When to start force feeding?

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Hi guys,

My little lizard is not well :(

You can see my last post for my full set up details viewtopic.php?f=6&t=236401

So went to the herp vet on Thursday and all good on the physical exam and checking my husbandry. Left a fecal sample for testing. Results back today say nothing wrong with parasite levels.

So the question now is do we pursue a diagnosis by doing blood tests and a conscious X-ray next (costing £150) or do we go into critical care and tube feeding to see if she improves?

So far this week she has less energy and is eating even less - maybe an insect a day. Since Wednesday we've been on sick dragon schedule with letting her sleep, hand feeding (attempted) and two baths a day - as prescribed by our vet.

So I'd like to know what you think? How long of not eating before I force feed? And do I go for force feeding before we test more or should I just get the test done asap.

I'm trying not to worry but she's just a sleepy flop today so it's hard not to. Trust our vet but it's my choice what path follow now.

Thank Beardie Friends xxx
 

Savora

Hatchling Member
If you get Fluker's ReptaBoost or Oxbow Critical Care, you can try syringe-feeding her these. I would get some just to keep on hand, especially if your dragon is sickly. ReptaBoost is sold at my local PetCo, and if I'm not mistaken most exotic vets should carry Critical Care. Maybe try putting some sugarless apple juice (or other non-citrus juice) in it too, to see if she'll lick it off her snout.
I'm really sorry about your poor little one. :( Hopefully she gets better soon. Force-feeding doesn't have to be a stressful event if she feels like cooperating and your syringe prodding is gentle.
 

BadgerGirl

Member
Original Poster
Savora":agb7z8ka said:
If you get Fluker's ReptaBoost or Oxbow Critical Care, you can try syringe-feeding her these. I would get some just to keep on hand, especially if your dragon is sickly. ReptaBoost is sold at my local PetCo, and if I'm not mistaken most exotic vets should carry Critical Care. Maybe try putting some sugarless apple juice (or other non-citrus juice) in it too, to see if she'll lick it off her snout.
I'm really sorry about your poor little one. :( Hopefully she gets better soon. Force-feeding doesn't have to be a stressful event if she feels like cooperating and your syringe prodding is gentle.

Thanks! I'm in the UK so no Petco... I'll see what they have at the pet store here and try with a syringe this weekend and if there's no improvement by Monday we will have to go to the vet to see about tube feeding.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Definitely Xrays ASAP , and if she's strong enough bloods and cultures too.

I'd be trying syringe feeding , this will help you : viewtopic.php?f=45&t=232687

the feeding / crop needles are specialized kit so you need to either order a suitable size straight crop needle or ask the vet to sell you one or provide one . I'd get a 12Gauge (has a larger bore so the critical care slurry can be given more easily, 2.5mm bore cf 2mm for the 14Gauge).

Note the stomache volume of a juvenile lizard is 1 - 4ml / 100g bodyweight, I'd err on the concervative side and go with 2ml / 100g bodyweight and simply give move forced feedings per day, talk to the vet about this , they or their nurse will show you how to do it.

Sooner you get some nutrition into him the better , also very important to keep her warm 24/7 while she's so sick. This is not brumation, who ever suggested that was throwing a red-herring and clutching at straws.

I hope he pulls through and the vet can pull him back from the brink .... I know you are terribly worried about your spikey baby .
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
BadgerGirl":2pqkn9yy said:
Savora":2pqkn9yy said:
If you get Fluker's ReptaBoost or Oxbow Critical Care, you can try syringe-feeding her these. I would get some just to keep on hand, especially if your dragon is sickly. ReptaBoost is sold at my local PetCo, and if I'm not mistaken most exotic vets should carry Critical Care. Maybe try putting some sugarless apple juice (or other non-citrus juice) in it too, to see if she'll lick it off her snout.
I'm really sorry about your poor little one. :( Hopefully she gets better soon. Force-feeding doesn't have to be a stressful event if she feels like cooperating and your syringe prodding is gentle.

Thanks! I'm in the UK so no Petco... I'll see what they have at the pet store here and try with a syringe this weekend and if there's no improvement by Monday we will have to go to the vet to see about tube feeding.

