Dragon flipping onto back constantly, lethargic

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SilverGravity

Hatchling Member
**For anyone new looking at this topic it's been majorly updated since this was posted and he's doing much better and is slowly healing, he's currently home with me**

Hi, I'm really hoping someone here could help me figure out what is wrong with this dragon. He's not mine, he's one of the animals at my high school. There's an agriscience program I'm in there, which is where the dragon is. His name is Steve, and they just recently got him. He is not getting the proper care despite me telling them what to do. When they first got him a few weeks ago, he was very lethargic and dark due to lack of proper heating, but now he's starting to flip onto his back.

Every time I get up to the agriscience building I have to check on him to make sure he's not on his back, but he always is. He doesn't have the energy to right himself, so he just lays there until I come to check on him. He scratches at the glass sometimes, sleeps with his head up against the glass in the corner, and is not very alert. He is getting a little more alert, though, since they got one more heat lamp. He's constantly on his back and I've never seen him do it since he's a school animal and I don't see him often, so I'm not sure how he does it or why.

Some answers to the questions I can answer based off memory:
How old is your dragon? Around 3
How long have you had your dragon? A few weeks
What is the sex of your dragon? Male
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? Maybe 3 feet long, a foot or little bigger for the height and width
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? Paper towel
Do you use UVB lights? No, though I've told them he needs it
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? Is it a white or colored bulb? The basking bulb is the only one in there, and I think white, it's not blue or red or anything
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? Theres a heat pad attached to the side of his basking spot
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. All I've seen him get is dandelion greens and crickets
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? Pretty sure definite no
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? Not that I've seen
Do you bath your dragon? How often? No
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? No, he has a water dish
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? No
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? No

Thank you for any help as to how to help him! Besides getting him his proper equipment, that is. I'm trying. I want to take him home over summer to nurse him back to health and get him what he needs, but I have my own dragon so I want to be sure Steve doesn't have any bacteria or anything contagious that I can accidentally get Sapphire (my girl) sick with. Thank you!
 

Shenlong

Member
tell them to either get a UVB FLOURECENT TUBE tomorrow first thing and they can call a vet and get him taken for treatment, if they wont do either wrap him up in a towel and march him outta there and get him to someone responsible to give the help he needs, sure they might be a bit cross with you but they have no right to make a beautiful lill dragon suffer :x
 

Derz13

Member
I agree with Shenlong!

DEMAND a UVB light or take him out of there....I am almost positive that that is downright animal abuse. Proper care guidelines should be followed meticulously when keeping any animal in an educational facility.
That bearded dragon needs a calcium supplement as well. In the meantime, see if you can carefully bring him outside so he can absorb some UVB naturally. You mentioned you had a BD at home...if you have just a teaspoon or so of your calcium powder to bring in for him to lightly sprinkle on his greens and crickets until they can get him some of his own. Putting vegetables like a raw carrot or sweet potato in the cricket container would be great to give his crickets some more nutrients before he eats them.

Find a clean, unused dropper or spray bottle or something of the like and drip water on his nose so he can get some hydration, he is most likely not paying any attention to the water bowl in his cage.

Is there any sort of thermometer in there that would let you know what the temperatures are?

If it were me, I would go to my principle and let him know this animal is not being taken care of properly. He is at risk of death or serious long term injury if medical attention is not given immediately. You are obviously his only hope, please help him!
 

SilverGravity

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Trust me, I'm trying my hardest. I've already talked to two of the teachers and nothing besides one more light added has been done to help him, even when I stressed the importance of UVB to them both. I have one more teacher I'm going to talk to tomorrow (she likes me, I'm hoping I can get through to her), and if things don't change soon then I'm going to have to talk to the principal because he just isn't getting what he deserves or requires. It doesn't help that the small animal teacher in charge of the animals is one of those people who thinks they're always right. I think she hates that a high schooler is telling her how to do her job. She never even replied to my email I sent her on what to do to care for him, nor has she followed anything in it.

In the mean time, should I just add the calcium powder daily? I'm not sure if I'm able to get him outside, either. Unfortunately I'm not in that class for this quarter of the school year. I'll try, though, for sure, he needs that UV. Is there anything I can do to maybe help him stop flipping over, or do you guys know why he might be doing that?

Forgot to mention- they do not have thermometers in there, however they do have extra Mercury thermometers. I'll try to stop by after class tomorrow and see if I can find one of them and get a reading on the temperature. I also wanted to know if the tank he's in is alright? It's plastic with one glass wall, it goes into a big holder of other tanks like it. The screen at the stop has rather small holes. He isn't in the big holder anymore though, he's out in his tank on the counter so they can put the heat lamp on it.
 

neilkd21

Hatchling Member
If they won't listen phone your local animal cruelty centre and report them for animal abuse. I know in the uk we have R.S.P.C.A so I assume there would be something similar.

It sounds like there is something serious going on as flipping over is not normal, I believe it can be a neurological issue but it sounds like the conditions are rubbish so could be anything. Definitely needs a vet trip and better care.
 

