of their tanks and info on what each of your UVb lights are (brand, model/wattage, and type, meaning Compact, Coil, or long Tube), how old they are since last replaced, how far away from their basking spots in inches are the UVB lights, and are they obstructed by anything, like a mesh lid they are sitting on or a plastic cover on the fixture that covers the UVb light itself.

I bet 90% of the time (at least) when a dragon won't eat and is very thin like this, it's due to them not having a proper UVb light for bearded dragons, and then sometimes improper temperature zones taken by stick-on thermometers (cannot measure a basking spot temp with a stick-on thermometer at all) in addition to the improper UVb lights. Bearded Dragons are desert reptiles, and as such their entire survival (most all bodily functions) depends on them getting 13-14 hours of adequate UVb light ever single day of their lives. Without it their bodies cannot manufacture any Vitamin D3, which in-turn keeps them from absorbing and processing/using any nutrition/food or supplements that they eat or are given, including Calcium. Then it's a downward spiral and they just stop eating all together, they lose weight, and develop deficiency diseases, such as MBD.
 

erlabella

Member
Original Poster
EllenD":2demnmmh said:
Yes, you must separate them, so please put a divider in their tank. That's step one.

What UVB lights and basking lights are you using for each tank? This is most likely your problem, improper, inadequate, obstructed, or too old UVB lights, or a combination of all of these. We can help you with this, but we need photos of each of their tanks and info on what each of your UVb lights are (brand, model/wattage, and type, meaning Compact, Coil, or long Tube), how old they are since last replaced, how far away from their basking spots in inches are the UVB lights, and are they obstructed by anything, like a mesh lid they are sitting on or a plastic cover on the fixture that covers the UVb light itself.

I bet 90% of the time (at least) when a dragon won't eat and is very thin like this, it's due to them not having a proper UVb light for bearded dragons, and then sometimes improper temperature zones taken by stick-on thermometers (cannot measure a basking spot temp with a stick-on thermometer at all) in addition to the improper UVb lights. Bearded Dragons are desert reptiles, and as such their entire survival (most all bodily functions) depends on them getting 13-14 hours of adequate UVb light ever single day of their lives. Without it their bodies cannot manufacture any Vitamin D3, which in-turn keeps them from absorbing and processing/using any nutrition/food or supplements that they eat or are given, including Calcium. Then it's a downward spiral and they just stop eating all together, they lose weight, and develop deficiency diseases, such as MBD.

Their UVB lights are tubes that are the same length as their enclosure. They are placed inside the terrariums at a 20 inches height. The one I use for the large enclosue (with 2 beardies) is a UVB light tube from exo terra made for desert reptiles. It’s 40 w and 10.0 UVB. The other tube is from trixie, 30 w and 12.0 UVB. I don’t remember what brand the basking lights are. But they hang lower than 20 inches. (Also inside the cage) I changed their UVB lights 2 months ago and haven’t really noticed any difference.
 

PodunkKhaleesi

Hatchling Member
Is it the Exo Terra Desert Glow? If so, you’re not the first person on this forum to have issues with that light. I’m unfamiliar with the other brand, but that’s inconsequential because there are only two acceptable UVB lights: the Reptisun 10.0 (you’ll want a T5 since your cage is on the taller side) or an Arcadia 12%. Check out the lighting guide on this site for more detailed information on why one of these lights is vital for a bearded dragon. Often what a beardie owner thinks is an appetite issue is really a lighting issue. If you don’t have the proper basking site temperatures or an adequate UV light, you’ll see a dragon start to shut down and lose its appetite. So I suggest, with great urgency, that you get these UV lights as soon as possible. I’ve seen them in chain pet stores but you can also order them on Amazon (and Amazon usually has pretty good prices on the Reptisun). Also, what are the basking temperatures, and are you measuring them with a digital thermometer? Dial/stick on thermometers can’t give an accurate basking site reading so if you don’t have a digital thermometer you need one pronto. We’ve identified the current UV lighting as inadequate, but the actual cage temperatures will provide another piece of the puzzle. Do you have pictures of the enclosures as well?
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
erlabella":26f5fhnw said:
AHBD":26f5fhnw said:
Hi Erla, sorry that your beardies are not doing well. What have they been eating, anything besides mealworms ? Did they drink water in any way before all this happened ? And do you keep them together or all separate. If you can, post pics of each individual dragon [ full body shot from above ] and also pictures of the enclosure as well as the lights. Here's how :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them

They’ve eaten cabbage, chinese cabbage, garden rocket, cucumber, apples, bell peppers, carrots, sweet potatoes, pears and other stuff. No they don’t know how to drink but I usually give them cucumber everyday. Ressi is alone in a cage, but Messi and Rey are together right now. I don’t have the money nor space to buy another cage right now so I just try my best to seperate them like putting a wall between them in the cage or something.