Here's a place in the UK who has crop needles in stock :
https://birdpro.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=268 , this link will hopefully save some time , if you order your crop needle and request delivery by express post you might have it by this time tomorrow.
Some company also carry VetaFarm HerpaBoost and CrittaCare (?), both are excellent.
https://birdpro.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=61_78&product_id=374

If you use a standard disposeable plastic syringe , the advise I received from VetaFarm is use a 2.5-3mm drill to make the bore larger to assist slurry flow.
 

BadgerGirl

Member
Original Poster
Thank you so much kingofnobbys!

We are booked for the vet next tuesday - soonest we can get - and they will teach me to feed with a crop needle and provide the food. We have also asked for xray and bloods.

I've looked at ordering online but wont get it before we get to the vet. Failing me having critical care food and crop needle what can I do?

I need to MacGyver a way to feed her.. Whats my best option? Baby Food? Bug Smoothie? a small syringe?

She had a bath earlier and perked up a bit so I'm not as frantic and the vet has 24 hour emergency service if I need it.

Thanks for your help internet friends xxx
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
BadgerGirl":39e9aesj said:
Thank you so much kingofnobbys!

We are booked for the vet next tuesday - soonest we can get - and they will teach me to feed with a crop needle and provide the food. We have also asked for xray and bloods.

I've looked at ordering online but wont get it before we get to the vet. Failing me having critical care food and crop needle what can I do? >>> <<<<

if she's able to swallow -----> smoothies made from HerpaBoost or Critta Care or a sloppy mix of Repashi GrubPie would be very good given into the side of her mouth in small portions (to avoid her accidentially aspirating some , using something like :
http://store.independenceaustralia.com/personal-hygiene/syringes-needles/syringes/syringe-cath-tip-without-needle-60ml.html
or
https://www.fishpond.com.au/Beauty/Denshine-4pcs-Disposable-Dental-Irrigation-Syringe-With-Curved-Tip-12CC/0712324766806?utm_source=googleps&utm_medium=ps&utm_campaign=AU&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7J3bgr6n1gIVlgYqCh1C6QAVEAQYAyABEgLRLPD_BwE
just be careful she doesn't bite the end off it and swallow it - don't want to cause new issues.

if she's too weak to chew / swallow
option 1) call/drop buy at any vet that's handy and explain you need a crop needle , and ask if the vet is willing to sell one to you

option 2) call / visit the local RSPCA hospital and ask if you can buy a crop needle.

option 3) call an animal rescuers organization (UK version of WIRES) get in touch with a local rescuer , they often care for birds and small critters and will have this kind of kit

I'd be very wary of using a plastic tube (even a surgical type plastic tube on the end of a syringe) or trying to MacGyver something - you don't want anything with sharp edges or that's not designed for the job.

I need to MacGyver a way to feed her.. Whats my best option? Baby Food? Bug Smoothie? a small syringe?

She had a bath earlier and perked up a bit so I'm not as frantic and the vet has 24 hour emergency service if I need it.

Thanks for your help internet friends xxx
 

Taterbug

BD.org Addict
Glad you are going back to the vet. This is the only way you will be able to diagnose the issue, unfortunately diagnostics are costly and not always conclusive but otherwise your vet has zero information to work from. They should also be able to advice what diagnostics they want to run and why. Ask what they are looking for, why and what treatments would be available.

Personally I would also discuss with them if/when to force feed. Force feeding is stressful and it may be the wrong approach depending on what's going on. Have you tried puréed food just on her snout?
 

BadgerGirl

Member
Original Poster
Thanks for all the info and help guys.

Gandi is still fighting the good fight and she's doing ok considering.

We are bathing her twice a day and it helps perk her up lots. We get an hour we're she will take a bug or two by hand feeding and basks for a little bit then back to bed. I am amazed at what good treatment it is!

Because she is taking something by hand and still has some strength in her I've decided not to force feed yet. Also because I don't have the right supliment to feed her over the weekend.

