Dewormer Questions

So my new rescue beardie was having foul diahrea for the past week and yesterday we went to the vet. They taught me how to give her the meds and said to give her the second dose in two weeks but thats all the info they gave me didnt even give me the name of the meds. Also when they did the fecal test they said they actually didn't find any parasites because they think the diahreaswooshed out to fast to carry any parasites(is this even possible?) Long story short she already took a solid poo today and has increased appetite but she sure is moody. Not so much in her actions but i van see it in her eyes and her colors are much darker then normal. Is this normal for dewormer treatments? Also should i give her a probiotic with this?

Hello,

Wow, I am very surprised that they didn't tell you which dewormer they used. I hope that it
was Panacur or Strongid & not Ivomec/Ivermectin. I am surprised too that they medicated
really, without any definitive answers. I have never heard of the parasites/worms going through
them so fast so as not to be able to read a fecal exam? I don't believe that is correct. They
should be able to determine something, even from a messier stool.
Is she lethargic or black bearding at all?
Giving probiotics would be a good idea, especially if she is acting a little bit off. You can also
keep her a little warmer overnight for a week or so, to around 75-80 for boosting her immune
system.
How is her appetite doing?

Tracie

Hey Tracie no she is not blackbearding shes actually been really sweat. She hates being in her tank but i know she needs all the uvb she can get atm since her last owner didnt have one and yes shes on pancur i calledd the vet to find out. She still has bad diahrea unfortunately which seems very painful and shes thrown up once but vet said thats normal for the first few days? Shes still super active and eating like a champ. She clears her salad bowl every day (turnip greens,carrots,bell pepper) and normally eats 60 crickets a week woth every other day dusted in calcium w d3. Vet told me to cut back to 30 this week tho to try and solidify her poops. She took one solid poop and i was so excited then today she had like explosive diahrea it literally shot across the tank i feel so bad for her

Hello,

Good to hear that the dewormer was just Panacur & not an Ivermectin dose.
I wouldn't say that throwing up is normal. Could she have eaten too much? What time did
you feed her, how close to lights out was it?
What are her basking temperatures in the tank?
It may take a week or so for the diarrhea to get better. Everything has to flush out of her
system first before things will improve. Poor girl, that has to be rough on her!
How old is she?
At least she has a good appetite right now & isn't black bearding. Since she is so active, it
doesn't sound like she feels too bad though.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie

That vet doesn't know much about beardies. If she's throwing up there's a reason. What exact type of lights do you have, what are the temps. + how are you measuring them ? She needs a basking spot of about 100+ a cool side around 80. If she's not warm enough or if she's too hot, that can cause vomiting.

Here's a link to your other thread so her pictures are here...she is a chubby little girl :

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=237776&p=1826298#p1826536

Sorry i havent responded im still trying to figure this forum out lol. But shes doing much better now. Shes taken two solid poops in the past few days and her appetite s still increasing. Shes four yrs old and weighed .288 at the vet. But all her temps are right Nd so are the lights. Getting the right lights was priority because the main reason i rescued her was due to incorrect lighting. I think shes doing really good honestly i just think her new diet and meds and lights overwhelmed her and was causing the sick stomach.

I'm glad she's doing much better, and thank you so much for taking her in and giving her a loving home where she gets everything she needs.

Just as an FYI, you really need to be very careful when taking a dragon to a vet and deciding to put her on any medication without forcing the vet to give you all the information they have about what her test results have shown, what their diagnosis is and why they came to that diagnosis, and what medications they want to put her on and why they chose those medications. It's very unfortunate, but lately I myself have been woken up and come to realize that #1) It's extremely difficult in the US to find a qualified, experienced, educated reptile vet with bearded dragon knowledge and experience, and #2) It seems as though most of these "exotic" vets and even some reptile specialists are afraid to say "I'm not sure what is going on here, and I want to consult with another reptile specialist who has more experience than me to get their opinion".