This is Rey:

95806-2046136810.jpg

This is Messi:

95806-9504404813.jpg

This is Ressi:

95806-9665100891.jpg

I would cut the cucumber - it's got zero nutritional value to a bearded dragon.
Similar for apples & pears - OK only as a sweet treat occasionally.
http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutritionframeset.html

I think part of the problem is zero live insects in their diets, adults still require regular live insect feeds to be healthy , in the wild bearded dragons are opportunistic predators (insectivores) and rarely eat vegetable material as in their natural range herbs and fruits and flowers are rarely available as a food sore.
This is a good guide to follow :
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=236074

I think the problems are most likely due to :
>> cohabitation
>> poor diet (though they all OK to be - not as malnourished as I imagined before I say the images)
>> inadequate UVA & UVB most likely
>> temperatures ?
>> inadequate supplementation ?

Not enough information to say more.

And all three need to be housed in their own individual tanks ASAP , this will ensure everyone gets their share of the food and access to the prime basking spot and will reduce stress due to domination.
Is also best if they can not see each other all day everyday , as this is enough to stress a submissive dragon. (I'm guessing the 2nd dragon is the one you are most worried about (Messi) , the two R's look quite good to me.
Ressi being the one on the best condition (nice fat base of tail !) .
Messi is not too bad looking either - but is definitely leaner (this may or may not be due to health or husbandry issues).

How old are the UV lights in each tank ?
Exactly what UV lighting do you have and how is it set set up :
>>> ontop mesh lids ?
>>> in a reflector dome ?
>>> brand of UVB lighting ?
>>> wattage (especially if it's a compact curly type) ?
>>> compact globe ? t8 tube ? t5ho tube ?
>>> distance from the basking spots to each tank's UVB lighting ?
 

