Bearded dragon's mouth is very swollen

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zoeodette

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My bearded dragon's mouth has two very swollen glands? I'm assuming. I'm not sure if it is mouth rot, or some other issue but I can't seem to get it to go away. I've tried changing his diet, changing his substrate from sand to tile, and I've also tried reptaid. Nothing seems to work though.. He is a 8 year old male, and has only had this problem for a few months. Through out the day he will open his mouth and cough. He is acting and eating normal other than the coughing and swollen mouth. Any help would be great, thank you.

(I live on a small island and our vet doesn't deal with reptiles)
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
He is very sick and needs an experienced reptile vet IMMEDIATELY! My guess is he's had an infection in his mouth/throat/upper respiratory system that has lingered for 3 months and spread. His eyes are horribly swollen too, so this infection has been allowed to go on for much too long. He needs to have cultures and blood work done to identify the bacteria or fungus or both causing this and to figure out what medications will be effective against it. If he's coughing now then it's most likely in his respiratory system and is urgent. There are no home remedies that are going g to help this, changing his diet, etc. isn't going to help, he needs to get to a vet tomorrow and will most likely need antibiotic injections and oral antibiotics and/or antifungal meds, depending on what the cultures show. 3 months is far too long to not get him medical help, I fear it might be too late, I certainly hope not, but it's urgent that he get to a reptile vet tomorrow at the latest, he's suffering greatly at this point, his entire face/head/jaw is so swollen, poor thing. Please get him to a vet IMMEDIATELY.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Aw, poor baby that's so hard to see. :( What started it, was there anything at all that you can think of ? What island are you on and if there are no reptile vets can you persuade whatever vet there is to have a look and prescribe some antibiotics ? Even if the vet does not regularly see reptiles they can take blood tests or a throat culture and they can usually consult with a reptile vet via internet or even to post the findings here for one of the mods. here [ Tracie , username Drache613 ] who may be able to advise on treatment.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I agree. If you are not able to see a reptile vet, you can take him to a regular vet so that they
can at least do a mouth swabbing to send off for a culture to test for bacteria, etc. That is the
best way to try & determine what type of treatment to go with. They can try to find another vet
to consult with, that's the least they can do.
He is very ill & has been for awhile. They hide illness very well until it gets to the point that it
starts to overtake their system.
Are you keeping him at optimal basking temperatures & providing a UVB Light source for him too?
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie
 

zoeodette

Member
Original Poster
Thank you everyone for your comments and advise. I will try to get him in to the vet for some cultures as soon as possible. To answer some of your questions, I live on an island in Alaska so reptile vets are not common here, if at all. His cage temperatures range from around 78 degrees on the cooler side to 102 on his basking side. He does have a UVB light on the cooler side. I have no idea what could have caused this, my best guess would be when I was in college for a year his keepers didn't change his sand well enough and a bacteria grew. I will keep updates on him if he gets better. Thank you everyone again for the advise.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Please get him to ANY VET immediately, please don't hesitate or wait at all, he's been suffering greatly for a long time, and he's going to die without immediate antibiotic intervention, by both injection and oral meds. The infection has already spread throughout his mouth, jaw, throat, upper respiratory system, possibly into his lungs, and next is going to be his eyes (blindness), his ears (deafness), and his brain (death), as it's too close and been present too long in his head. He'll most likely become septic and die first, which is a very painful, agonizing way to die. When a simple vet visit for a culture and sensitivity test, an antibiotic injection, and a round of oral antibiotics plus some nutritional supplement like Oxbow Critical Care paste is all he needs, a general vet can certainly do this. They can get a bacterial or fungal infection from anything, just like we do, who knows where, but I'd get him off sand IMMEDIATELY too, as it both harbors and spreads bacteria and fungi, and if he's still on sand and he's this sick, no matter how often you change his sand, it's going to continually reinfect him, possibly spread the microbes to his skin and elsewhere, plus he certainly doesn't need an impaction on top of this infection. Dump the sand, completely disinfect the entire enclosure inside and out, as well as everything in it with either bleach or F10 disinfectant, and put down clean, dry papertowels that can be thrown out as they get soiled. And keep using the papertowels as his substrate throughout his medical treatment to deter bacterial growth inside his enclosure. And please, make a phone call to your nearest vet now, doesn't matter what kind of vet, the concept of doing cultures and prescribing the corresponding antibiotics or antifungals is something they can all handle...And also please consider this, any vet can also GIVE HIM SOME PROPER PAIN MEDS AND ANTIINFLAMMATORIES!!! HE NEEDS PAIN RELIEF IMMEDIATELY, HE'S SUFFERED FAR TOO LONG!
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
zoeodette":2zoo449e said:
Thank you everyone for your comments and advise. I will try to get him in to the vet for some cultures as soon as possible. To answer some of your questions, I live on an island in Alaska so reptile vets are not common here, if at all. His cage temperatures range from around 78 degrees on the cooler side to 102 on his basking side. He does have a UVB light on the cooler side.

<<< more details on this UV light
>> brand ?
>> type = compact coil, T8 tube, T5HO tube ?
>> Rating = W and %UVB ?
>> age ?
>> setup = in dome or reflector hood ?
>> = ontop or under mesh lid ?
>> = distance from the light to the beardie when directly under it ?
>> = hours lights are on each day ?

