Taco turning black

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Porter691

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Hey so I got my first bearded dragon (taco) and I've had him just over two weeks. He has recently started turning black. He use to be a beautiful reddish color and I'm really scared that I'm doing something wrong. He is in a bigger tank so it has 3 lights all brand new. 1 hot spot basking light with two points to bask. One at 110 and one at 100 then he has a 18 inch uvb 10.0 bulb about 12 inches from the bottom of the vev. The other bulb just keeps it warm on the other side. Someone please tell me what's wrong. About a week ago I noticed his tail sheading but I haven't seen anything since. His belly is covered in black lines. He still eats. And his back is black.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
What you describe is indicative of a bearded dragon who is too cool and trying to absorb more heat.

Therefore , your temperatures can't be correct / accurate.

So exactly how you are measuring the temperatures (what are you using) ?.
 

Porter691

Member
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kingofnobbys":2yndaglu said:
What you describe is indicative of a bearded dragon who is too cool and trying to absorb more heat.

Therefore , your temperatures can't be correct / accurate.

So exactly how you are measuring the temperatures (what are you using) ?.
With a temp gun
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Porter691":2w1gsnjg said:
kingofnobbys":2w1gsnjg said:
What you describe is indicative of a bearded dragon who is too cool and trying to absorb more heat.

Therefore , your temperatures can't be correct / accurate.

So exactly how you are measuring the temperatures (what are you using) ?.
With a temp gun

So exactly how are you using it ? There is a correct methodology and others that are prone to lots of systematic errors, ie

>> measuring from too far away - the spot being measured includes colder or hotter background surfaces ==> very inaccurate measurement. Most gun thermometers used by hobbyists have very large spot (ratio 8:1, 10:1 , 12:1 , a ratio of 10:1 means at 10 inches , the diameter of the measurement spot is 1 inch, which is very large.)
Correct approach is to measure close so the surface you wish to measure occupies the entire measurement spot and no background objects are seen by the sensor.

>> specular error, measuring the temperature of a radiating source (ie the sun's reflection, a reflection of the basking globe) ==> much higher temperature than the actual surface temperature
Correct approach is to ensure no reflection is in the measurement area.

>> incorrect emissivity for the surface ==> will result in an incorrect temperature measurement
Correct for emissivity (good guns allow the emissivity to be set for the material.

Show us the gun you are using.

Guns are good for getting surface temperatures, worthless for air temperatures, for air temperatures (ie zone temperatures) you need something like http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aquarium-LCD-Electronic-Digital-Thermometer-Fish-Tank-Water-Detector-Practica-BU/252762165947?_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D6ac464a2a1b24339be32c744b2ff5cf9%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D201577608563
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
He's a cutie. :) Lots of dragons have tail nips, nothing to be ashamed of. His colormay be due to him trying to warm up as was mentioned, or it could be stress from shedding.

Can you post a pic of his viv to show the entire set up including placement of the lights.? It may need to be a bit warmer, but on the other hand this may be a passing thing related to shedding.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Hi, welcome! He's a little cutie! The tail nip is common, unfortunately, we know you didn't do it, breeders often keep too many babies together for too long and this happens, along with toes being nipped completely off. Not an issue at all for him though.

As far as his dark color, I agree that he just looks cold. At 3 weeks home with you in his new enclosure most of his relocation stress should be gone, and it sounds like you've got a good UVB tube light, it's an 18" long tube, 10.0, but which brand is it if I can ask? Not all are created equal. And the distance of the UVB tube should be relative to his basking spot and where he will be sitting,that's what you need to worry about, not how far from the bottom of the enclosure it is. Depending on what brand UVB tube you have and what strength it is, I.e. is it a T8 or a T5, this determines how far it should be from his main basking spot. T8 tubes usually need to be within 8" of his basking spot at a maximum distance, T5 UVB tubes usually need to be at a distance of 11" at a minimum from his basking spot. Is the UVB tube mounted inside his enclosure, or is it sitting on top of a lid, like a glass or metal mesh lid? UVB light cannot penetrate glass at all, so you can never set a UVB light on top of a glass lid, and you cannot have any type of clear glass or plastic cover on the UVB tube fixture covering the tube. A lot of tube fixtures come with a clear, plastic cover over the tube for protection from the tube, but they emit little to no heat, and the plastic cover can block up to 50% of the UVB light. A mesh lid will also block up to 50% of the UVB light, and any type of glass blocks 100% of the UVB light. So please never think that he's getting UVB through a window, he's actually getting zero. Remove any clear plastic cover from your UVB fixture. And if it's a T8 10.0 UVB tube then you want it mounted inside the tank, as a T8 tube is not strong enough to penetrate the mesh lids, there needs to be NOTHING BETWEEN your beardie and the UVB tube.. If your UVB tube is a T5 then you can keep it on top of a mesh lid as long as it stays within 11" of your beardie on his basking spot.

And as far as the two basking lights you have over him, they should both be bright white, no colors at all like blue, yellow, red, etc. Your basking light needs to sit right alongside your UVB tube over top of his basking spot so that he gets both the basking light/heat and the UVB unobstructed at the same time, mimicking natural sunlight. Do not have the UVB tube centered over the enclosure and the basking light over the basking spot, I see that a lot and it's not giving the beardie both lights at the same time. Your lights need to be on for at least 12-14 hours every day, and no lights at all on at night. As long as your nighttime temp stays above 65 degrees he needs no nighttime heat source, the temps must drop just like it does outside.

