Please Help!! Concerned and lost.

Honey is 2yrs old and I had to get her spayed in August of this year (2017). Her clutches where becoming closer and closer together. When the vet did her spay she found polyps in her abdomen from some of the eggs actually rupturing in her abdomen. Fast forward to September and I noticed a lump in her abdomen near her incision and she was actually having some issues walking. Soon after her limbs become swollen. We have done x-ray and the x-rays show nothing. She was on Baytril and Meloxicam. I ended up going to another vet to get her blood work done, but they were more concerned about the inflammation, and put her bck on meds. She just finished the Tramadol. She's on Meloxicam again for another few days. She's also on Chloramphenicol as well for another 7 days. I also have to give her critical care and give her liquids via a syringe. She's still alert. Trying to walk normally, but can't because of the inflammation. Getting baths every day to also keep her hydrated. She goes bck this Friday (10/27) for a follow up. I am at a complete loss. I don't knw what's going on. I have done A LOT of research and I have more questions than I have answers. We will be doing the blood work this Friday as well. Can someone please help me figure out whats going on with my baby or at least help me with some things I can ask the vet?? Anything at this point is helpful! I also noticed that the tip of her tail is REALLY hard as well. She has feeling in her tail about mid way from the base and then doesn't even flinch! Her stool has what looks like sand in it, but she has been eating NOTHING in her cage and has ONLY been getting what she is supposed to. When she's in her cage she doesn't move at all. She lays under her basking lamp in her hammock. Her tank is 150 gallons. I use the Exo Terra Repti Glo 10.0 UVB light. I just changed her UVB light back in February. I use the Zoo Med Repro Basking Light 150w. I use the Rep-Cal Calcium w/D3 and the Rep-Cal w/o D3. I dont ise the calcium supplements together. I alternate between the two. Since its getting colder here in Ohio, I have been using the Rep-Cal w/D3. In the summer she's outside more than she's in her tank. Both of the calcium supplements are phosphorus free. I use the Rep-Cal Herptivite as her multivitamin since it has Beta Carotene and no Vitamin A. She gets Reptisafe in her water for bathing and drinking. Also started to give her Repta Boost as well that is made by Flukers to alternate between the Critical Care.

Hello,

Your poor girl, she has a beautiful tank too, by the way!
I'm sorry about all of the trouble & having to get her spayed, that has to be stressful.
When will she be done with her meds on this round? Did the swelling get worse or crop
up while she was on antibiotics? If so, that tends to make gout worse because they are so
hard on the kidneys.
While some people have used the Reptiglo 10 tube bulb successfully, there have been a good
number of people that had their dragons develop metabolic bone disease & other issues while
under this light. It's hard to tell from the picture, but is the tube mounted on top of or beneath
of the screen top? At any rate, I would upgrade the UVB source to either the Reptisun 10 or the
Arcadia D3 14% right now, for a better UVB exposure.
These lights are relatively weak UVB sources so that is likely some of the problems with the
swelling, due to poor absorption of calcium. How often do you supplement the calcium?
What are the temperatures in her tank & how do you measure them?
Is there sand in the tank, or is that a sand mat?
I'm glad you are getting the blood test done because I think it will reveal gout. The swelling
in the toes like that especially is a classic sign of gout. For now as a precaution, I would start
her on black cherry juice extract or powder either one. How many insects do you feed her, on
a weekly basis, estimated?
When is the vet appointment for the blood test?

Tracie

Honey goes bck 10/27 for the follow up and for her blood work. She was getting her calcium and vitamin every single day. Now she's getting it every other day or every couple days. I have no idea what is going on with her and I don't want it be hypervitaminosis. She gets her protein (crickets, hornworms, black soldier flies, etc) once a week. Before she had surgery...I was told to do up her protein intake so she could fatten up before the surgery. So I did that. Because of the way the tank is made....her UVB light is sitting on top of the screen. My husband is going to be making me a new one tank for her. She has been on the crushed walnut shell for about a year. Like I said previously...she does NOT eat in her tank. I'm overly paranoid about her getting impacted. I have been looking for reptile carpet or something for 150 gallon, but no luck. I don't want to piece together reptile carpet as that looks tacky. I also called the vet who did her surgery to see what kind of probiotic I should get for her as well. She will be done with the Meloxicam in a few days. Will be done with the Chloramphenicol in 6 days. The swelling seemed to got a bit better in areas and have showed more swelling in others. I am an emotional wreck. Trying to do everything I can for her so she lives a long life.