Recommendation = move the UV light so it's adjacent to the basking globe.
If the UV is not a T8 or T5HO rated at 10%-12% UVB , seriously consider investing in one + a good reflectorhood about 2/3 the length of the viv and installing the new UV so one end is adjacent to the basking globe and
>> not more than 8 inches from the basking spot if a T8 10-12%UVB in a reflector hood with nothing obstructing it
>> not more than 12 inches from the basking spot if a T5HO 10-12%UVB in a reflector hood with nothing obstructing it.



I have no idea what could have caused this, my best guess would be when I was in college for a year his keepers didn't change his sand well enough and a bacteria grew. I will keep updates on him if he gets better. Thank you everyone again for the advise.

Can the local vet use Skype to cyber consult and do supervised examination and tests on your dragon ?
....., even if it means you setup your laptop in the surgery if he cant do Skype from his own surgery's computer, this way it may be possible for him to work with reptile vet in a big town at a distance .
He should be able to consult with a reptile vet by email or phone if that's out .

Other possible causes of the fluid buildup causing swollen eyes and lips are :

Hypervitaminosis A
Bearded dragons can easily get too much vitamins, and vitamin A is one of the most common vitamins that bearded dragons overdose on. The signs of vitamin A overdose are swelling of the eyes, throat, body, and lack of energy.

Constant swollen eyes can also indication of kidney problems, fatty liver disease.

An aneurism is also causal of swollen eyes and lips.

The vet needs to check for a systemic infection, hypervitaminosis A, kidney function and liver desease , and if all these are negative , an aneurism (this happened on side of Puff's face and he had an aneurism of the jugular)..
 

zoeodette

Member
Original Poster
Hello everyone, I just got back from my local vet. I used to work there so she gave me a mouth swab to take home and do a complete mouth swab with. She is consulting a reptile vet right now and is coming up with antibiotics to trial him on. If the antibiotics don't show any improvement then we are sending the mouth culture off to a lab. So by the end of today he should be started on some antibiotics. Hopefully things start looking up from here, I know he's suffering and I want him to get better as soon as possible. He is off sand, the moment I noticed he was sick I got rid of his sand substrate and completely disinfected his cage and replaced it with tiles/paper towels.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
I hope it's something that will respond to antibiotics and he comes good. The other health issues I noted above are not so easy to deal with (though if caught early enough are definitely treatable).

I'd send off the swab anyway , I'd pay to have the tests done right away , if they prove unnecessary then it's only a small cost to pay , but if it is necessary , an extra day or two in waiting for the results could mean the difference between his making it or not ,they can go down hill very rapidly.

Please keep us informed .... I'm sending lots of good vibes in his direction and hoping for a good prognosis and recovery.
 

zoeodette

Member
Original Poster
update: Just got back from the vet. It took her acouple days to research and figure out what treatment she thought was going to be the best, and decided on baytril (0.17ml). I just gave him his first dose and so far he seems to have taken it fine other than a black beard. I will continue to give him baytril twice a day for 10 days. I will keep updating along the way.
 

zoeodette

Member
Original Poster
I gave him a bath to soak in after his first treatment and I plan to do that after every dosage so he won't dehydrate. I do have questions about using a probiotic with his antibiotic though. Is it necessary and is soy yogurt an okay option to use as one?
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

How is he doing tonight?
The Baytril should hopefully take care of the infection. Did you get a culture sent in though,
to check for any other type of mouth bacteria or fungus present?
Since Baytril is hard on the system, non dairy soy yogurt flavored or non flavored is fine. Or,
you can look for non dairy acidophiliz too. You should be able to find either one at a health
food store. Give a small amount of that to him, daily, separately from the medications so it
wont compete with the meds.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
zoeodette":1ujr1t3m said:
I gave him a bath to soak in after his first treatment and I plan to do that after every dosage so he won't dehydrate. I do have questions about using a probiotic with his antibiotic though. Is it necessary and is soy yogurt an okay option to use as one?

Please note , the only way a soak in the bath will help hydrate a bearded dragon (a reptile evolved to survive in Australia's arid interior) is if the dragon drinks the bath water , it will not absorb water though it's skin or via the cloaca.

If he enjoys the baths and they are not stressing him , it's fine to endulge him , but if he's not a beardie who likes baths , it's probably best to discontinue the baths unless they are necessary , in order to reduce his stress levels.

Best ways to hydrate him if he doesn't drink from the bath water or the water dish are :
>> via live insects (silkworms and hornworms are great)
>> via leavy greens
>> via syringe feeding (slowly by mouth) of sloppy food pastes ( GrubPie would be very good made as a sloppy mix ) or purees ( lizard friendly smoothies ).
>> by dripping water on his snout

Please be sure to keep him warm 24/7 while he's being treated, will help make the meds more effective and will help boost his metabolism and immune system.

Sounds like your vet might be a keeper ... good and thorough.
Hope he starts to show some improvements soon, but be patient as thing happen glacially slow with reptiles.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Yes, no baths unless he actively drinks the water through his mouth. He needs oral hydration, that's the ONLY way he'll get hydrated, they absorb no fluid through their vents or skin at all in a bath.
 
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