PodunkKhaleesi

Hatchling Member
There’s potentially some really good news here: impaction or illness may not even be an issue. Based on the husbandry info you provided, if you upgrade their UV lights to Reptisun or Arcadia tubes, house the dragons separately, get a digital thermometer so you can be 100% sure your basking temps are in the desired 95-105F range for adults (and that the cool side and warm side have appropriate ambient temperatures), and stick with staple greens (collard, turnip, mustard, dandelion greens) and staple veggies (like butternut squash) and get rid of the zero nutritional value items like cucumber and cabbage (and ditch the fruit on a daily basis, as it’s an occasional/treat food), then you will likely see a drastically positive change for all your dragons. And as another member mentioned, adults still require insect protein and although they need much less of it than babies (with babies you want approximately 70-80% of the diet to be insects, and with adults this higher ratio is no longer necessary). Because protein is offered less, the quality of the feeder insects is very important. I’m not sure what country you’re in, but are you able to acquire dubia roaches, BSFL (also known as calciworms/reptiworms), or silkworms? These are the three most nutritious feeder insects. Crickets, when properly gutloaded (feed them the kinds of foods you would feed your bearded dragon and avoid feeding them things like cat food) can be made to be more nutritious. Mealworms and superworms aren’t good staple feeder insects (I avoid them entirely because of their high fat content and because they’re harder on a beardie’s digestive system). If you’re concerned about dehydration (have they been eating anything? Bugs? Veggies?) then I would order a cup of hornworms. I haven’t met a bearded dragon that doesn’t go insane for them, and their high moisture content makes them a great feeder when a beardie is ill or dehydrated. Have they had any bowel movements in the past week? If so, were they solid and well formed or were they extremely runny and foul smelling? Keep us posted with any additional information you feel might be beneficial for members to know in order to help. The pictures are encouraging, as I think everyone was bracing themselves for photos showing emaciated creatures on the brink of death but they’re in pretty decent shape weight wise given the circumstances. Definitely post updates! Everyone here just wants to see your babies healthy and happy, and if you’re willing to put in the time and effort to correct the cage/food/lighting situation then this can and will get better.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
PodunkKhaleesi":fycpw9mi said:
There’s potentially some really good news here: impaction or illness may not even be an issue. Based on the husbandry info you provided, if you upgrade their UV lights to Reptisun or Arcadia tubes, house the dragons separately, get a digital thermometer so you can be 100% sure your basking temps are in the desired 95-105F range for adults (and that the cool side and warm side have appropriate ambient temperatures), and stick with staple greens (collard, turnip, mustard, dandelion greens) and staple veggies (like butternut squash) and get rid of the zero nutritional value items like cucumber and cabbage (and ditch the fruit on a daily basis, as it’s an occasional/treat food), then you will likely see a drastically positive change for all your dragons. And as another member mentioned, adults still require insect protein and although they need much less of it than babies (with babies you want approximately 70-80% of the diet to be insects, and with adults this ratio flips to approximately 20% insects). Because protein is offered less, the quality of the feeder insects is very important. I’m not sure what country you’re in, but are you able to acquire dubia roaches, BSFL (also known as calciworms/reptiworms), or silkworms? These are the three most nutritious feeder insects. Crickets, when properly gutloaded (feed them the kinds of foods you would feed your bearded dragon and avoid feeding them things like cat food) can be made to be more nutritious. Mealworms and superworms aren’t good staple feeder insects (I avoid them entirely because of their high fat content and because they’re harder on a beardie’s digestive system). If you’re concerned about dehydration (have they been eating anything? Bugs? Veggies?) then I would order a cup of hornworms. I haven’t met a bearded dragon that doesn’t go insane for them, and their high moisture content makes them a great feeder when a beardie is ill or dehydrated. Have they had any bowel movements in the past week? If so, were they solid and well formed or were they extremely runny and foul smelling? Keep us posted with any additional information you feel might be beneficial for members to know in order to help. The pictures are encouraging, as I think everyone was bracing themselves for photos showing emaciated creatures on the brink of death but they’re in pretty decent shape weight wise given the circumstances. Definitely post updates! Everyone here just wants to see your babies healthy and happy, and if you’re willing to put in the time and effort to correct the cage/food/lighting situation then this can and will get better.

I might be criticized for saying this , but the evidence based on studies of wild dragons, is that 20% insect protein is insufficient for adult dragons , the proteins in vegetables are not the same as those on insects (or pultry , or eggs , or mammals) .
For this reason I recommend some live high quality insect protein for adult dragons on a daily basis.

I feed my crickets RepCal Adult Bearded Dragon Pellets (straight from the bottle) + carrot + buk choi , and this seems to work well.

If you gutload your insects with rubbish foods , expect the insects to be rubbish nutritionally for the lizard who is going to eat them.
So essentially , don't skimp on the food for the feeder insects , and don't skimp on the food for the pet lizards.
This is I believe the best guide for setting up your dragon's diet
Developed based on science and in the Merck Vet Manual :
http://www.completecritter.com/bearded-dragon.html
beardie_food_pyramid.png
 

