I am completely at a loss and confused.

Hello,

I've come to this forum once before because my bearded dragon, Echo, had an infestation of coccidia and pinworms. That was about a year or so now. She was given a clear bill of health-- but her feces has not changed in consistency for that entire time, albeit very briefly during treatment. When she was being treated, it was fairly normal but sometimes it's hard to tell because she usually goes in her bath. (She usually gets a bath every two or three days.)

I will admit that when I bought her from the pet store (this was two years ago now, so I'm fairly versed in BD husbandry now) I was out of my depth and not familiar with all the ins and outs of bearded dragon care. Since then, I have made a lot of effort in learning everything I can. Here's a detailed list of my care practices:

Echo is in a 40 gal. breeder tank. I wanted to upgrade her to something larger, but I don't really have the space or money at this time. She is not a very large dragon, but I don't have exact measurements on hand at the moment because I'm not home. She is on tiled substrate that I manually cut, has a nice desert backdrop, and a hammock that she absolutely adores.

I have a laser thermometer that I use to monitor her temps. Her basking spot is pretty close to the heat lamp. (She can get within 3-4 inches from it. Maybe closer.) I have considered that this might be the problem, so I may change the arrangement of her tank. I don't really want to stress her out, but I'm at a loss at this point. Her basking temp is usually at 95 degrees.

I will say that, in the past, she would never use her basking spot unless her hammock was underneath it. Wherever the hammock is moved, she goes. 90% of her time is spent there. She also tends to become erratic in her tank, running back and forth and glass surfing. This happens a few times a week, and I usually attribute it to her being too hot or maybe that her enclosure is too small for her. I'm not sure.

Her UVB light is coming up to its replacement date soon. (January.) It is mounted inside her enclosure so that she can better soak up the rays. She can get quite close to this as well. On average, I feed her salad every day -- sometimes I skip a day with no food at all -- and she is fed four dozen crickets a week with her multivitamin. Her calcium powder is put on her salad every other day.

My gut tells me that her diet is the problem. When she was younger, she only really ate kale and crickets. I was misinformed about bearded dragon diet and nutrition then. For about a year she has been on a staple of collard greens rotated between endive and escarole, sometimes kale, sometimes dandelion greens. That's a lot of water intake, and that's why I thought her poops were so rancid! I would also like to note that I had the local vet test her fecal just a few months ago. (Four months ago, to be exact.) She came up clean!

But the problem is, is her poops are absolutely horrible. They are always filled with excess water, always mushy, never solid or formed. Her urate always looks almost completely normal, but that's saturated as well. The smell is bad, it can leave an odor in my room, not a huge pungent odor, but enough to be able to tell she's gone when you walked in the room. She is set behind a closed door, too, so the smell does get through that.

On top of all of this, I thought that I wasn't offering her enough variety in her foods. Escarole, endive, kale, collard greens... all these are just greens, no vegetables. So I thought I'd add some different things into the mix. I fed her carrots on top of her salad twice this week and gave her a lot of acorn squash, too. All of this on a bed of endive. I thought that maybe it would help her diarrhea. Instead, it just made it worse. Now it's uniformly undigested. I can make out the carrot and squash. When I came home, I thought she had thrown up until I saw the urate. It was literally just a pile of mush.

Everytime her poops look strange, I get worried... and most are way too mushy. Usually I can't tell because, like I said, she goes in her bath and it's formed well *in* water. But other than that, nope. And sometimes it's so bad that it's smeared down her tail and she tracks it all through the tank. At that point, I have to give her a bit more of a bath and that stresses her out even worse.

I do happen to feed her too much, I think. I bought a water dish from the pet store and I use that as her feeding dish. How much, in proportion, should an adult bearded dragon get? Is there anyway someone can give me an idea of HOW much should be offered?