It's becoming so common for any vet to agree to see a bearded dragon even when they have very little education or experience with treating them, and I think this is happening more and more simply because bearded dragons are becoming much more popular family pets. Vets don't want to turn them away or refuse to see bearded dragons, as they are so popular now and word of mouth travels quickly, so if they refuse to see a bearded dragon because they are not qualified or even uncomfortable seeing them the word will travel around that they are not the place to take reptiles. So they accept all pets into their practices, and half the time they don't even run any diagnostic tests at all, not even a fecal test! They just hear "loose, runny stools, lethargy, lack of appetite, vomiting" and they assume that the dragon has parasites (though they have no idea what type of parasites or what the counts/loads of these parasites are). Then they end up prescribing at least one, usually at least two prescription medications, one is usually a dewormer like Panacur to cover for Pinworms, and the other is usually an Anti-Protozoan medication to cover for Coccidia, as those are the two most common parasites found in the stools of bearded dragons. What they don't tell you is that most all bearded dragons have a low to moderate count/load of both Coccidia and/or Pinworms in their GI Tracts at any given time, they live with them both most of their lives without them causing any problems at all. So while the poor dragons are being treated with very harsh medications that make them much, much worse than they were to begin with, they aren't being treated for the real cause of their symptoms in the first place...

Just please remember that it is your right as the owner of the dragon and the person paying the veterinarian to ask any and all questions you want to ask the vet. Never be afraid to ask any and all questions you have, do not feel like you "are being a pain" by asking a lot of questions or by questioning why the vet isn't running any very routine tests like a fecal test, blood work, an x-ray, etc. And if a vet ever tells you that "They suspect parasites" or that they suspect anything else, and then they tell you that they want to put your dragon on a medication "Just in Case" or because they "Probably have parasites" or any other condition, you absolutely must ask the vet why they aren't running the necessary tests to actually diagnose and confirm what is wrong with your dragon BEFORE your dragon is forced to take harsh medications that may not help at all and will only make your dragon feel worse. And if your dragon even does have a fecal test that comes back with a low to moderate count/load for Coccidia or Pinworms, these are most likely NOT the causes of what is causing your dragon to be ill, and it's your choice completely whether or not you want to medicate for these, or whether or not you want to have further diagnostic test run to rule out other conditions that could be causing your dragon's illness. Don't ever think you don't have a right to be involved in your pet's care, it's ultimately your decision, not the vet's.

I agree with everything youve said to the T but it poses a question, i suspected parasites personally and said that to them and theyjust kind of went with it is my opinion but if it isnt parasites what else could cause those symptoms? Btw she still seems to be getting more and more solid poop everyday which is great but two days ago she pretty much straight up peed while she was running around and she already pooped that day. Could that be from the dewormer also? Shes only done that one other time and then before that her whole poop camr out that way but for two days in a row she like had the squirts AFTER she pooped so im wondering if shes wayy to over hydrated or maybe its the meds? Or maybe its even something completly different then parasites?

It is possible that she does have some parasites but also that as you suspect, a whole new life for her + the stress from the move may cause some of these symptoms. It's good that she's eating well, not lost any weight so she seems to be pretty healthy. So the combo of stress/excitement, new food + surrondings and daily outings can contribute to the loose poo. Keep her in the tank most of the day, esp. after eating so she can digest her food completely. Aside from that, you really don't want accidents on yourself, the bed or the carpet. :shock:

Let her settle in + see how she does through this month. She'll probably be fine.

Yeah she definetly loves us. Shell sleep up on my chest and shoulders and i bring her outside to bask in the sun alot too. She loves her new set ups too she has an awesome basking branch and i made her a new hide box last night that she slept in all night and she absolutly destroys food so everything else wise im super lucky for but as soon we get her pooping right ill feel much better lol

Well the diahrea has been continuing. She got better for about two days then today she took the BIGGEST POOP. Ive ever seen which was very watery then an hr later she had straight fluid coming out in the squirts style. Vet recromended i get some Oxbow probiotics. What do you think about them?

That was my next suggestion, some type of probiotic and have you tried any soy yogurt ?

Yes that is what they referred too. I havent been able to find any yet unfortunately

Hello,

How is your girl doing today, has she improved some?
Have you tried going onto this site to try & find another vet?

http://www.herpvetconnection.com


Is she taking in any oral fluids right now? I would try to get some into her if she is still
having looser stools, to keep her from getting dehydrated.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie