Worries! Spots on belly??

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Worries! Spots on belly??

Postby Elise5422 » Mon May 24, 2010 4:13 am

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HI everybody!

Im a proud owner of 3 young beardies but im a bit worried.. As i'm new at this i had a question.
Is it normal that my bearded dragons have spots on their belly? I got me a new one and when i bought it, its tummy was all white.. now it has spots all over it? Is this normal??
They all have it.. The first 2 i got also developed it.. Is this some kind of desease?
If it is what can i do about it?

As soon as i figure out how to upload pics, i will!!

Pls help, anyone??

XXX
Elise
Proud owner of 3 young bearded dragons

-NALA: leatherback daichu red x blood
-2 wildcolor: Luan (the tiny one), Sota (The big one!)
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Re: Worries! Spots on belly??

Postby KaylaElizabethM » Mon May 24, 2010 5:39 am

Are they like, a black design looking spots?
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Re: Worries! Spots on belly??

Postby Elise5422 » Mon May 24, 2010 5:47 am

yeah.. its like a pattern from a jaguar but in negative?
Is this caused by stress??
Proud owner of 3 young bearded dragons

-NALA: leatherback daichu red x blood
-2 wildcolor: Luan (the tiny one), Sota (The big one!)
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Re: Worries! Spots on belly??

Postby Buggsy » Mon May 24, 2010 5:53 am

Yes, are the tree housed together at all, or can they see each other?

Normally when a new dragon comes to its forever home its a very big change and it stresses them out, It can cause them to go off food, show stress marks, be lethargic. But if they are housed together at all they should be separated. They are solitary creature, and the mere sight of another is sometimes enough to get them stressed enough to want to fight, they are very terratorial!
Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason just isn't clear
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Re: Worries! Spots on belly??

Postby Elise5422 » Mon May 24, 2010 6:02 am

Yeah there all in the same cage
The guy who sold me told me it were ok to put several females togheter?
He also held 4 dragons together (1male, 3females) and they were in perfect health.

My smallest one is really not doing to good either. She's very skinny.. she wasnt eating at all but she's doing better now even tough she's still very tiny compared to the other two (they are supposed to be the same age..). It looks like somethings stuck in her eye as well.. like a bit of sand.. I cant seem to get it out tough and i dont want to stress her even more..
Should i get a vet? i really want her to be ok.
Proud owner of 3 young bearded dragons

-NALA: leatherback daichu red x blood
-2 wildcolor: Luan (the tiny one), Sota (The big one!)
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Re: Worries! Spots on belly??

Postby KaylaElizabethM » Mon May 24, 2010 6:07 am

It sounds like stress marks to me. Atleast about the tummy marks.

Also, you said one of your girls has sand in here eye? How old are they? They aren't supposed to be on sand until atleast 6 months old.
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Re: Worries! Spots on belly??

Postby Buggsy » Mon May 24, 2010 6:09 am

Ok no, as i said dragons are solitary, some times it takes years but then one day they will just snap and you could have an injured or worse, dead dragon. He was being very irresponsible putting a male in with females (unless he was trying to mate, but that should still be done on neutral territory really) It sounds like the little one is being dominated so you really need to get her her own space asap. Just use a large plastic container for now, but im afraid you will need three seperate cages, each with their own heat/UVB, at least 40 Gal breeders. If money is an issue its hard but i would think about returning one.

You mentioned sand, again the breeder has told you incorrectly, and not only can it block up their insides (impaction) but it harbours LOTS of parasites. Its like a giant kitty litter tray. Slate tile, reptile carpet or even kitchen towels for now are much safer, esp since they are babies.

It sounds like the breeder has passed on alot of incorrect info, so perhaps it would be helpful to go over your set up and check on everything?

How old is your dragon?
How long have you had your dragon?
How long is your dragon?
What is the sex of your dragon?
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in?
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank?
Do you use UVB lights?
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb?
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
How old is your UVB bulb?
How close can your dragon get to the UVB?
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage?
What are the basking temps?
What is the cool side temp?
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun?
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps?
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad?
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific.
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)?
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc?
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them?
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)?
Do you bath your dragon? How often?
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath?
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon?
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done?
Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason just isn't clear
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Re: Worries! Spots on belly??