In addition, she does not like me very much. She is very jumpy, very skittish, even after two years. She used to bite a lot, but she doesn't anymore. She's fine when I pick her up, mostly, but she's always squirming and trying to run around. Eventually she calms down, though. I think it's just an initial reaction when I pick her up.

In any case, I am so completely at a loss now. I don't know what's wrong, I can't seem to find the source of the problem, no matter what I do it either makes it worse or has no effect whatsoever.

Okay, we can certainly help you out here, as there are a few things that need to change, but not many. You're doing a very good job at taking care of her, and actually most everything you describe sounds pretty normal. First off, I'll ask you to post a current photo of her, and of her entire enclosure and lighting. You answered a lot of questions about her husbandry already, thank you for that, but could you please indication what UVB light you are using, brand and strength/wattage, and type, meaning is it a long tube, a compact bulb, a coil bulb, or a Mercury Vapor Bulb? You said you have it mounted inside the tank, so I'm assuming that means it is underneath any type of lid you have, probably a mesh lid on a 40 gallon breeder tank, so I'm assuming it is most likely a long tube UVB and that it is mounted underneath the lid, and has no clear, plastic safety cover on the fixture that covers the UVB tube (some long tube fixtures do come with a plastic cover over where the tubes go, this blocks 100% of all UVB light). So if it is a long tube UVB that is mounted under the mesh lid, this is all very good. Just let us know which brand and strength it is, and how many inches is it from her Main Basking Spot? Do you have the UVB tube right alongside the basking light, both being over the Hot Side of the tank and directly over the Main Basking Spot?

I think one of the main issues is that her Basking Spot Surface Temperature is a bit too cool if it is measuring at only 95 degrees with a temperature gun, which should be very accurate. This can definitely account for you seeing undigested food in her stools, as they need to bask after eating in a high enough Basking Spot Surface Temperature that will allow complete digestion of food, which should be around 100 degrees or so for a 2 year old adult bearded dragon. I usually say between 100-103 degrees for an adult. So I would definitely make sure you have your UVB tube and your bright white basking light set up correctly, right alongside each other and both directly over her Main Basking Spot, and then I would lower JUST THE BASKING LIGHT in order to bump her Main Basking Spot Surface Temperature up to between 100 and 103 degrees. That would be step one. This should help a lot in proper digestion of her food.

Also, I forgot to ask above, I'm assuming you are using only a bright white basking bulb over the Hot Side/Main Basking Spot and not any colored bulbs like blue, red, yellow, green, etc. Your other temperatures sound good I believe, Hot Side Ambient should be between 88-93 degrees, and Cool Side Ambient between 75-80 degrees maximum, important so she always has a place considerably cooler than the Hot Side Ambient Temperature to go cool down whenever she wants to. Just so you can see, her Hot Side Ambient Temperature should be between 88-93 degrees, but right now you have her Basking Spot Surface Temperature at only 95 degrees, basically what her Hot Side Air Temp should be, so you can see the problem. After you bump her Basking Spot Surface Temp up to between 100-103 degrees you should see her spending more time on the basking spot, and you should see her darkening herself in order to absorb more heat and light. This should eliminate any undigested food in her stools.

At 2 years old she should be eating 80-90% healthy greens and veggies EVERY SINGLE DAY, PLEASE DO NOT SKIP DAYS AND ONLY GIVE HER GREENS EVERY OTHER DAY, SHE SHOULD BE GETTING A FRESH SALAD OF APPROPRIATE, HEALTHY GREENS EVERY SINGLE DAY, AND THEN LIVE INSECTS 2-3 TIMES A WEEK, BUT NOT IN PLACE OF A FRESH SALAD ON THOSE DAYS, BUT RATHER ON LIVE BUG DAYS SHE SHOULD STILL GET HER FRESH SALAD. THIS IS A MUST! So please stop skipping days and offer her a fresh salad of appropriate greens every single day, and then ADDITIONAL live insects 2-3 days out of the week. Appropriate greens include Collard Greens, Mustard Greens, Turnip Greens, Dandelion Greens, Escarole, Endive, Bok Choy and Pak Choy, Swiss Chard, and Arugula...PLEASE TRY TO AVOID FEEDING HER ANY TYPE OF KALE OR SPINACH!!! All types of Kale and Spinach contain an extremely high amount of Oxalates, which bind to any and all available free calcium she has eaten, making no calcium available for her to process or absorb. So feeding Kale and Spinach is very counterproductive and some people who have fed ONLY kale and no other greens have actually caused MBD in their dragons. That's a very extreme case, and giving her a little Kale or Spinach once or twice a week as a treat (if she really likes it) is not going to do any damage, but neither Kale or Spinach should ever be one of her staple greens.

