GOUT? Need the Experts

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GOUT? Need the Experts

Postby dolphingirl » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:18 pm

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It has been a while since I have been to BD.org and trust me I researched this topic here. Anyway, I took Norbert, my rescue beardie to the vet and he told me that Norbert has Gout! It started off with his front right foot being swollen. The doc said it was an infection and gave me some medicine to give him. Then I noticed that Norbert was having trouble walking and his left rear leg was giving him trouble and he acted like he was in pain. The vet gave him a shot of calcium and told me to crush up Tums antacids and coat his food with that. I just don't know if this is the right thing to do. I have been giving him baby food because he does not have much of an appetite and I have been adding calcium powder to this. I just don't know what to do. It hurts me to see him in pain. Husbandry is the right set-up. Please help. Has anyone else's beardie suffered from gout and what did you do for this? Sometimes I'm just not sure of what the vet tells me and I need help from the experts.
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Re: GOUT? Need the Experts

Postby Beardednoob » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:21 pm

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Re: GOUT? Need the Experts

Postby Drache613 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:50 am

Hello,

I am sorry to hear that Norbert has gout!
We currently have a dragon who is around 7-8 (pet store dragon) in age who developed gout a couple of years ago. Treatment early on is extremely vital!
Was an initial blood test run earlier on to determine gout before the antibiotics were ever given? The antibiotics made the gout worse, because the kidneys cannot handle antibiotics when they are under stress such as with gout.
How old is Norbert?
I would suggest putting him on liquid calcium instead of powdered calcium because the powder is harder to break down & assimilate in his system. Did the vet not suggest gout medication? He can be treated but, if you wait too long, it will be too late.
I highly recommend getting him on a regime of Allpurinol & Colchicine as soon as possible. I would suggest also, a blood test to see what your beginning Uric acid values are right now, if possible. Remember, he will always have to be on the Allpurinol since this is a disease of the kidneys which is not curable, but, manageable.
How swollen are his fingers, etc? Do you have any pictures of him?
One thing that is extremely important for him is to make sure he gets oral fluids daily. I would get at least 5 mls, daily into him. Keep his protein low to medium to help with kidney function as well.

For now, until you can get him on the medication, you could start him on Dark Cherry extract which helps to break up uric acid crystallization formation, etc. It is not near as effective as the medication, but you could supplement that for him right now.
If you have any questions, just let me know.

Tracie
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Re: GOUT? Need the Experts

Postby dolphingirl » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:01 pm

I don't know how old Norbert is. He was a rescue beardie from a so-called "pet store". His living conditions were HORRIBLE!!!! I don't have any pictures right now but I will get some. The vet did not do any blood work. He just examined him by feel. Where can I find the Allpurinol or Colchicine? Is this something to get from the vet or can I order it on line? Should I get some blood work done before giving this medicine? Is there any fluids other than water that would be good for him? Thank you sooo much for replying, Tracie. I was really hoping you were still here.
Do not meddle in the affairs of a dragon for you are crunchy and good with ketchup
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Re: GOUT? Need the Experts

Postby dolphingirl » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:03 pm

Beardednoob wrote:http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1831&aid=2496
Some reading material for you.
:wink:

Thank you Beardednoob. The information was very helpful. The article told me more than my vet did! Now I'm really worried about Norbert.
Do not meddle in the affairs of a dragon for you are crunchy and good with ketchup
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Re: GOUT? Need the Experts

Postby dolphingirl » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:15 pm

Went to Wal-Mart and found imitation cherry extract. Would that work?
Do not meddle in the affairs of a dragon for you are crunchy and good with ketchup
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Re: GOUT? Need the Experts

Postby Drache613 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:32 pm

Hello,

Do you have any pictures of Norbert for me?
Personally, just to get your initial value of uric acid I would get a blood test done. It is not necessary or really mandatory if the vet already said he had gout, but to confirm it is all. Would the vet prescribe him the meds? If not, I will give you the site that you can purchase them from.
The cherry extract will help him but I highly recommend the medications, as well. They work very well.
Just basically any oral fluids will be fine. Water, diluted juice a couple of times per week, maybe some cranberry, but just all in all, oral fluids.

Let me know what you decide to do, & I will help you through the process.

Tracie
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Re: GOUT? Need the Experts

Postby dolphingirl » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:39 pm

Here are some pictures of Norbert. In the one of the pictures, you can see where his knee is white.

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Yes, I would like to know where I can order the medicine at. I'm worried because although he is eating (drinking) watered down baby food, he won't eat anything else. Also, he is gaping alot. He does it even when I am feeding him. It's almost as if he is asking for something, but I just don't know what.

