Swollen, watery eyes; local vet is unsure of what's up

Hi everyone, within the last few weeks my four year old Iggy's eyes have become what looks like swollen and teary and I'm not sure what this could be, I'm getting very worried for my little bearded princess!

Here's the photos I've taken of her eyes in their current state; http://imgur.com/a/FVENi
And here's a photo of what she normally looks like; http://i.imgur.com/qtX2Enx.jpg

I've already taken her to the vet. Their first assumption was possible heart disease causing liquid build-up behind her eyes. For this, they performed blood tests, x-rays and an echocardiogram to look around; thankfully, they found it's unlikely to be heart disease at this point but from there they're unsure of what it could be now.

My first consideration was photo-kerato conjunctivitis. There seemed like a chance of this, as within the last year I swapped out her normal basking lamp for mercury-vapor bulbs in addition to my typical length of 10.0 UVB T5 HO. I had been using this for nearly a year, within the last two months or two the first bulb went out so I swapped with another and, from what I read, there's a chance of this happening from bulb-to-bulb. However, looking through more characteristics of this ailment and her behavior, the vet didn't think this was the case.

My next idea could be possibly vitamin A toxicity. Again, within a year period I began to feed her butternut squash in the form of "noodles" bought from my local grocery store. Literally just butternut squash shaved into strings, and I would break them into smaller lengths (about the size of a typical superworm) and add them to her greens (which typically consist of either collard greens, dandelion greens, or kale occasionally). I don't add them to every salad; I would estimate I would give her maybe a handful a week if that. Because she's had trouble/reluctance to eat greens, she has not had butternut squash for about two weeks now. Considering this, her issues haven't appeared to diminished much so I'm not 100% sold on this, but it's higher up the list than PKC.

In addition to the greens, I also feed her mostly hornworms I've ordered online. In addition, I'll mix it up with either dubia roaches or crickets, sometimes superworms for treats but not a staple. I'll powder these meals with calcium, she normally gets these meals weekly. Sometimes my stash of live food may not last and she may go up to 5 days without live food (I really can only get live food on the weekends with my schedule, horn worms are delivered bi-weekly) but not often.

I try to keep her viv clean, sometimes I don't get to her poos right away but they're usually cleaned within about two days.

To elaborate the lighting situation, this includes the high output length of UVB light, a 100W ceramic heat emitter on a variable lamp (cranked up for the winter months), typically the 160W mercury UV bulb I mentioned before but now swapped for a regular 150W basker, and a 100w bulb on the other side of the tank. I haven't actually measured the heat recently but from "eyeballing" it with my hands her temperatures should be okay.

I included a picture of her tank in the album I posted above, but to explain the setup further her tank flooring is an overturned piece of tile (rough side up), she has a few rocks to climb on, a wood log with a crawl space, and usually I have a wooden "house" structure meant for large rodents like guinea pigs or rabbits in there with bedding (pieces of old shirts or blankets).

With the information provided, I hope someone could help me figure out what the heck is wrong her. Let me know if there's any more info I can provide, really appreciate your time reading this!

EDIT; I forgot to add they did prescribe her with daily medication to try alleviate her eye swelling; 0.07mL of furosemide (Lasix) a day. In addition, because of her eating behavior they also gave me Carnivore Care to force feed her if necessary (2-4mL a day). As I mentioned earlier, she does not seem interested in greens currently but I can get her to eat live food when she sees it/feels like it. From my offerings of food, it seems like she may be able to see but maybe not well? It's hard to tell.

EDIT 2; I added her age to the description (4yrs)

Hi there, just wondering if your vet is a qualified reptile vet that has a lot of experience with beardies ? Or is he an " exotics " vet that might see a few reptiles here + there ? I ask only to be sure that they know what to look for in the bloodwork. Did they mention anything about kidney function from the bloodwork ? If not, ask specifically about that. Dehydration can sometimes cause swelling like that, so be sure to offer water by spraying her lightly on her nose [ spray, stop.repeat to give her a minute to see that it's a drink coming down her snout ] You can also use a dropper or syringe for this.

I think your temps. are probably too hot with 250 watts altogether combining the bulbs, so that's one thing to see about right away. Do you have a way to take the temp. ? Even if not, you should definitely reduce the bulbs down to the 150.

Offer more water + less heat and see it it helps any. Best wishes to your Princess Iggy !

Thanks AHBD, I'll try making those changes. I do give her a bath every few weeks, occasionally she'll take a drink from the tub; I'll try that tonight or at least let her soak a bit. And I'll try reducing the lighting too.