If you want to add a variety of fresh, healthy veggies to her greens that's great, any type of squash is good, such as Butternut, Acorn, Spaghetti, Yellow, Green, etc. Red, Green, Yellow, and Orange Bell Peppers are good and they usually really like them, along with fresh Green Beans, Pea Pods, and occasionally some Carrot or Broccoli. Again, she should be getting a fresh salad of any of the healthy, appropriate greens and some fresh veggies EVERY SINGLE DAY, and live bugs in addition to her fresh salad 2-3 days a week.

She is definitely going to have a lot more hydration going in now than she did when she was eating 85-90% live protein, that's just the nature of her now eating mainly fresh greens and veggies (and even occasional fresh fruit as a treat). Fresh greens and veggies have a high water content, so more water in equals more water out, and this is completely normal, and it's a good thing that she is very well hydrated, as indicated by the excess clear fluid in her bowel movements. This is something that naturally occurs when they switch their diets over to mostly fresh greens and veggies as adults, and this is not a problem at all. ONLY IF THE FECAL MATTER ITSELF IS COMING OUT IN A LIQUID FORM IS IT CONSIDERED AN ISSUE. As I already stated, any UNDIGESTED food that you're seeing in her bowel movements can be attributed to a Basking Spot Surface Temperature that is at least 5 degrees too low, and that should be easily corrected and remedied once you bump her temperatures up. However, any excess clear fluid you see coming out along with her bowel movements is completely normal for her adult diet, and is not anything to worry about. You stated she had a follow-up fecal test done after finishing whatever medication she took for the parasites, and this follow-up fecal test came back negative, so that's excellent...how long ago did she have that follow-up fecal test? If you are truly worried you can always have another fecal test done, but I don't think it's at all necessary, as I said, MORE FLUIDS IN EQUALS MORE FLUIDS OUT. So while the undigested food in her fecal matter is not normal (and we have addressed the cause of this), the excess liquid in her bowel movements is completely normal for her appropriate, adult bearded dragon diet.

By the way, I forgot to mention something that you were concerned about...you mentioned that you are concerned about the distance her basking spot is from her basking light, and once you post photos of her enclosure and lighting I'll be able to see exactly what you're talking about. But in general, the distance between the bright white basking bulb and her main basking spot or any other part of her enclosure really is a non-issue except for the effect it has on her Basking Spot Surface Area or her Ambient Temperatures on the Hot and Cool Sides. That's the only thing that the distance of the basking bulb away from the enclosure as a whole has an impact on (Assuming you're not using a Coil basking bulb that could cause eye damage at close ranges). Obviously the distance between your UVB tube and the Main Basking Spot is extremely important, as her Main Basking Spot must be within a close enough distance from the UVB tube to enable your dragon the ability to absorb enough UVB and UVA light, and this distance is based on which UVB tube you have (In general, a 10.0 T8 UVB tube must be within at least 6-8" of the Main Basking Spot and totally unobstructed by anything, such as a mesh lid, while a 10.0 T5 UVB tube must be within 11" of the Main Basking Spot, and it is generally accepted that very strong T5 UVB tubes can actually sit on top of a mesh lid and still penetrate enough UVB light through to the Basking Spot, such as the Arcadia 12% UVB tube, the Arcadia 14% UVB tube, and the Reptisun 10.0 T5 High-Output UVB tube...though myself as well as many others still mount our Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tubes under the mesh lids if our enclosures have them, as long as the enclosure is high enough to comfortably allow the Main Basking Spot to be within 11" of the UVB tube mounted under the mesh lid).