Postby Elise5422 » Mon May 24, 2010 7:42 am

At first; thank you a lot for helping me! .. im really worried and im getting different info from everyone i ask. it seems like everybody has their own theory...

now:

How old is your dragon?
I was told 5 months (i got them as a present so i cant check..) but someone else told me they are far to small for there age. And the one i bought last week is only 2-3 months and is much bigger

Nala: about 2-3 months, +- 17cm
Sota (big one): im told 5months 14cm
Luan: im told 5months, 11cm

How long have you had your dragon?
Nala: 3days
other 2: 2.5 weeks

How long is your dragon?
Nala: 17 cm (6.63 inch)
Sota: 15cm (5.85 inch)
Luan: 11cm (4.24 inch)

What is the sex of your dragon?
Nala: female (pretty sure)
other 2; supposed to be female but dunno what to beleave

What size enclosure do you have your dragon in?
for now: 50cm x 30cm x 35cm (19.89inch x 13.65inch x 11.7inch)
I was told not to buy a big one yet, so they could find their food more easily?

What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank?
'Vita-sand'
http://www.reptilesupply.com/popup_image.php?pID=643

Do you use UVB lights?
Yes

If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb?
coil, compact, fluorescent tube

What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
Zoo med reptisun 5.0 UVB, 14W

How old is your UVB bulb?
2weeks only..

How close can your dragon get to the UVB?
maximum 20cm (7.8inch)

Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage?
yes; its a spot lamp of 60W

What are the basking temps?
42°C (107.6F)

What is the cool side temp?
32°C (89.6F)

Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun?
I have a stick-on thermometer for a general-measuring, for 'space-located-measuring' i just use a general thermomether, like the one u hang on the wall and stick it in to see if the temp is ok

Where exactly are you taking your basking temps?
i have this rocky-reptile-thing i bought and its under the basking spot, so thats where i take the masking temp, and i have a shelter-thing (like a turtle hut) and there i take my cool-side-temp

Do you use a heat rock or heat pad?
no, i was told that was bullshit..

What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific.
crickets mostly.. i fed them buffalo worms untill somebody else told me not to..
I also have these 'bearded dragon pellets'. They are in the enclosure but i've never seen them eating from it. I just keep it there, i thought it wouldnt hurt
and i give them fresh veggies every day.. the small one somethimes eat them, tthe bigger ones i dunno, i guess not

How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)?
I feed them in the morning, like 1hour after i turn their lights on. I also tend to feed them again when its about 5pm.

Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc?
Yes

Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them?
I use Sera Reptimineral C,I use it every time i give them crickets, is that ok? can i over-give them vitamins/calcium?

Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)?
I guess they do..
Sota does, im sure (I saw) . The tiny one i have no idea.. im also kina worried about this
Nala i guess she does (giving the amout of poop i find daily) but again, not sure.

Do you bath your dragon? How often?
Daily, should it be more/less? again i heard lots of different tings. Some say 2x a week, others say 2x a day..

Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath?
They have a shallow water bowl. The tiny one drinks from this, the other ones dont
I mist them about twice a day

Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon?
Yes they are 3dragons living together. I guess not for long anymore :)

Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done?
No not yet.. Should i?



Image Image
This is The tiny one




Image
this is Sota (the 2nd biggest)




Image Image
Nala, the biggest




Here are the spots on Sota and luan (those on Nala seemed to have dissapeared?? or reduced a lot!)
Image Image
Proud owner of 3 young bearded dragons

-NALA: leatherback daichu red x blood
-2 wildcolor: Luan (the tiny one), Sota (The big one!)
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Re: Worries! Spots on belly??

Postby KaylaElizabethM » Mon May 24, 2010 9:26 am

The spots are definitely stress marks.
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Re: Worries! Spots on belly??