PodunkKhaleesi

Hatchling Member
kingofnobbys":1rokg3v7 said:
PodunkKhaleesi":1rokg3v7 said:
There’s potentially some really good news here: impaction or illness may not even be an issue. Based on the husbandry info you provided, if you upgrade their UV lights to Reptisun or Arcadia tubes, house the dragons separately, get a digital thermometer so you can be 100% sure your basking temps are in the desired 95-105F range for adults (and that the cool side and warm side have appropriate ambient temperatures), and stick with staple greens (collard, turnip, mustard, dandelion greens) and staple veggies (like butternut squash) and get rid of the zero nutritional value items like cucumber and cabbage (and ditch the fruit on a daily basis, as it’s an occasional/treat food), then you will likely see a drastically positive change for all your dragons. And as another member mentioned, adults still require insect protein and although they need much less of it than babies (with babies you want approximately 70-80% of the diet to be insects, and with adults this ratio flips to approximately 20% insects). Because protein is offered less, the quality of the feeder insects is very important. I’m not sure what country you’re in, but are you able to acquire dubia roaches, BSFL (also known as calciworms/reptiworms), or silkworms? These are the three most nutritious feeder insects. Crickets, when properly gutloaded (feed them the kinds of foods you would feed your bearded dragon and avoid feeding them things like cat food) can be made to be more nutritious. Mealworms and superworms aren’t good staple feeder insects (I avoid them entirely because of their high fat content and because they’re harder on a beardie’s digestive system). If you’re concerned about dehydration (have they been eating anything? Bugs? Veggies?) then I would order a cup of hornworms. I haven’t met a bearded dragon that doesn’t go insane for them, and their high moisture content makes them a great feeder when a beardie is ill or dehydrated. Have they had any bowel movements in the past week? If so, were they solid and well formed or were they extremely runny and foul smelling? Keep us posted with any additional information you feel might be beneficial for members to know in order to help. The pictures are encouraging, as I think everyone was bracing themselves for photos showing emaciated creatures on the brink of death but they’re in pretty decent shape weight wise given the circumstances. Definitely post updates! Everyone here just wants to see your babies healthy and happy, and if you’re willing to put in the time and effort to correct the cage/food/lighting situation then this can and will get better.

I might be criticized for saying this , but the evidence based on studies of wild dragons, is that 20% insect protein is insufficient for adult dragons , the proteins in vegetables are not the same as those on insects (or pultry , or eggs , or mammals) .
For this reason I recommend some live high quality insect protein for adult dragons on a daily basis.

I feed my crickets RepCal Adult Bearded Dragon Pellets (straight from the bottle) + carrot + buk choi , and this seems to work well.

If you gutload your insects with rubbish foods , expect the insects to be rubbish nutritionally for the lizard who is going to eat them.


I actually agree with this. I feed my adults insects on a daily basis (just not nearly as much as when they were young). Even with the ratio in the 20-30% range, they still get a steady supply of high quality protein. Many years ago I worked as a research assistant for a herp vet studying the effects of a higher protein diet on adult bearded dragons. He was interested in the correlation between the rise of gout in reptiles and higher protein intake. When I acquired my own bearded dragons, his research and the advice he gave me stuck with me, so I made sure not to bombard my adult beardies with too much protein and to focus on making sure the insects they did receive on a daily basis were fed a very specific diet to minimize uric acid (which can be an issue for dubias in particular). I gutload my crickets with Repcal pellets as well, in addition to vegetables that are beardie safe. But with dubias, I prefer Bug Burger, as it’s lower in protein than the Repcal pellets. Given that my first two bearded dragons lived to be 17 and 18 years old, I’m a huge believer in the insect/veggie ratio he advocated. Both dragons died without ever having had a single health issue, passing their yearly health exams with flying colors. Meanwhile, a friend who fed his adult beardie a much higher ratio of insects was devastated when the animal’s limbs engorged, later receiving a gout and fatty liver disease diagnosis. It was particularly sad because he spent a lot of money on some of the healthiest feeder insects out there. But he’d simply never given much thought to the amount of insects he fed his adult lizard, so the beardie was gorging on piles of insects daily. My current herp vet is a big believer in capping the protein intake so that it’s a minimum of 20% of the diet and a maximum of 40%. I think this is a pretty decent range as well. And I continue to tailor what I use to gutload insects to the species (Repcal pellets/veggies for crickets, Bug Burger and veggies for dubia). And I never feed insects cat food, processed people food, etc. The “you are what you eat” adage is very appropriate when it comes to gutloading insects.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
I totally agree about adding healthy, live staple insects to their diets at least 2-3 times a week, this is not optional at all. They cannot exist solely on greens and veggies, even if they are only appropriate ones like Collard Greens, Mustard Greens, Turnip Greens, Escarole, Endive, Dandelion Greens, Swiss Chard, Bok Choy and Pak Choy, and Arugula (No Kale and No Spinach at all if you can help it, they both contain very high Oxalate content, which binds to all available free Calcium they take in, and this keeps them from absorbing any of the Calcium they take in, and instead they just "urinate" or excrete the Calcium Oxalate out; this is what often causes kidney stones in humans and in reptiles both). So I'd be willing to say that the fact that you are not feeding them any live insects at all is up to 50% of your problem and the reason that they are so skinny. You need to pick a healthy, live, staple insect (never feed a dragon any freeze-dried or already dead insects, they contain no moisture, little nutritional value at all because it is all depleted from them, and they often cause bad impactions, their insects must be live and appropriate for dragons to digest) and for 3 adult dragons I would be ordering your live staple insects from an online vendor in bulk, as this will be cheapest for you by far. I had my first dragon from a month old up until he died at just shy of 13 years old, and he ate live insects pretty much every day of his life, as already mentioned above. He got a large salad every day that consisted of only the greens listed above along with lots of FRESH veggies such as multiple types of squash, bell peppers, green beans, peas and pea pods, sweet potatoes/yams, some carrots, some broccoli, etc. He also got a small piece of fruit once or twice a week, but that's it, as most fruit is full of sugar that they don't need.