Thank you for your help. I appreciate all you help.
Do not meddle in the affairs of a dragon for you are crunchy and good with ketchup
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Re: GOUT? Need the Experts

Postby Drache613 » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:58 pm

Hello!

How is Norbert doing today? It is definitely gout.
So, that is up to you as to whether or not you want to do an initial blood test. it is kind of nice to know what the beginning levels are of the uric acid.
The swelling is definitely an indicator. It could be pseudo gout, caused by supplementation, or poor nutritional absorption, but it is most likely full blown gout.
Have you started him on the dark cherry extract yet? You can go ahead & give that to him daily. Did you get powder? If so, what is the strength of the powder, capsules, etc?
Here is the site to order the Allopurinol & Colchicine. The prices are very good, too.
http://www.1meds.com/zyloprim.html

Get the 300mg tablets. Do you have a mortar & pestal or a way to crush up tablet efficiently? Also, go ahead & get some Karo syrup as well.
The Colchicine is only in .06mg so get those also.

Really, the best thing is just water, daily. You can give juice such as cherry juice, or maybe some diluted cranberry juice as well.
He has a good amount of swelling, so, we will treat aggressively for an initial boost for his system. For now, try to get 6-8mls of oral fluids into him daily.

Once you get them, just let me know & I will send mixing instructions & dosing for you.

He will need to be on a relatively low protein diet as well, to stress his kidneys less. Make sure he eats only spring greens & decrease the mustard & collard greens as they are higher in oxalates. Dandelion greens are good too.

Let me know how he is doing.

Tracie
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Re: GOUT? Need the Experts

Postby dolphingirl » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:24 pm

Thanks for the website for the meds. I have ordered them and when they come in I will let you know. For now, I will continue to push the liquids. Thanks!
Do not meddle in the affairs of a dragon for you are crunchy and good with ketchup
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Re: GOUT? Need the Experts

Postby Drache613 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:23 pm

Hello,

You are very welcome!
Please let me know when you get them & we will start him on them immediately. I hope he takes the fluids well, too.
Document everything for me, ok? I appreciate it, thanks.

Tracie
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Re: GOUT? Need the Experts

Postby dolphingirl » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:27 pm

I got some cranberry juice tonight and diluted it with water. Norbert loved it. I'm still worried about him gaping ALOT. He would do this when I was giving him his juice. Do you think this is normal? He would open his mouth and I would drop a small amount on the tip of his tounge. He would drink it up and open wide again. Being very careful not to give him too much at once; don't want him to aspirate on it. Just kind of worried about this behavior. Also, found a link for black cherry extract. Would this work just as well as dark cherry? After really pushing the fluids he seemed to want to raise his head more instead of just sitting there looking pitiful. I wish there was a magic pill, sigh.
Do not meddle in the affairs of a dragon for you are crunchy and good with ketchup
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RIP Norbert. Mommy will always love you.
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Re: GOUT? Need the Experts

Postby Drache613 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:26 pm

Hello,

Great that Norbert liked the cranberry juice.
The gout I believe can cause breathing disturbances or difficulty with temperature regulation. So, a delicate balance is important for him. He can't tolerate getting overheated. What do you keep his basking temperatures at? You may need to lower them just slightly. As with renal problems, dehydration can happen quickly so overheating will lead to dehydration in some cases so you will need to make sure his temperatures are not too hot.
The Black cherry extract is perfect you can get that if you would like to.
Does he look like he might be starting to feel better? How do his eyes look today, are they a little brighter?

Keep me posted on him!

Tracie
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Re: GOUT? Need the Experts

Postby dolphingirl » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:20 pm

I never thought of his temps causing dehydration. The temps have been 95-100. Today I had time to give him some juice before leaving for work and gave him some when I got home. He actually looks like he feels a little better, but the foot is still swollen. His eyes ARE bright! But, he does have pretty eyes. Will update tomorrow. Thanks!
Do not meddle in the affairs of a dragon for you are crunchy and good with ketchup
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RIP Norbert. Mommy will always love you.
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Re: GOUT? Need the Experts

Postby Drache613 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:45 am

Hello,

Well, those temps are fine though, nothing really higher than 100 though, so he doesn't get overheated!
I hope he is feeling better. Does he like the juice? Just keep pushing the fluids. Some nice baths definitely wouldn't hurt him either.
That is good his eyes look bright, they are indicators of how they feel.
I am pulling for Norbert!

Tracie
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