MBD and Parasite recovery?

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SootyShep

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Hello, I'm not very good at compiling things I need to say ( I do jump around a bit) so please excuse me for that but I have some concerns about my dragon.

About 4 weeks ago I bought a bearded dragon from petco and named it Lemon (I dont know the age, he's about 6 1/2 inches from tail tip to snout). I'm not aware if Lemon is male or female, it doesnt matter to me tbh but I THOUGHT I seen little lumps indicating a male so we'll go with "He" for now. Anyway! Lemon was pretty full of energy when I seen him, but I noticed that the beardies there were not being fed live anything. They just had dried worms. I asked when purchasing how much live to feed them and where can I buy the food in the store. They told me they haven't had shipments of live food for the beardies because of the storms happening. I instantly knew I was going to have problems with the health of this poor creature. I did research immediately and learned about MBD and all the other illnesses that can occur. But Lemon was pretty full of energy and SEEMINGLY OK, I just wanted to give him a good new home and life aware from a pet store.

I set up Lemons tank, he's in a 20 gal (my dad is building me a big viv) he has tube UVB T8, heat lamp and a lamp for night (no light, ceramic for night if it gets too cold in my room), during the day his hot spot WAS at 95 until recently (I've managed to bump it to 110 exact), paper towels for his bedding for now and I've been ordering him dubai roaches small and powdering them with supplement that has D3 (he refuses to eat the veggies! UGH!).

Now to the problem. Somewhere down the line Lemon decided to stop using his leg and become 'tired'. I though, great, how could this happen he only has a log maybe 3-4 inches high to basks on (I didnt deck out his tank with accessories off the bat). I thought maybe he jumped off and broke his leg. I took him to the vet, did x-rays and the works. No breaks. The doctor gave me inflammation meds for him said he might have injured himself and to keep an eye on him. Not even 5 days later (before his scheduled check-up) he stopped using both back legs and became extremely lethargic. No crawling, just 'sleeping'. I knew it was MBD. I had taken anything he could climb on out after the appointment so there was no real way he could jump or hurt himself from falling. So MBD had to be the case. I take him in and they tell me thats what they feel is the culprit as well.

So along with MBD test they also did parasite testing and found 2 types I think. One was coccidia and I forget the other, I'm sure they'll tell me today. They gave him some injections for the MBD yesterday (11/7/17) . Now today he just seems the same. If anything he's seeming sort of worse, limb wise? Even after the visit? He barely crawls and I have to bring the food to him (btw he wont eat ANY veggies I provide, just roaches. I try to give him all the best greens, no lettuce or kale). So he DOES eat, he just cant get to them. He's eating maybe 5-8 a day. His poop is fine, despite the parasites making it smell and I've been cleaning it up instantly. The only GOOD response I've seen today is he's not lying flat anymore he at least has his head perked up a bit? I just dont know what I should be looking for.. The good signs that treatment is working. I just want this little dragon to be happy and healthy, this is heartbreaking for me.

Also today they are treating him for parasites and I read that it can be super harsh on these guys. He's so SMALL. I dont even know how old he is so I'm terribly worried he'll stop eating once the parasite meds kick in (or worse, give up and die from the stress of it all). Is there any way I can avoid the tummy troubles or anything I can give him to help if they do occur? How long until the MBD treatments kick in? Did he already have MBD before I brought him home because it just happened out of nowhere? I don't even handle him much because I'm scared it'll hurt him. I want to give him a soak because I figure it'll help and feel good but I'm not sure if I should? Any advice would be appreciated!
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
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Which type of fixture do you have for your T8? Is it the Zilla Desert 50 with a slimline fixture? If so, have you removed the clear plastic that covers the bulb? That will intercept the UVB and for some reason they don't mention that on the packaging. How far from the basking area do you have the UVB light? While lighting is a critical factor, I'm not sure that MBD would have formed this quickly. The x-rays they took should have told them about his bone density.

Another possible issue is that he ate something too large or ate too much and is impacted but you said he is pooping. Is he pooping regularly and when he does, does he appear to strain?

When the vet tested for parasites, did they mention what the parasite count is? If it's a low count, then he may be able to manage it on his own without harsh meds. While he is on meds I would offer him water by dripping it on his nose so he can lick it up. Keeping him well hydrated will help protect his kidneys.

What kind of thermometer are you using to measure his temperatures? It's important to get accurate surface readings rather than ambient temp readings using the dials that come with the kits. It's possible that his temperature gradient is off and making him not feel well.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
I agree, he is most likely only between 1-2 months old, and it's quite uncommon for them to develop MBD so severe in this limited amount of time to cause paralysis in their back legs. That is usually caused by an impaction in their gastrointestinal tract that is pressing against their spinal column and causing the paralysis. However, if you are only using a T8 strength UVB tube and it is being obstructed by anything, like the clear plastic cover that comes on the Zilla Slimline fixtures (blocks 100% of the UVB light), a mesh lid to the tank like most of them have (mesh block about 40% of the UVB light emitted), or the UVB tube is not within about 6" of his main Basking Spot on the Hot Side of his aquarium, or a combination of all of these things, he has not been getting adequate UVB light.