Unfortunately it was an "exotics" expert, not specifically reptiles. They were the best I was able to find here in Boston so far.

Hello,

I agree, try reducing the wattage it may be too much for the size of tank.
Your basking bulb, is it a neodymium coated lamp, what brand is it?
What brand is the MVB you have?
It is unlikely to be vitamin A toxicity because no synthetic vitamin A was used, it was all
natural sources. She is getting calcium weekly? She will need that at least 3 times per
week, as an adult.

Tracie

Hi Tracie,

Thanks for your response, I'll check vit A toxicity off the list then. I'm using Zoo Med bulbs for everything, including the MVB bulb. Normally she does get calcium weekly, I almost always powder her live feed in calcium powder. Never really coated her greens, though.

At this point her vision does seem very impaired, usually the sight of my tongs along make her excited since she knows something good is coming; not really getting any reaction from her even waving them right in front of her eyes. However, with the roaches I have I'm able to grab one at a time, hold it nearish to the ground right below her snout and if she notices it I can help guide it to her mouth as she starts to dive for it. So, I don't think she's lethargic since she can eat when she realizes it's there.

Hello,

How is your dragon today?
Let me make sure I have your lighting straight. You are currently using the Zoomed Powersun MVB correct? How close is it to her?
How close is the Reptisun 10 T5 HO bulb from her?
If you can, post a few pictures of the tank setup too, if you can.
I would definitely recommend getting either a digital probe or a temp gun, so you can know exactly what the temperatures are.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

Hi Tracie,

Still not improved, unfortunately. I have recently swapped out the MVB bulb with a regular heat bulb just to see if there's any chance of it being the UV abundance issue, but things haven't really changed one way or another.

The distance of the light sources, depending on her position, can range between 6-10 inches. I can get some photos here later.

I'm also trying to reach out to any more reptile specialists around me who may be able to help her; I did that this weekend so hopefully I'll hear back today. I'm just worried about the costs, even though I would pay everything in the world for her at this point. The first place already got $1000 from me!

Hi everyone, just some updates on Iggy's current status.

I got her back today for her follow up visit at the vet I've been visitng; the swollen eyes issue is still a "mystery", but we're at least able to rule a few things out through her blood tests and what not. They're finding her blood tests are coming out good and normal, white blood cell count seems to be ever so slightly higher than normal but they say it's pretty minor. Her heart looks normal too.

Because her swelling hasn't gone away (in fact it seems a little worse, her eyes are pretty much swollen shut and still teary), they're thinking something is impeding the blood flow from her head; they believe this could either be parasite related or possibly something like cancer. She did poo for them, thankfully, so they will be running a parasite test on her scat.

Because her vision is currently down to what seems like zero, I'm currently feeding her the Oxbow Carnivore Care. However, a little research I've done online leads me to believe there's a higher abundance of protein in this formula and it may be better to either use the herbivore care or maybe mix the two; does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Lastly, they did say they don't think her eyes are inflamed so hopefully if we can reduce the swelling she wont lose her vision. I truly hope this is the case since a) I want my beardie to see the world and b) it would be difficult for me to maintain a daily syringe fed diet with my work schedule and possible times of work travel. She's still hanging in there, active enough (but does feel frail when holding her) and hasn't shown me many signs of discomfort so at least I feel like I'm making her life comfortable through this. I appreciate everyone's time so far!

EDIT; I forgot to add, would something like an eye wash be recommended? Vetericyn has been suggested to me, just wondering what other's thoughts were.

iProd":3t4e2uov said:

Hi everyone, just some updates on Iggy's current status.

I got her back today for her follow up visit at the vet I've been visitng; the swollen eyes issue is still a "mystery", but we're at least able to rule a few things out through her blood tests and what not. They're finding her blood tests are coming out good and normal, white blood cell count seems to be ever so slightly higher than normal but they say it's pretty minor. Her heart looks normal too.

Because her swelling hasn't gone away (in fact it seems a little worse, her eyes are pretty much swollen shut and still teary), they're thinking something is impeding the blood flow from her head; they believe this could either be parasite related or possibly something like cancer. She did poo for them, thankfully, so they will be running a parasite test on her scat.

Because her vision is currently down to what seems like zero, I'm currently feeding her the Oxbow Carnivore Care. However, a little research I've done online leads me to believe there's a higher abundance of protein in this formula and it may be better to either use the herbivore care or maybe mix the two; does anyone have any thoughts on this?