So in general, if your temperatures inside the enclosure are within the correct ranges, then the distance between the basking light and the Basking Spot or any other parts of the enclosure doesn't really matter, unless it is EXTREMELY CLOSE TO YOUR BEARDIE, LIKE WITHIN 2-3", YOU DON'T WANT YOUR BEARDIE TO BURN HERSELF, NOR DO YOU WANT HER EYES TO BE DAMAGED.

Thank you so much for the detailed response.

I will address as many points as I can remember from your post. First off, there is no plastic separating the UVB at all and it is a Reptisun 10.0 fluorescent bulb. I cannot provide a picture right now, but I will when I get home. Her last fecal test was about four months ago and came out clear.

I want to note something that I just realized: her basking site IS her hammock. Not sure how I could've been this stupid... but is it possible that because it isn't a rock, and something that absorbs heat, that she simply isn't getting enough heat on her stomach? I understand that the 95 degrees is also an issue, one I intend on remedying. And to make note of what I use: it's one of those very small halogen bulbs.

I will no longer skip a day of feeding, period. She will get a full course of food every single day. I care a great deal about my pets and am very proud of my husbandry practices, so I want to get everything 100% right. That is what I set out as my goal every single time I bring a pet home.

As for the kale, that was a thing of the past. I stopped doing that a year and a half ago. She doesn't get any other than in very, very small amounts on rare occasions.

That's fine, I'll check out the photos as soon as you post them later...

As far as the hammock being the basking spot, no, it makes absolutely no difference because bearded dragons get ALL of their bright white basking light and heat from above, all of it. This is the reason that we don't recommend using a heat rock for beardies, they end up burning their bellies because they aren't aware of how hot their bellies are getting. Now is a mesh hammock an ideal basking spot for a beardie: well, I've seen many people use them as ONE of the basking spots, like the basking spot closest to the UVB and basking light, and then they will have a basking branch or rock that is lower...the hammock isn't going to absorb any heat, that's correct, and honestly I do believe that the hammock being her main basking spot may be the reason you're getting only a 95 degree SURFACE TEMP...this is your main issue here without a doubt, 90% of the time when you are seeing undigested food in a bearded dragon's stools it is due to a basking spot surface temperature that is too cold. So my best advice to you, besides the advice I've already given you about raising her Main Basking Spot Temperature up to between 100-103, which will definitely solve your/her problem, is that if I were you I would find a solid basking platform, either a piece of wood, a rock, or a dedicated piece of decor at a pet shop that is meant to be a basking spot, that will put her within the correct distance from her UVB light. She can still have the hammock and sometimes they spend most of the time on their hammocks, so you have to also make sure that the hammock is #1) Close enough to her UVB light, and #2) allows her to bask in a temperature between 100-103...

That being said, we may have another piece of the puzzle...you said earlier that your UVB light is close to needing replaced at 6 months old, and now you said it's a Reptisun 10.0 UVB bulb...let me guess, it's a compact bulb and not a long Reptisun 10.0 tube?

