Underweight? Wont eat!!! Help please

epicBeardo · Jul 9, 2017

I got a baby beardie 5 days ago, her name is Cirilla. The breeder told me she is 4 months old. Day 1, she ate 4 medium crickets, ate nothing for 2 days then Day 4 we had to force feed her 2 medium crickets, and she wont eat today either. We took her to the pet shop and they explained that she could have been overfed on day 1 which is why she wont eat. They said to give small crickets instead of medium from now on, she is scared of greens. We had her in a container for an hour with 4 crickets and she still wont eat, I'm not sure if she is underweight but I'm starting to worry about her. She is roughly 8-9 inches from nose to tip of tail, she is very slender and sucks in her sides and is a tiny bit thicker than a normal pencil.

kingofnobbys · Jul 9, 2017

epicBeardo":czzmyu7g said:
I got a baby beardie 5 days ago, her name is Cirilla. The breeder told me she is 4 months old. ;
;
She is roughly 8-9 inches from nose to tip of tail, she is very slender and sucks in her sides and is a tiny bit thicker than a normal pencil.

She's tiny for a 4 month old and super cute !!! and looks pretty alert and happy to me.

At 4 months old my gang were the following weights:
Rex (F) 128.1g
Puff (M) 105.2g , Puff and Rex were sharing a tank.
Peppa (F) 119.5g
Toothless (M) 91.1g , Peppa and Toothless were housed separately.

I initially thought she might be a rankins , but on looking at her head and crow I believe she is a central .

Even if she's is 4 months old, she has plenty of time to grow and should grow to be lovely girl.

I think she is more like 5- 6 weeks old ( between 6g and 10g ). Likely if she is indeed 4 months old she has been with a large number of other hatchlings and has been bullied and dominated and not game to eat much or bask as much as needed.

This food strike is common - I think the main issue is Cirilla is still stressed - it's called relocation stress and beardies often go through it when brought home , it can last a few days to over a week.

Providing the heating and UV are right she'll soon be eating bugs like there is no tomorrow, and growing like crazy ....

Here is my cheat sheet .... viewtopic.php?f=6&t=234738&p=1806050#p1806050
essentially the things for you to check are :

>>> BASKING LIGHT & VIV TEMPERATURES

>>> UVA & UVB at right intensity at the basking spot

>>> PHOTOPERIOD

>>> FEEDING SCHEDULE
at her age , if you can manage it , three live insect meals per day (no restrictions) , OK to offer high calcium greens but don't worry if she ignores them , hatchlings and juveniles often show no interest in the greens.
Best feeders for her are :
>BSF maggots (phoenix worms) = excellent , naturally near perfect Ca/P
>Blowfly gents = excellent BUT these will pupate fast
>Silkworms = excellent highly nutritious and rich in calcium , she can handle silkworms up to about 2 inches long at her age
>crickets ( I'd be buying 25day old - 1/3 size crickets no bigger for her for now).
>roaches
>locusts
size of roaches and locusts about the same size as the cricket.
The crickets, roaches and locusts need to be gutloaded with calcium rich greens, I also feed my crickets (I don't use roaches or locusts) with fresh carrot chunks and Repcal Adult Bearded Dragon Pellets (straight from the bottle).

>>> SUPPLIMENTATION

Handfeeding is OK, it's one way to be sure the little beardie gets her needs and is fabulous way to bond with her.

AHBD · Jul 9, 2017

I agree that it's part relocation stress as well as the crickets probably being too big. Another thing, just feed her in her cage......taking them out to feed in another container can stress them. Just put the small crickets in a jar with a pinch of calcium powder. Shake them until they are dizzy + slow moving, then drop 2-3 right near her. Just use a few at a time and keep offering more as she eats them.

EllenD · Jul 9, 2017

I agree, it's relocation stress, don't force it, it sometimes takes a week or so, and force feeding her is making it worse...And 4 crickets is not overfeeding her, please don't trust or listen to pet shops.