You need to start buying either live Crickets, Dubia Roaches or one of the other species of roaches, Silkworms (hard to find live online), or BSFL/Phoenix Worms/NutriGrubs/CalciWorms (all the same thing, just different brands). I currently have 3 dragons, one male that is a year and 3 months old, a female that is just turning a year old, and another male that is 6 months old, and I feed BSFL worms as my live staple insect, and I supplement them with 1-2 Superworms a day at most (no more than that, Superworms are fatty). Obviously the 6 month old eats pretty much ALL live insects and not many Superworms, he is getting a mix of BSFL and Dubia Roaches until he hits a year old. But the bottom line is that you cannot expect a Bearded Dragon to exist only on Greens and Veggies and stay healthy and of a good weight. They must have live insect protein at least 2-3 times a week, and if you choose to only feed them the live insects 2-3 times a week instead of every day, then on those 2-3 days you must give them a 10-15 minute live insect "Feeding Session" where they are allowed to eat as many of the live insects as they want to, and then you give them their fresh Greens and Veggies AFTER they eat their live insects. This will ensure that they are getting enough healthy protein to build muscle, as now they are getting little to no protein at all.

The other half of your issue is totally inadequate UVB light, for a couple of reasons. First of all, no UVB tube at all, regardless of what brand it is or whether it's a very strong T5 tube can be at a distance of 20" away from their basking spot. That's much too far away from their basking spot/platform, and they have not been getting much adequate UVB light at all. Even a 12% Arcadia T5 UVB tube, which is about the best UVB light you can buy for a Bearded Dragon, must be within at least 11-12" of their Basking Spot. At a distance of 20" away from their Basking Spots, regardless of whether it's an adequate light or not it's not going to be able to get any adequate UVb light to them while they bask. It's good that you have them mounted underneath the mesh lid (which blocks up to 40% of all UVb light), that's a must, especially at 20" away, but you need to figure out how to lower the UVB tubes over their Basking Spot/Platforms or raise their Basking Spot/Platforms up to within at least 11-12" if they are T5 UVb tubes, and within 6: if they are T8 UVb tubes. Also, I hope that all of your UVB tube fixtures have Metal Reflectors in them sitting behind the UVb tubes, so that the UVB light can be reflected throughout their large tanks, if not you need to order some Slip-On Metal Reflectors (Amazon sells them very cheaply, Arcadia brand) that are the length of eatch UVB tube.

*********As far as the 2 types of UVb lights you are using, the Exo Terra UVB Desert Glo UVb tube, the 40 watt version, is only a T8 strength UVB tube!!! This means that it must be mounted underneath the mesh lid, which I believe it you do have it mounted unobstructed and under the mesh lid, However, a T8 strength UVB tube must be at least within 6" or so of the Basking Spot/Platform!!! If you have it at a distance of 20" away from their basking Spot, they are not getting much UVB light at all!!! I know people who are using the Desert Glo UVB tubes successfully as long as they are the 10.0 version and they are mounted underneath the mesh and within 6" of the basking spot. So this is definitely a lot of your issue! You really need to figure out how to get that Desert Glo within at least 6" of them, otherwise none of the UVB light from that tube is reaching them at all. Also, make sure there is a metal reflector inside of the fixture...***