Postby Buggsy » Mon May 24, 2010 11:31 pm

Righyto - that is a very small cage, even for one, so i would look into some larger platic tubs for now, until your sorted! Im also afraid to say the sand is a big nono, esp with babies, just use paper towel for now!

Its really good you got a reptisun, but the 5.0 is not strong enough for beardies, see if you can return it for a 10, which is much better (you may have to lie and say you havent turned it on, but its only 2 weeks!) Also i assume you meant a tube? I know it sae box, but using a UVB metre 6-8" away from the tube is best, so they need to be able to get alot closer to it

Temps are looking good, but the thermometer isnt the best. You need a digital one with a long wired probe, or a temp gun mechanics use. Because its such a small cage temps will be difficult to get right so its important your measuring them right!

Pooping will be easier to track when their on their own, but the little one may be impacted from the sand. Try and give her a warm bath and rub her belly from armpit to vent doesnt the right hand side to loosen things up. Or a drop of olive oil works well. The water bowel will just be raising humidity really, a bath a few times a week will keep them hydrated.

Faecals are always good, esp for new dragons, the new one may be infected and she could be passing it onto your other two! Once their separated, you need to get a poop sample from each of them (so you know whos is whos) and get them tested at a herp vet.
Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason just isn't clear
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Re: Worries! Spots on belly??

Postby Elise5422 » Tue May 25, 2010 8:45 am

Today i went to a pet-shop and i asked them for help (i know one of the guys that work there) and he had an unuesed cage in the shop. So the smallest is now there. it has proper lighting and UVB. This is a temporary solution but i think it was the best for now.
The guy said the 2 others might have killed the little one..

I was planning to get a huge cage (min 2m =78.7inch) when i move in september so this was only a temporary cage.
and I will get a stronger UVB this weekend :)

Thank you a lot for advising me! and i hope i can take better care of them in the future..
Ill let you know how they evolve!

XXX
Elise
Proud owner of 3 young bearded dragons

-NALA: leatherback daichu red x blood
-2 wildcolor: Luan (the tiny one), Sota (The big one!)
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Re: Worries! Spots on belly??

Postby BaskingBaby » Tue May 25, 2010 5:12 pm

If you ask any of the dragon breeders on this website, they will tell you even THEY keep all dragons separate unless they are mating them. Almost everyone on this site will tell you to separate them. We have all seen the horrors of keeping them together. Yes, they can seem perfectly fine for months, and out of nowhere someone can end up missing a limb, tail, etc or turn up dead. It IS stressful to house them together, as you are seeing with the stress marks. They may seem to be "cuddling" but really one is trying to be more dominant and soak up the rays while the other sits below and is blocked.

You really need to separate them if you want them to thrive and grow to their full potential. Buggsy gave you some great advice about everything too. Get rid of the sand right away, get a digital probe thermometer, and a good UVB bulb such as ReptiSun 10 or MegaRay.

Good luck! They are very cute.
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Re: Worries! Spots on belly??

Postby Drache613 » Wed May 26, 2010 9:22 pm

Hello,

Since you are outside of the US, you will find the Arcadia D3 12% fluorescent tube bulb easier. It is just as strong as the Reptisun 10 tube bulb is.
Good that you are working on getting the other 2 separated they will do much better once they don't have to compete for food & the best basking area, etc.
That was nice of the petstore to hold onto the smallest one for you. They will keep him alone, correct?

Tracie
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Re: Worries! Spots on belly??

Postby Elise5422 » Sat May 29, 2010 3:55 am

Yeah he's allone in a cage.
Im still looking for a solution for the 2 others.. as i run out of all my money for another terrarium. my parents wont loan me anything so im still looking for a solution.
My mother is telling me to get rid of 2 :cry: pff.. i know its probebly the best but its really hard. as i gor them as a present.. and i really like them.
I may have a friend who will take proper care of the smallest permanently. Its still hard to give it away tough.. but its better for her so it has to be done.

I hope they will be okay.
XXX
Proud owner of 3 young bearded dragons

-NALA: leatherback daichu red x blood
-2 wildcolor: Luan (the tiny one), Sota (The big one!)
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Elise5422
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