She's not 4 months old, I'd agree she looks like she's 1-2 months old, closer to 4-5 weeks, not even close to 4 months. Most baby beardies at pet stores sell beardies that are very tiny like this, and they are just a month old, so I'm pretty sure that's the case with her. I'd be feeding small crickets as well, mediums may choke her or cause impaction. No bugs bigger than the space between her eyes. Allow her to eat all she wants in 10 minutes. But it may take a week for her to settle in, provided her 3 temperature zones are correct and she has an adequate UVB light. If not then you need to fix them ASAP.

epicBeardo · Jul 9, 2017

this is the setup. Thanks everyone, temperatures are fine (usually 30C on cool side and 37 on basking side), UVB is a coil bulb, i've heard a lot of negatives about these but it seems to be fine for her as she is usually climbing and energetic when she is being played with. I've heard force feeding can be bad but i do not want her to starve. When crickets are placed near her, they climb up and around her and she just sits still and does not attempt to eat, when food is placed in her mouth she remains still and acts as if she is a statue, im 16 and planning on getting a job to save to take her to the vet incase something is wrong, but is she is fine that'd be great

kingofnobbys · Jul 10, 2017

I see a red glow .... I take it there is a red (infrared) globe in one of those domes .... these coloured globes are worthless for beardies - essentially your beardie can see his food but because everything has red light shining onto it , he doesn't know the food is food.
Ditch the red coloured globe, or if possible return it to the Petshop and exchange it for something useful.

epicBeardo · Jul 10, 2017

That's the heat lamp, normal white uvb light next to it, what colour would you suggest? Or just a normal white light?

kingofnobbys · Jul 10, 2017

epicBeardo":2m36b09y said:
this is the setup. Thanks everyone, temperatures are fine (usually 30C on cool side
<<< is OK , I tend to run my cool zone up to 28oC
and 37 on basking side),
<<< is a OK for the warm zone (maybe a few degrees too warm)
UVB is a coil bulb,
<<< details please
UVA AND UVB ADEQUATE ?
>>> is the uv rated AT LEAST 10%UVB ?
COMPACT (curly globe) WATTAGE ?
>>> how old is the compact == they decay in performance over time.
VERY IMPORTANT : what is the brand ?

Not all UVB compacts, tubes and MVBs are created equal or as well.
Many Chain Petshops sell their own brand (Zilla, All Living Things, Reptile-One, Nat Geo , Natural Selections (in green boxes) which are cheap Chinese clones made very cheaply using very poor quality quartz glass and cheap phosphors ==> very poor UV spectrum produced including UVC and bad parts of the UVB band.

I personally use 26W UVB200 globes mounted HORIZONTALLY in ExoTerra NanoHoods mounted under my viv's lids , and position my basking spots so the beardies can get to about 8 - 10 inches from the globes.
ie UVB flux is about 190 microW UVB / sqcm at their basking spots - works very well for my hatchlings and juveniles and subadults.

I suspect the main issues are
1) coloured (red) basking globe
2) inadequate UVB compact coil mounted wrong and too far from the basking spot to be any benefit ==> inadequate UVA (results in diminished apetite in the short term , neurological problems if not corrected)
==> inadequate UVB (unable to properly metabolise dietary calcium to produce VitD3 and ultimately more beardie in short term, MBD if not corrected).
==> globe may be a dodgey Chinese clone and harming the hatching.

Consider , if you have the funds , upgrading from compact coil UVB globe to a T5HO 10-12% UVB tube mounted UNDER the lid in a reflector hood.
See for a guide

is a good idea to mount the UVB globe or one end of the UVB T8 or T5 tube, so it’s adjacent as close as you can arrange it , to the basking bulb.

A nice par38 colorless incandescent or halogen spotglobe is a good choice for your basking globe , will give nice levels of heat, and nice colourless bright light. Worth trying get the basking SPOT temperature set at 40-43oC. NO HOTTER !!!

i've heard a lot of negatives about these but it seems to be fine for her as she is usually climbing and energetic when she is being played with. I've heard force feeding can be bad but i do not want her to starve. When crickets are placed near her, they climb up and around her and she just sits still and does not attempt to eat, when food is placed in her mouth she remains still and acts as if she is a statue, im 16 and planning on getting a job to save to take her to the vet incase something is wrong, but is she is fine that'd be great

epicBeardo · Jul 10, 2017

It's an exo terra repti glo 10.0 compact fluorescent desert terranium lamp, says 26 watts, effective up to 20", and says ultra high uvb output, not sure the exacts because we threw out the box a while ago. Got it about a week and a half ago

kingofnobbys · Jul 10, 2017

epicBeardo":3jzrgafu said:
That's the heat lamp, normal white uvb light next to it, what colour would you suggest? Or just a normal white light?