In my opinion, take this how you want to, temperature guns are not as good for measuring reptile enclosure temps as the digital thermometers that have probes on a wire. You can actually set the probe right on his basking spot, exactly where he will be sitting, allow the probe to sit for 20-30 minutes, then read the temperature, and it will be a very accurate basking spot temperature. Then you can move the probe down to the floor of the enclosure on both the Hot Side and the Cool Side, let the probe sit for 20-30 minutes each time you move it to a different location, then read the temps. They will be extremely accurate and will be taken right from where your beardie will be sitting and laying. They only cost $9-$10 at Petco or PetSmart, and are well worth it. I have 2 of these on each of my 3 enclosures, on on the hot side/basking spot and one on the Cool Side.

For a baby the temps need to be within the correct temperatures in order for him to not only heat up, but to be able to properly digest his food and absorb his Calcium and other nutrients. This is another reason your UVB tube needs to be right alongside the basking spot, because after he eats he's going to go directly to his basking spot and lay, because he knows he needs to bask under both the UVB and the heat so that he'll digest his food.

Basking Spot: between 105-110 degrees Fahrenheit maximum for a baby, between 98-103 for an adult over a year old

Hot Side: between 88-93 maximum

Cool Side: between 75-80 maximum (very important you have this gradient, he needs a COOL SIDE to stay below 80 degrees so that he can cool down when he wants too. Cool sides are very often too hot, people don't think it's important, but it is, almost as important as the basking spot being between 105-110 so he can be warm enough and digest... FYI, anything over 110 degrees Fahrenheit on the basking spot and you're cooking him.

Your temps are definitely too low, you should see him spending most of his time on his basking spot, especially after he eats. So if he's not it means either his basking spot is too cold or he's not getting adequate UVB and heat at his basking spot. The temp gun you're using is either inaccurate or you're not using it correctly, the digital probe thermometers are pretty fool-proof.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
I don't think the o.p said anything about it being near a window......and if the uvb is 12" from the ground as as stated, then with a basking platform it will be even closer to the dragon [ if that's what porter meant ] and will be more than enough uvb if it's a t8.
It's good to be aware of that mesh blocks SOME uvb. but it's only between 20-35 % [ 35% if it's the tight mesh like flyscreen.]

So a couple pics of the entire set up will be helpful Porter. He may be too cool but that's not the only reason they turn dark.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
No, he didn't mention a window, but I added that because I see people every day writing that they put their beardies in the window all day, so they get their UVB that way, and I don't think many people realize that glass completely blocks UVB light. Also, I understand measuring the basking spot distance to the UVB tube, but he gave a measurement from the floor of the tank, so I I was telling him that you don't want to measure from the floor but rather the basking spot. He didn't say what UVB tube he had, so I couldn't say whether it was too close or too far away, but I thought the main point to emphasize was that you shouldn't measure from the floor but rather the basking spot. Makes sense to me...

Sorry, I guess my writing isn't up to your standards today...Jesus, everything I said was correct dude, I really don't think it's necessary for you to critique my response by finding things to nitpick about, like mentioning the window. I never said that he said anything about a window, just like I didn't say that his UVB tube was at the wrong distance from the basking spot, I was telling him what distance he needed to measure, rather than the distance he did measure...Is that too difficult for you to understand, or are you just purposely busting my balls today?

That was a rhetorical question, I already know the answer, no reason to point that out to me either...
 

Porter691

Member
Original Poster
EllenD":2r120lhs said:
No, he didn't mention a window, but I added that because I see people every day writing that they put their beardies in the window all day, so they get their UVB that way, and I don't think many people realize that glass completely blocks UVB light. Also, I understand measuring the basking spot distance to the UVB tube, but he gave a measurement from the floor of the tank, so I I was telling him that you don't want to measure from the floor but rather the basking spot. He didn't say what UVB tube he had, so I couldn't say whether it was too close or too far away, but I thought the main point to emphasize was that you shouldn't measure from the floor but rather the basking spot. Makes sense to me...

Sorry, I guess my writing isn't up to your standards today...Jesus, everything I said was correct dude, I really don't think it's necessary for you to critique my response by finding things to nitpick about, like mentioning the window. I never said that he said anything about a window, just like I didn't say that his UVB tube was at the wrong distance from the basking spot, I was telling him what distance he needed to measure, rather than the distance he did measure...Is that too difficult for you to understand, or are you just purposely busting my balls today?

That was a rhetorical question, I already know the answer, no reason to point that out to me either...
hey I really appreciate all the information you have provided. I just got off work and can't really answer all the questions rn. No the lights are directly inside the vev no mesh or anything in between. I have tested temps with both temp guns and probes and stuff. I was very scared he was sick. I've only had him just over two weeks but I already love the little bugger and don't wanna lose him.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Please no arguments on this thread! Please stay on topic. We are here to help the OP & his dragon without being rude to each other.

Thank you,
Tracie
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
I had a thought that he might be an Eastern or a Rankins , these are darker , but looking at what I can see of his head shape and beard shape , not a Rankins . Could be an eastern maybe , but if the OP is outside Australia I'm not so sure about that ( believe easterns are pretty scarce captive breed outside Australia from what I've heard - could be wrong ).

I'll stick with dark because he's a tad cold , you could provide a climbing branch so he can get a few inches closer to the UV tube and basking globe , he'll climb to where he feels warm enough of his own accord then.
 
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