Tuesday we go to the vet and she will get an X-ray and blood tests and my vet can advise me further on force feeding. I had a long talk with him on Friday and he has assured me she's not critical yet. But we do need to find out what is wrong asap.

I have to say it was quite a shock as a first time beardie owner that vet care would be so expensive so early on and I highly recommend all new owners start a saving jar for this possibility. I've had her 5 months and the vet will cost £250 next week not including any medication or equipment.I'd pay anything to help her get better, but i wish I was prepared for this.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
BadgerGirl":27ewgs6s said:
Thanks for all the info and help guys.

Gandi is still fighting the good fight and she's doing ok considering.

We are bathing her twice a day and it helps perk her up lots. We get an hour we're she will take a bug or two by hand feeding and basks for a little bit then back to bed. I am amazed at what good treatment it is!

Because she is taking something by hand and still has some strength in her I've decided not to force feed yet. Also because I don't have the right supliment to feed her over the weekend.

Tuesday we go to the vet and she will get an X-ray and blood tests and my vet can advise me further on force feeding. I had a long talk with him on Friday and he has assured me she's not critical yet. But we do need to find out what is wrong asap.

I have to say it was quite a shock as a first time beardie owner that vet care would be so expensive so early on and I highly recommend all new owners start a saving jar for this possibility. I've had her 5 months and the vet will cost £250 next week not including any medication or equipment.I'd pay anything to help her get better, but i wish I was prepared for this.

Vets are a licence to print money !!!!
.... I paid near $800 to have Puff's "abscess" um aneurism removed and he never came home, he died in recovery from a heart attack due to excessive blood loss in surgery.... this was a few weeks before Xmas so you can imagine our Xmas that year - not a happy one and we were broke.

I think in the UK there is Pet Insurance that covers reptiles .... worth looking into it. Unfortunately only cats, dogs and horses are covered by Pet Insurance here in Australia.
 

BadgerGirl

Member
Original Poster
kingofnobbys":1ovgeo6z said:
Vets are a licence to print money !!!!
.... I paid near $800 to have Puff's "abscess" um aneurism removed and he never came home, he died in recovery from a heart attack due to excessive blood loss in surgery.... this was a few weeks before Xmas so you can imagine our Xmas that year - not a happy one and we were broke.

I think in the UK there is Pet Insurance that covers reptiles .... worth looking into it. Unfortunately only cats, dogs and horses are covered by Pet Insurance here in Australia.

Oh I'm so sorry to hear about Puff, that is very sad. I have heard that reptiles don't take well to anaesthetic and can often pass in recovery.

I've had a look at exotic pet insurance and it's a juggle cause the monthly cost is pretty high and you may end up never using it! Had this issue with my pet rats as well. And at this point any existing condition in Gandi (like what wrong with her now) wouldn't be covered anyway. I'll be back to sticking a 20 in a jar at the end of each month rather than paying insurance, at least if I don't use it on vets I still have the money!
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
BadgerGirl":1acqngrz said:
kingofnobbys":1acqngrz said:
Vets are a licence to print money !!!!
.... I paid near $800 to have Puff's "abscess" um aneurism removed and he never came home, he died in recovery from a heart attack due to excessive blood loss in surgery.... this was a few weeks before Xmas so you can imagine our Xmas that year - not a happy one and we were broke.

I think in the UK there is Pet Insurance that covers reptiles .... worth looking into it. Unfortunately only cats, dogs and horses are covered by Pet Insurance here in Australia.

Oh I'm so sorry to hear about Puff, that is very sad. I have heard that reptiles don't take well to anaesthetic and can often pass in recovery.

I've had a look at exotic pet insurance and it's a juggle cause the monthly cost is pretty high and you may end up never using it! Had this issue with my pet rats as well. And at this point any existing condition in Gandi (like what wrong with her now) wouldn't be covered anyway. I'll be back to sticking a 20 in a jar at the end of each month rather than paying insurance, at least if I don't use it on vets I still have the money!

Pretty much my approach too .... I don't bother with PRIVATE insurance except for coverage for the car, the house and contents.
I try to keep about $1000 set aside for "emergencies" and if need be I'll raid my nest egg.
 
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