Hi there, oh my I really feel for your poor girl ! That is a big beautiful tank + I'm sure you want the best for her. Getting the better uvb bulbs that Drache613 recommended is a MUST ! The Reptiglo is not very effective through screen, if it had been mounted under the screen and she could get within *' of it that would have worked for a while. But for now, order the Arcadia D3 12% or 14% from lightyourreptiles.

Her condition is likely caused by all the meds. she's been on. Keep[ up the oral hydration, do so more than once a day if you can. I hope the spay actually WAS necessary, it's very common for dragons to lay multiple clutches year after year, most of my girls did. Anyway, while she's sick, take out the hammocks, she can not climb in her condition. I'm sure that in that large tank she needs 2 heat bulbs, there's no way to get heat all through the tank with just one. Find a way to lower the uvb bulb down so it shines close to her, about 8" above her. If you can't do that, set her up in a plastic tub like this :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/29953/full

You can use a rolled up towel for her to perch on, and plain paper towels on the bottom. And even though you haven't seen her eat any of the crushed walnut, it must go [ you've already seen it in her poo ] It's a terrible impaction risk and the pieces are not digestible. Throw it ot + replace with non adhesive shelf liner fro a Dollar store , Walmart, Home Depot. Very easy to use + clean.

Best wishes to your poor girl, please update whenever you can and change her tank+ get the new bulbs ASAP. It really is very important in her recovery.

#1) GET RID OF THE CRUSHED WALNUT SHELLS IMMEDIATELY!!! RIGHT NOW, DUMP IT OUT! IT HAS CAUSED MORE BEARDED DRAGON DEATHS THAN ANYTHING ELSE I'VE SEEN!

It doesn't matter at all whether she eats in her tank or not, they lick everything all the time, you cannot be watching her constantly, and that is exactly what is in her stool! Crushed walnut shells have razor sharp edges that when swallowed, even if it's only a piece or two, can cause everything from internal bleeding to a bowel obstruction. It is also a horrible harbor and breeding ground for bacteria, fungi, and parasites, and with an incision she should have never had a loose substrate. Calcium sand is almost as lethal and horrible, but crushed walnut shells is definitely the worst. PLEASE, DUMP IT OUT, COMPLETELY DISINFECT THE ENTIRE ENCLOSURE, AND THEN PUT DOWN CLEAN, DRY PAPERTOWELS THAT YOU CAN THROW AWAY AS THEY GET SOILED! YOU CAN WORRY ABOUT A PERMANENT SOLID SUBSTRATE LATER, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE! If it seems like I'm being dramatic about this, I AM! I'm just tired of beardies dying from crushed walnut shells and calcium sand in their tanks, it's so preventable and it should not happen, neither should be sold.

#2.) The Reptiglo 10.0 is a weak UVB tube to begin with, and it seems to be very hit and miss on whether dragons that are under one get sick or not, and there are a host of conditions that they seem to get, everything from MBD (understandable) to eye damage. Since it's been on top of a mesh lid that is blocking about 40% of the already too weak UVB light, she has essentially had zero UVB light while underneath it...AND I BELIEVE THEY ARE T8 TUBES, I DON'T THINK THERE IS A T5 REPTIGLO TUBE, SO IF THAT'S THE CASE AND YOU BOUGHT IT IN FEBRUARY, IT STOPPED EMITTING ANY UVB LIGHT AT 6 MONTHS OLD ANYWAY! THAT WOULD BE AUGUST THAT IT STOPPED EMITTING ANY UVB...