Shenlong

Member
it's not your fault but there are stupid people in the world, you have done all you can on your own authority but they need to act now and fast to help the poor lill guy, you know his care is substandard in every regard, and I'm sure I've seen in the news online about a pet store owner being caught shamelessly abusing a poor little dragon, people love dragons and i'm sure the school would hate to be named and shamed for this kind of neglect, especially when you have emails to show you have already advised his keeper of the basic care needs. get a parent or group of friends to come with you to the principal and demand that his setup and supplementation be sorted immediately and that he goes with you and the teacher responsible to the vets to get checked out, if they won't do this then demand that they give you the dragon and all the equipment they have and get him out of there. they won't like either option tho so expect to put up a battle for him, sure he's happy to at least have you in his corner! doing the small things that you can is great but sounds like he needs as much as help as another living creature could ever need. don't let them bully you into silence, shout as loud as you can and make yourself and steve heard, from what I've seen online just it could be an inner ear infection, but with his accommodation it's more likely the onset of MBD? get him to a vet and place that can and will take care of him
 

Shenlong

Member
and just to be safe I would make sure if you do take him home to keep him in a different room and fully disinfect yourself and even a quick change of clothes to be safe and keep a quarantine in place to keep your girl safe until you know what the full extent of Steve's troubles really are. wishing you all the luck with helping him and keep us updated and keep fighting the good fight we're all behind you :blob5:
 

SilverGravity

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
I'll be sure to keep you guys updated! I'm really hoping I can get him soon, I can get him over the summer but summer isn't for a couple weeks.
 

Derz13

Member
If his conditions aren't addressed, he may not be fortunate enough to come home with you!. Steve probably needs a calcium shot. It is extremely hard to say what is causing him to roll over as it could be a couple of things and as mentioned above, his living conditions are pretty rough it is hard to pinpoint what is causing it. I would agree with above. Have your parent/guardian come in with you if your next step does not work. Having an authoritative figure brought to there attention my wake them up a bit. They need to know you are serious!!

If you can not take him outside. Is he possibly by a window in the classroom? Open the window and carefully hold him in the sunlight. It is not ideal exposure but it will at least give him something!

If the enclosure is really 3ft. long then it should at least be okay for now...probably the only thing that is okay with his set up. The temperature on the floor of his hot side should be in the high 90s. Normally I would recommend a basking log but since he is in poor conditions, I worry that he will fall off. Maybe a brick, or a large flat stone that isn't too high off the ground. I know this is at school so supplies may be limited, but a brick would absorb some heat and give him a spot to retain more heat. Also, is there a cool side? one side of the tank needs to be between 73-76 degrees Fahrenheit. Keep us updated with tank temps and let us know what they are going to do about the situation! Good Luck!
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Poor Steve, that is too bad that they are too ignorant to listen to you, which is costing him his health.
If it is calcium & UVB deficiency which is most likely is, then he wont get much better at all just giving calcium if he doesn't have any UVB exposure. They can't absorb calcium, vitamins or synthesize D3 at all without being exposed to UVB in some form or fashion, minimally.
The tank size is good overall. I agree, be sure the basking platform is low so he doesn't have to climb & maybe he wont flip himself as often.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie
 

SilverGravity

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Alright, hi guys! So I just checked on Steve and luckily he was not on his back, but he was scratching at the glass with his eyes closed. When I talked to my teacher about Steve needing UVB, though, she told me he was dead. She was surprised to hear that he was alive. Quite concerning that they thought he was dead. Luckily though, she told me to email her the email I had sent the small animal teacher and she'll see what she can do. In the email I'm just going to ask if I can take him, I can give more than they can even if it's not everything he needs right away.
 

SilverGravity

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
So I talked to the small animal teacher after school, and this is what I found out: Steve is about 3 years old, the temperature in the tank is 104 degrees (that's what she told me at least, I could find a thermometer to check), and he was cared for even worse before they got him. When he came here it was his first time getting greens, and he's never had UV lighting. :(

They took him outside today for around an hour, and I gave him some calcium on his greens. The worst thing- she won't get a UVB light because of how expensive they are. She'll only get it if she thinks he'll survive, but without it how can he ever get better? When I told her he needed to go to the vet, she also said they couldn't afford it. She didn't seem to want to let me take him home before summer, either, when I asked. I'm really not sure what else I can do for him.

Also, when I flipped him over today I noticed spots on his hind legs and vent area? I looked it up and I'm pretty sure they're just the femoral pores, but I wanted to be sure.
image14.jpg


Also got a picture of Steve:
image12.jpg
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Poor guy. He does have a chance at survival, but he will absolutely need proper temperatures and lighting. That is directly related to their digestion and overall health. Natural sunlight will help in the meantime, but a good UVB light is essential. A good T5 light is somewhat expensive at first but it will last for over a year. Based on that photo, he looks severely malnourished to me. He may need some syringe feeding if he isn't eating on his own but I'd focus first on hydration. Drop water on his nose and see if you can get him to drink a bit and get hydrated.
 

Shenlong

Member
the fact that he'll need the light to get better kinda discounts them from ever getting the light! it's just excuses because they can't afford to keep him, they should have researched all his needs and the costs involved before committing to taking him on in the first place :angry5:
it's great that you're trying so hard but the longer he stays there it's more and more likely that whatever you do will be too little too late! either take him out of there and just deal with the fallout afterwards, or call whatever animal welfare authority you have in your area and get them to come and perform an inspection and have them save him. if you could go round with a bucket and have a collection to rescue our reptile/save Steve if you have a few hundred people in school and they can each drop 50cents or even a whole $1 in the bucket you should have more than enough to get him a light and possibly a trip to the vet, but he needs longer in the uvb while at the proper temps to aid his digestion and while getting out in the sun is a nice healthy boost for a dragon with poor uvb, it's not good enough for a dragon with no uvb!
 
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