The Zilla Desert 50 T8 UVB tube is the only one that I'm aware of that comes with a fixture in a package deal at Petco and that has a clear plastic safety cover installed on the fixture that totally covers the UVb tube. It's a very common issue because I think that Zilla package deal that includes both the 18" T8 UVB tube and a fixture only costs around $40 at Petco, so it seems like a very good deal, but unfortunately it's a very weak UVB tube to begin with, and that clear plastic cover pretty much blocks all of the UVb light emitted by the tube, just as glass does. No strength of UVB can penetrate glass or clear plastic at all, just an FYI. And the PetSmart house-brand, called "All Living Things", is the exact same, weak UVB tube as the Zilla Desert 50 T8 tube, so both of those tubes are not on the recommended list of UVB tubes for bearded dragons, as being desert reptiles they require at least 13-14 hours a day under an adequate UVB tube light and a bright white basking bulb that is keeping their temperatures within the correct ranges.

As Cooper mentioned, if you're not using either a Digital Probe Thermometer with a Probe you can put right on his Main Basking Spot to measure the Basking Spot Surface Temperature (should be between 105-110 degrees max) or a Temperature Gun, but rather you're using any type of stick-on thermometer, you cannot measure his Basking Spot Surface Temperature at all, only the Hot Side Ambient (air) Temp and the Cool Side Ambient (air) Temp. However, those stick-on thermometers when tested are typically off by up to 20 degrees, so they are not to be trusted at all anyway. It's highly recommended that you buy a Digital Probe Thermometer, which only costs $10 at Petco or Petsmart.

Now if you have an 18" Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube in a different type of tube fixture, you likely do not have a clear plastic cover on the fixture and over the tube. However, you still cannot have a Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube on top of a mesh lid, it is not strong enough to have 40% of the UVB light it emits blocked by the mesh screen and still emit adequate UVB to your beardie. You must poke 4 holes in the mesh and then use either those long, plastic Zip ties or twine/string/shoelaces to strap the fixture to the underside of the mesh lid, in the Hot Side of the tank and directly over his Main Basking Spot (and right alongside his bright white basking bulb), so that he gets both lights at the same time while he's basking. This replicates natural sunlight for him. Also, the Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube still must be within 6" of his Main Basking Spot for him to absorb adequate UVB light. *****And ALL T8 UVB tubes must be replaced once every 6 months, as that is the age that they stop emitting any UVB light at all, even though they will not be "burnt out" at that point and they will still turn on and emit light, it will not be any UVB light after 6 months old.****

You're best to invest on Amazon.com (best prices on a package deal for both the UVB tube and a matching fixture with a metal reflector behind where the tube sits) in either a 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5 High-Output (HO) UVB tube and a 24" long tube fixture with a metal reflector included in it, or a 24" Arcadia 12% T5 UVB tube and a 24" tube fixture with a metal reflector included. These T5 strength UVB tubes can sit on top of a mesh lid and still emit adequate UVB to your beardie, as long as his Main Basking Spot is within at least 11" of the T5 UVB tube. Also, the T5 UVB tubes only need replaced once every 10 months to a year, as they emit adequate UVB light up until that age. This will benefit your dragon greatly, especially if he already may be suffering from a bit of a calcium deficiency.

What "MBD Test" are you referring to that they did? Your dragon is too young and small to take blood from in order to do blood work, so the only test that will confirm or rule-out MBD at this point should have been the x-ray that they did to look at his leg for a fracture. That regular, flat x-ray should have shown them whether or not his bone density was good or bad...did they tell you that based on his x-ray he definitely has MBD? And what "injections" did they give him? I'm assuming that one of them was a calcium injection, but what other meds did they give him?

You've got to be careful, as too many medications can really make your little guy sick, he's very small and unfortunately "exotics" vets, well really any vets, they tend to treat low to moderate Coccidia and Pinworm counts that do not need to be treated at all. Unless your beardie stopped eating or was lethargic all the time as a result of a "high" or a "too numerous to count" Coccidia or Pinworm count, he didn't need to be given the "worming" medication (probably Panacur) or anything for the Coccidia...I'm sorry they did this, it seems as the vet didn't explain much of anything to you very well...

Did you get a copy of his medical chart with the vet's notes and such on it? Or a digital copy of his x-ray? If not, it's a really good idea to call them as ask them to email you both his entire chart with all of the vet's notes, diagnoses, all of the injections and medications he was given along with the dosages, etc. and then the digital file containing his x-ray. You can then post both of them here and we can certainly help you work through what is actually going on with him...
 

SootyShep

New member
Original Poster
I just want to say thanks to the few people who gave me advice and information about this post. I tried very hard to care for this little baby but he just didn't make it. I had even got into a bit of an argument with the vets this last visit because Lemon had to be put to sleep and they couldn't even give me a good enough reason as to why he became so unhealthy (and unfortunately I don't live in a great place so there's only ONE 'exotic' vet around). I even had a beardie rescuer come to my house to make sure everything I was doing was good enough. She tweaked my setup a bit, gave me care sheets, books, personal advice, etc. She takes care of 50+ beardies and I trust her. I spent well over $500 for the vet visits alone and honestly I'm just heartbroken. I'm not use to losing my pets this way.

I wont get a new baby, not for a while. But the next time I try, I feel l'll adopt an unwanted/abandoned adult beardie, since there are so many, and give them a chance at a good home.

Anyway I didn't want to leave this post open. Thanks for your time and help.
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
I'm saddened to hear he didn't make it =(. Sometimes they just have too much going against them despite our best efforts. Thank you for trying so hard to make him better and give him a good home. I'm sure he appreciated it. When you're ready, I think adopting a dragon who needs a good home is a great idea. It can be very rewarding to see them flourish with good care.
 
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