Since you have to buy her a new UVB tube anyway, since your Reptiglo 10.0 tube stopped emitting any UVB light after 6 months, you need to get a high-quality, High-Output UVB tube, the absolute best are either the Arcadia 14% T5 or the Reptisun 10.0 T5 High-Output. Both of these tubes are strong enough that they can sit on top of the mesh lid, where a T8 tube like a Reptiglo is not strong enough. And as long as her Main Basking Spot is within 11" of one of these two T5HO tubes, she'll get an adequate amount of UVB light that is also strong enough for her. She needs this badly right now! And you're not in danger of hypervitaminosis, since she hasn't been getting any UVB light for quite a while, she hasn't been able to absorb much Calcium anyway. Poor girl has had a tough time, hopefully making these husbandry tweaks and getting blood work done will get her back on track.

I totally agree with Tracie, she needs to have blood work done ASAP, as she almost certainly has Gout, and since reptile vets live to over-medicate this is what happens, especially when combined with a lack of UVB light. I would find either some Tart Cherry or Black Cherry Juice or extract and start her on that, as Tracie has already mentioned, this will help a bit, and if you can order some Silkworms or at least a bottle of Serapeptase to give her daily, this will really help the swelling and pain associated with the Gout. Silkworms contain a lot of natural Serapeptase in the lining of their intestines, so they are the best form for getting it. Then just get the blood work done and go from there, but I would make the husbandry changes to her enclosure ASAP, then treat this as suspected gout.

She was on newspaper while she was healing from her surgery. She wasn't on the loose substrate at ALL during her healing time and when she had the open incision. Yes the spay WAS necessary. She had polyps in her abdomen from some of the eggs rupturing. The vet who did her surgery said her surgery was the most complicated surgery she had EVER done and she has been doing this for 20+ years. I knw Honey hasn't touched the walnut shell at all! She just got the newspaper completely removed yesterday. So I knw it's NOT the walnut shell in her stool. The vet also confirmed that as well when they did a stool sample today. The walnut shell is being removed regardless. My mom and dad got me a bolt of polyester type material. It looks JUST like the reptile carpet. I have to cut it down to size to fit her tank which is no big deal. Where can I get these other UVB lights from any ways? How much are they? I have A LOT I will be doing when I get paid Friday. I have been taking care of her on my own. So it will take time for me to get everything I need, but she will get it. Does the juice need to be 100% juice? Where can I find the extract?

I would get this UVB light if you can. http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/22-t-5-ho-fixture-high-output-with-arcadia-d3-12-ho-bulb/

Honey0526":ozueh8ky said:

She was on newspaper while she was healing from her surgery. She wasn't on the loose substrate at ALL during her healing time and when she had the open incision. Yes the spay WAS necessary. She had polyps in her abdomen from some of the eggs rupturing. The vet who did her surgery said her surgery was the most complicated surgery she had EVER done and she has been doing this for 20+ years. I knw Honey hasn't touched the walnut shell at all! She just got the newspaper completely removed yesterday. So I knw it's NOT the walnut shell in her stool. The vet also confirmed that as well when they did a stool sample today. The walnut shell is being removed regardless. My mom and dad got me a bolt of polyester type material. It looks JUST like the reptile carpet. I have to cut it down to size to fit her tank which is no big deal. Where can I get these other UVB lights from any ways? How much are they? I have A LOT I will be doing when I get paid Friday. I have been taking care of her on my own. So it will take time for me to get everything I need, but she will get it. Does the juice need to be 100% juice? Where can I find the extract?

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Just to clarify, I wasn't at all saying that getting her spayed wasn't necessary, I'm sure that it was, and actually I wish that more people would get their dragons spayed, because there are quite a few that suffer from serious problems as soon as they develop follicles. What I was referring to is that recently there have been a good number of bearded dragons that have suffered for quite a while and then died because their vets prescribed unnecessary, harsh medications, usually more than one or two rounds, and most without even doing diagnostic tests before prescribing them. That's all I was referring to.