****The other UVb tube you're using, the "Trixie" brand tube, is a totally inadequate UVB light. Trixie is a German pet supplies company that does not specialize in Reptile products, but rather they sell products for ALL types of pets, dogs, cats, birds, rodents, etc. and they do not even manufacture their own Reptile lights, they import them from China, just like the Pet Smart house-brand "All Living Things" does, as well as "Reptile One", and they are all essentially the exact same lights. Again, this tube is not only again a T8 UVB tube that must be at least within 6" of their basking Spots and at a distance of 20" they are not getting any UVb light to them at all, but in the case of this UVB tube this might be a good thing, as these are one of the many off-brand lights that emit harmful light rays as a byproduct of the manufacturing process, and are well know to cause eye and neurological damage. So the fact that you have this tube so far away from their basking spot has probably saved them from developing severe eye problems. *****

So you absolutely need to figure out a way to get any T8 UVb tubes within at least 6" of their basking spots, unobstructed, for them to get any adequate UVb light. The Exo Terra Desert Glo 40 watt T8 UVB tube can be used successfully, but again, not if it's 20" away from their basking spot, because it is only a T8 tube it must be within at least 6" of them. And you need to replace that Trixie brand tube ASAP with either another Exo Terra Desert Glo or a better UVB tube, like either a Reptisun 10.0 or an Arcadia brand.

You have very tall tanks apparently if your UVB tubes, which are apparently strapped to the underside of the mesh lids and inside the tanks, are at a distance of 20 inches away from their basking spots. My best advice to you (especially since your dragons have not been getting any proper UVB light for quite a while) is to upgrade to T5 strength UVb tubes, which are far more adequate for such tall tanks. While you'll still need to mount them inside the tanks and under the mesh lids, since the tanks are so tall, the T5 strength tubes only need to be within 11-12" of the basking spots. This is going to be much easier for you to accomplish than getting the T8 tubes within 6" of the basking spots. Since you must get rid of that Trixie T8 UVB tube (I DEFINITELY WOULD FEAR PUTTING THIS BRAND OF UVB TUBE WITHIN THE NECESSARY 6" OF THEIR BASKING SPOT, AS THEY ARE LIKELY TO DEVELOP EYE DAMAGE OR NEUROLOGICAL ISSUES BECAUSE OF IT, BUT AT ANY FURTHER AWAY THE T8 TUBES WILL NOT GET ANY UVB LIGHT TO YOUR DRAGONS, SO THIS IS WHY YOU NEED TO GET RID OF AT LEAST THIS PARTICULAR TUBE). I'd take this opportunity to upgrade at least that particular tube to either an Arcadia 12% T5 UVb tube or a Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVb tube, and get either of these mounted within at least 6" of their basking spots.

As far as the Exo Terra Desert Glo T8 tube, you need to get it within 6" of the basking spot ASAP.

Since you have to replace T8 UVB tubes once every 6 months anyway (that is the age that all T8 UVb tubes decay and stop emitting any UVB light at all; this is why you end up saving a lot of money by switching to T5 UVB tubes anyway, they only need replaced once every year), whenever your current Exo Terra Desert Glo T8 turns 6 months old and you have to replace it anyway, I'd also upgrade this one to either the Arcadia or the Reptisun 10.0 T5 UVB tube as well. But right now, since you said it's only 2 months old, so you have 4 months left on the Desert Glo T8 tube, and since it's a decent T8 tube, you can still use it for the remaining 4 months it has left as long as you get it down within the 6" of their basking spot. The Trixie brand UVb tube needs tossed now, it's not doing them any good at all at 20" away from their basking spot, and putting it within 6" of their basking spot will no doubt cause more harm than good. So please upgrade that tube ASAP.