.... questions for your vet .... I'd give her carnivore care or bugpie and some herbivore care as well, I think she needs the protein to help her recover.



Lastly, they did say they don't think her eyes are inflamed so hopefully if we can reduce the swelling she wont lose her vision. <<<< did the vet suggest antibiotic eyedrops or ointment for the eyes .... careful as eyedrops can my her eyes even more inflamed and irritated --- I found this out the hard way in person - suffer very itchy eyes in allergy season and used an eyewash solution , only made the condition worse , occasional eyedrops weren't so bad, eventually ontop Claretyne and very occasional eyedrops.

One poster here had a beardie who had infected eyes , vet made the situation even worse . Vet was floundering about and really didn't know what was causing the problems , extensive surgery later and a long rehab period and the lovely lady who was trying so desperately hard to save her beardie lost him a few months later (complications from surgery).
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=221999&p=1739967&hilit=eye+abscess#p1739958



I truly hope this is the case since a) I want my beardie to see the world and b) it would be difficult for me to maintain a daily syringe fed diet with my work schedule and possible times of work travel. She's still hanging in there, active enough (but does feel frail when holding her) and hasn't shown me many signs of discomfort so at least I feel like I'm making her life comfortable through this. I appreciate everyone's time so far!

EDIT; I forgot to add, would something like an eye wash be recommended? Vetericyn has been suggested to me, just wondering what other's thoughts were.

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I hope your vet can get to bottom of this and cure it before becomes really hard and expensive to deal with.

Is there any chance there is something in his tank that is forming gritty dust that's getting on his eyes and irritating them ?

Did the vet take a swab of the worse effected eye for pathology ?

Hello,

Just checking to see how your girl is doing this evening?
How are her eyes looking, any improvement at all?
The Reptisun 10 T5 HO tube is 6 inches from her, correct? I was just wondering if your light fixture has reflective backing on it. If you could check on that, since that does increase the UVB ouput. Is it on top of the screen or mounted underneath of it?
I am just wanting to cover all bases here but try turning the HO light off for a week or so to see if that makes any difference. I am wondering if it is placed too close?
The basking light is just a regular halogen bulb then, if so, that should be fine.
The Vetericyn has a good reputation so it definitely wouldn't hurt to use that. You can also use a sterile saline solution in conjunction with the Vetericyn also, daily.
It isn't sounding like it is heart or kidney related to me, which is why I was reviewing your setup again.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

Hi kingofnobbys, thanks for your response. I'm not sure if they did do a swab test of her eye discharge, certainly something I can ask my vet. As far as her enclosure goes, there's never been any sand in there and primarily it's tile or smoothish stones; the only thing that could have particles I feel like would be her rear wall made of styrofoam or a faux-rock perch magnetically attached to the side; the wall bits are pretty big, I couldn't see those pieces getting into her eyes (especially both at the same time) and the perch appears to have no signs of wear or disintegration either. It's unfortunate to hear about Stumpy, I'm beginning to feel like I'm at that point of hoping for the best but expecting the worst so far...

Tracie; her eyes remain largely unchanged; this morning they do seem slightly less swollen today than yesterday (today I can see her pupils and iris, yesterday they were nearly swollen shut).

The UVB fixture does have a reflector behind it, I have also been sure it wasn't blocked much by removing the mesh top that came with the tank. From her perching places the UVB light can be about 5-6 inches away and at the lowest point of her tank it can be up to 10 inches; she's been hanging out near the lowest parts recently just kind of sitting around since she can't see where to navigate or jump up to. I will try turning off the UVB bulb and keep her heat lamp on for now.

My order of Vetericyn just arrived today, so I'll also try applying this to her. Really appreciate everyone's suggestions and questions so far, anything more I can provide here just let me know because I want to help her

Also, here's a few photos of the current state of her eyes. The stuff on her snout is just the Carnivore Care I've been feeding her;

https://imgur.com/a/EUkfm

That looks so incredibly painful that poor thing...

I just got an update from the vet after they did the fecal sample, and it turns out they did see a high number of pinworms in her stool. So they will be prescribing me something for her to take for a few days to try and clear them out. Unfortunately it wasn't the doctor who delivered this news but a nurse, and they can't say if it will address her swollen eyes but maybe!?

I've never heard of pinworms causing something like that, but they are relatively easy to get rid of fortunately. The eyes remind me of past cases in which the issue was liver or kidney related as has been mentioned but if the blood tests came back with normal results, I'm not sure what the case is here. Is your vet able to do a CT scan to try and get another look at what's going on?