And as far as the crushed walnut shell substrate, there is nothing good about it at all, it needs to be taken off the market along with any type of calcium sand or "Reptisand", and I'm very glad you removed it. Whether she was on it while she was going through the surgery or not isn't the point, perfectly healthy dragons are dying suddenly all the time from ingesting a few pieces of that stuff, and it's heartbreaking every time this happens because it's so unnecessary. And the poor owners typically only buy the stuff and put it in their dragon's tanks because a pet shop employee recommends it to them, or an "exotics" vet who has no idea what they are talking about tells them it's perfectly okay to use, then a month later their beardie is dead...I'm not exaggerating, you can search it for yourself, either here on this forum or simply on Google, I encourage you to do so, then spread the word to anyone you know that owns a bearded dragon or any other reptile and uses it, because it is dangerous and needs to stop being sold, right along with the calcium sands that turns into cement when it gets wet. My goal was not to offend you or make you defensive about using crushed walnut shell, my goal was to let you know how dangerous crushed walnut shells are as a reptile substrate and get you to remove it, because I don't want your dragon to be made sick or worse by it, as many, many, many other dragons already have. That's it. And I'm glad you removed it, because it's just not worth it.

And the least expensive prices I've seen on both the Arcadia 12% and 14% T5 UVB tubes and the Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tubes is on Amazon.com, and if you need to purchase a matching length tube fixture that is rated for a T5 tube at the correct wattage, once you choose the tube and retailer you want to buy it from they will offer package deals that are priced extremely well that include the tube and a matching fixture that will work with that specific tube. Plus you usually get free shipping that is very quick. Just make sure that the tube fixture you buy has a built-in metal reflector behind where the tube sits, this is very important, it reflects the UVB light throughout the enclosure and not just directly below the tube.

So I have the Black Cherry juice. How much should I give her and how often?? Should I mix it with water, or is it fine the way it is?? The vet has no clue about using black cherry anything, and have never even heard of using it for gout. I will let u all knw tomorrow or once I get the results what the blood work says. Is there anything else I need to do?? I want to help her get better. Hey Ellen...my reply about Honey being spayed and what not was for AHBD. Srry about the confusion. I wish more ppl would get their bearded dragons spayed as well. I have found a reptisun 10.0 T5H0 Hood and Lamp on Amazon. That will be ordered tomorrow. I greatly appreciate all ur guys help! I don't knw what I would do without u guys.

So EVERYTHING in Honey's blood looked fine. The only thing that looked slightly elevated was her calcium lvls, but was nothing to really worry about. We are at another dead end.

I know that comment was for my inquiry about the spay, I was only concerned because I've read of so many unnecessary procedures done that it is really unbelievable.

Some of the many drugs she's on , such as Tramadol, can cause edema /swelling in humans....legs, feet, arms, etc. This can be the case whether taken orally but also other drugs that are injected can cause swelling at the injection site. Just wonder if that's what's happened to your poor girl.

The medication has nothing to do with the swelling. The swelling happened in September. She had her surgery August 3rd and was on Baytril and Meloxicam for 2 weeks. She wasn't put on Tramadol until 2 weeks ago. She's completely finished with the Tramadol, and actually that did help her a bit. I also have been doing physical therapy with her as well while she's in her bath. She is actually moving more. She is on emeraid as well now instead of the oxbow cc. Haven't had an issue since she has been off of the oxbow cc with sand type substance in her fecal either. When the doctor did her stool sample....she figured it was from the cc since the "sand" dissolved when doing the fecal float instead of rising to the surface like sand or walnut shell would. Slow road to recovery, but I think she will be ok. Finally have a team to work with me and to help Honey. Honey is my TOP priority, and if a doctor or who ever doesn't want to help her....then I will keep looking for one who will.

Just trying to help, not hurt your feelings. It's a fact that lots of meds. can have those types of side effects, just watch any commercial on T.V. as they rattle off all possible side effects, but no one really knows what caused her swelling as of now but you can't rule out the meds.

But the important thing is that she seems to be getting better and I hope that will be the case.

Actually I can out rule the meds. The ultra sound showed that she has an embolism and that is what's causing the inflammation. She will be going bck in for surgery soon. When we did the blood work....her calcium lvls were a little high. Will knw more on if there is a left over follicle from her spay as well when we do the surgery.

Aw, poor girl that's to bad. At least you know what it is now, hopefully she'll be O.K through another surgery + this will get her back to health.