So you have
an infrared spotglobe (bad)
a compact coiled UVB globe (of unstated wattage and %UVB rating and brand)
and a white spot globe ?

I'd replace the coloured (infrared) globe with either a par38 incandescent or halogen spotty (if you only have two globes in the viv).
or
If you have 3 globes in the viv, I'd replace the white spot globe if it is not throwing sufficient hear with a par38 incandescent or halogen spot globe
and
replace the infrared (red light emitting) spotglobe with a ceramic heat emitter for overnight use and for extra head on those very cool days if the colourless spotglobe is not throwing enough heat.

Please clarify exactly what globes you have.

kingofnobbys · Jul 10, 2017

epicBeardo":28xks2mp said:
It's an exo terra repti glo 10.0 compact fluorescent desert terranium lamp, says 26 watts, effective up to 20", and says ultra high uvb output, not sure the exacts because we threw out the box a while ago. Got it about a week and a half ago

Should be fine if mounted correctly
>> in a horizontal reflector (nano) hood
>> under the mesh lid
>> about 8 inches from the basking spot.

"Effective to a specified distance" DOES NOT mean this is the optimum distance from UV source to the basking spot , effective to distance x means ONLY that UVB will be measureable at distance x.

The optimum UVB distance will be somewhat closer than the distance x.
For example a 26W UVB200 globe :
.......Effective Distance up to 40 inches ==> 4 microW UVB / sqcm
.......At a distance of 24 inches ==> 10 microW UVB / sqcm
.......A good distance for beardies is 6-8 inches ==> 160 - 90 microW / sqcm.

epicBeardo · Jul 10, 2017

No idea about the heat lamp but i know it's 150 watts, it's my mums set up as well, her lizard shares with mine, im trying to get my own as i know it is bad to share, but one is not getting all the food because we take one out during feeding time. I also understand that her lizard can be dominating mine however they are yet to show any aggressive behaviour. They also do not spend a lot of time in the basking spot, they usually just climb to the top of the wall at the back however, the light is about 8 inches away from the intended basking spot

kingofnobbys · Jul 10, 2017

epicBeardo":1ha6b9sl said:
No idea about the heat lamp but i know it's 150 watts, it's my mums set up as well, her lizard shares with mine, im trying to get my own as i know it is bad to share, but one is not getting all the food because we take one out during feeding time. I also understand that her lizard can be dominating mine however they are yet to show any aggressive behaviour. They also do not spend a lot of time in the basking spot, they usually just climb to the top of the wall at the back however, the light is about 8 inches away from the intended basking spot

IF SHARING THE VIV this is dangerous . I CAN NOT STRESS STRONGLY ENOUGH - these two lizards need to separately housed . Please separate the pair as soon as humanly possible.

If you are not financial enough to buy a second viv , this is a cheap way to house one or both lizards viewtopic.php?f=34&t=233480

Regards lights , please find out exactly what you have .

epicBeardo · Jul 10, 2017

I completely understand this but my mum does not, i explained multiple times that hers will start to attack mine soon because hers is bigger but she thinks it is just playing and doesnt understand how problematic it can be for mine. About 10 minutes ago her lizard was snapping at mine with his tongue out thinking mine is food

epicBeardo · Jul 10, 2017

I'm leading towards giving her back to her breeder because i feel like she will be better off, force feeding cannot continue and i can't have it being bitten for climbing to it's favourite spot. If i decide to, i will keep all these replies in mind and apply them in future when i can fit another viv, and am more knowledgeable on how to take care of them and keep them healthy. She has made me cry because of how worried i am about her, and i am not a man who cries often.

Underweight? Wont eat!!! Help please

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