Once you separate the 2 dragons that are being housed together (not optional, they need to be separated ASAP, at least with a divider), and you replace that Trixie T8 UVB tube with an adequate one and make sure it is mounted within either 6" if replaced with a T8 or within 11" if replaced with a T5, and you get the Desert Glo T8 tube from 20" away to 6" away from their basking light or replace it with a proper T5 tube an get it mounted within 11", and you start feeding your dragons live insect protein at least 2-3 times a week (every day is better), they will start eating more as their appetites will pick up , they will start to put weight back on, they will have much more energy, and they will all be happy and healthier. Right now they are not well from a total lack of adequate UVB light, an improper diet that contains no live insect protein, and the 2 that are housed together are suffering from dominance stress....
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
I was also expecting to see really skinny lizards, but Rey + Ressi actually look pretty healthy....the tail base + back legs are still nice I think. The female { I think that's Messi ? ] in the middle probably looks the thinnst but not emaciated or anything. Still, you want to fix whatever it is that's caused them to stop eating. The lighting was already covered, and I agree that the Exo terra Reptiglo [ t8] is O.K. at a close distance, so you'll need to mount it in the tank within 8-10" max. In the meantime maybe you can shop for the other bulbs that Ellen + others recommended.

It's also possible that they are trying to brumate, many dragons do so this time of year.
 

erlabella

Member
Original Poster
kingofnobbys":3rznjqyf said:
erlabella":3rznjqyf said:
AHBD":3rznjqyf said:
Hi Erla, sorry that your beardies are not doing well. What have they been eating, anything besides mealworms ? Did they drink water in any way before all this happened ? And do you keep them together or all separate. If you can, post pics of each individual dragon [ full body shot from above ] and also pictures of the enclosure as well as the lights. Here's how :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them

They’ve eaten cabbage, chinese cabbage, garden rocket, cucumber, apples, bell peppers, carrots, sweet potatoes, pears and other stuff. No they don’t know how to drink but I usually give them cucumber everyday. Ressi is alone in a cage, but Messi and Rey are together right now. I don’t have the money nor space to buy another cage right now so I just try my best to seperate them like putting a wall between them in the cage or something.

This is Rey:

95806-2046136810.jpg

This is Messi:

95806-9504404813.jpg

This is Ressi:

95806-9665100891.jpg

I would cut the cucumber - it's got zero nutritional value to a bearded dragon.
Similar for apples & pears - OK only as a sweet treat occasionally.
http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutritionframeset.html

I think part of the problem is zero live insects in their diets, adults still require regular live insect feeds to be healthy , in the wild bearded dragons are opportunistic predators (insectivores) and rarely eat vegetable material as in their natural range herbs and fruits and flowers are rarely available as a food sore.
This is a good guide to follow :
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=236074

I think the problems are most likely due to :
>> cohabitation
>> poor diet (though they all OK to be - not as malnourished as I imagined before I say the images)
>> inadequate UVA & UVB most likely
>> temperatures ?
>> inadequate supplementation ?

Not enough information to say more.

And all three need to be housed in their own individual tanks ASAP , this will ensure everyone gets their share of the food and access to the prime basking spot and will reduce stress due to domination.
Is also best if they can not see each other all day everyday , as this is enough to stress a submissive dragon. (I'm guessing the 2nd dragon is the one you are most worried about (Messi) , the two R's look quite good to me.
Ressi being the one on the best condition (nice fat base of tail !) .
Messi is not too bad looking either - but is definitely leaner (this may or may not be due to health or husbandry issues).

How old are the UV lights in each tank ?
Exactly what UV lighting do you have and how is it set set up :
>>> ontop mesh lids ?
>>> in a reflector dome ?
>>> brand of UVB lighting ?
>>> wattage (especially if it's a compact curly type) ?
>>> compact globe ? t8 tube ? t5ho tube ?
>>> distance from the basking spots to each tank's UVB lighting ?

I forgot to mention that I don’t give them fruit often. Only as treats. Also they don’t drink much water which is the only reason i give them cucumber.

Sadly, I only have access to mealworms, superworms and crickets. They have been fed mealworms and superworms a few days a week (which I also forgot to mention) but i will buy crickets soon.

I don’t have much money. I don’t work, and I don’t have a drivers license so this is gonna be very hard for me.

They do look skinnier irl, but you’re saying that they don’t look so bad and that makes me very happy :)
 
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What is a quick way to warm up a cold beardie? His heating element went out overnight and now he's very cold.
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Clapton is acclimating okay I think. He's quick as lightning so I'm not sure how much I should bring him out of his house yet. He's not at all interested in his salad though. I wonder if I should change what I'm giving him. Least he's eating his crickets.

Things to do:
Buy calcium powder
Material to raise surface for basking spot
Scenery decals for back of tank

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