Ok, so I'm home now. I moved her hammock over to the cooler side of her tank. Before that, it was directly underneath that basking bulb. I honestly think it was too close, but maybe I was wrong. Here's what confuses me: now she's basking on her rock with her mouth open, which I know that's how they cool themselves down. I tested the temperature again with the digital thermometer and it's saying the temp is EVEN lower than normal, clocking around 92/93 degrees. I could get another basking rock, maybe, one that's taller and allows her to reach the bulb better but I also think I should replace her bulb too... do you have any recommendations for heat bulbs? What wattage am I looking for? Here's a picture of the setup as promised:

https://imgur.com/a/ANb3f

Here's a picture of her, herself... up close. I just took this of her and she seems content. Other than this issue, she seems perfectly healthy to me. Bright eyes, always alert, has a fantastic appetite. She eats all her food almost every day.

https://imgur.com/a/oafnn

EDIT: Just saw your post about the UVB. I used a compact reptisun 10.0 once and was too worried about it affecting her eyes/stunting her growth, etc. So I replaced it with the tube. Going to check my amazon to double check the age of that UVB, just to be sure.

EDIT: The UVB is actually four months older than its replacement date, so that might have something to do with it. I ordered a replacement ASAP. It'll be here this week.

Ok, so I tested something else. I put something underneath that basking rock to see what the surface temperature was at a height closer to the basking light. It read at 100 - 102 degrees. Before this, she was even slightly higher than that. Could it be that she was too hot maybe? Or could it mean that the UVB light was too old? I'm really not sure, but I will say that I intend to keep her basking spot a rock instead of a hammock. Hoping to maybe see some sort of difference with the new UVB and more heat on her belly.

When you get a chance can you post a pic of her poo ? Sometimes a person thinks it's bad when it's really in the acceptable range. From her picture + your description of her activity + good appetite she sounds quite healthy.

Hello,

That's great you got a new light on the way then, hopefully that will help out a lot.
How is he doing today?
The basking temperatures are recommend between 95-110, with a cooler end of around 78-82
range. You will need to use either a digital probe or a temp gun to accurately measure the
temps. Adults tend to like the basking temps a little lower, 105 or under.
She looks like she's in good physical condition, nice weight & appears very alert in the pictures.
I noticed that the tube UVB light is mounted on the back side of the tank. It will need to be
moved to where it shines directly overhead of her. When it's mounted like that, the UVB tends
to refract outward & away from your dragon instead of downward. Try that & see if she likes
it better. Plus, there wont be near as much glare in her eyes, either.

Tracie

Today she had a salad of carrots, squash, and endive. Right now she's hanging out on her hammock. No poop... but I dread to see what it'll be. The undigested poop only started when I began feeding her more vegetables instead a mixture of greens. Before she just had collard greens, endive, escarole, and dandelion greens. Could the introduction of new food shock her system? And how would I mount the tube light so it shines directly above her?

Hello,

That's great she ate her greens & veggies today.
Sometimes introducing new foods can cause changes in their stool consistencies. How many
new foods did you introduce at the same time?
You can use the 3M command hooks, or industrial strength velcro, or even the large strong zip
ties to secure a light fixture underneath of the mesh screen. She would get much better UVB
exposure.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

She pooped in her bath today and it wasn't formed at all. It was a lot of diarrhea, actually. I will say she is no longer passing undigested squash, though... but there are bits of carrots. She was glass surfing a bit today before I went to work-- she does that sometimes and I usually take her out and let her run around, thinking that she's bored and trying to burn some energy, but I don't know. It happens fairly frequently. She hates being picked up and will squirm a lot. I know that the ambient air temperature reaches 100-107 degrees because I raised her basking spot and that was the surface temp on her rock. She is gaping at her basking spot, too, so that tells me temperature is not an issue-- but what else could it be? The only thing I can think of is the UVB.

I went to the store and bought her a salad of mustard greens, turnip greens, and acorn squash. Should I be adding more vegetables to her salads? I read a mixture of 3-4 different food items with weekly rotation. Every week I try to add something different, but I'm not sure if this is just shocking her system or what.

It's really difficult to tell the consistency when it's in the water. But if she likes the greens best, I'd offer that mostly, maybe a bit of green bean + squash once a week.

I agree, it is difficult, but oftentimes it is shaped even while in the water. I've come to recognize the difference because most times I see her go. It was definitely a very, err, gross cloud.