My 7-8 year old beardie displaying lifeless behavior

04/27/09

Please HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!
My female Bearded Dragon, about ten years old, has not been accepting food for the past two weeks and has recently become frail and allmost skeleton like with very low energy. He had recently been acting lethargic and very weak. But today i arrived home to find him in an allmost hybernating state, eyes closed, no reaction, limp when being held. At first I freaked out when i came to the conclusion that he had passed away, and ran down to my parents. But upon returning upstairs with my mother, he had moved from where i placed him on the rock to being curled around the food bowl, still limp with his eyes closed. My mother assumed he had entered a dormant state but i when i researched brumation, i found that it usually happened when the dragon turned 1. But can my adult dragon brumate? I am very worried and frantic for answers. i dont think hes dead because he is not cold or stiff, BUT he wont move, open his eyes, and i cant tell if he is breathing or not. Should he be breathing IF he is going through brumation?
Please help me with any information.
Thank you

Hi.
I am sorry that your beardie is not doing well. You may want to see if you can get this moved to the beardie er section, where you may get more help.

I moved this here so it could get more attention.

Sorry to hear about your beardie. This isn't the time of year for brumation to occur, in fact, they should all be awake and active now as it's the breeding season. Adult beardies brumate but it doesn't sound like that could be the case for your beardie.

Can you fill us in on your tank setup by answering these questions? It will help us rule things out quicker. Please try to be as detailed as possible with your answers. In the meantime, I would hold your beardie in your hand and give her a warm bath making sure that her vent area (where she poos) is right down in the water to make sure she is probably hydrated for at least 15 minutes. It would also be a good idea to pick up some chicken and also squash babyfood, use a smaller amt of chicken with a larger portion of squash with a little water or Pedialyte to thin it a little. Use a plastic medicine dropper and put drops on her nose that she will hopefully lick off. You can also help hydrate her with diluted Pedialyte or water the same way.

How long have you had your dragon?
How long is your dragon?
What is the sex of your dragon?
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in?
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank?
Do you use UVB lights?
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb?
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
How old is your UVB bulb?
How close can your dragon get to the UVB?
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage?
What are the basking temps?
What is the cool side temp?
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun?
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps?
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad?
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific.
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)?
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc?
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them?
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)?
Do you bath your dragon? How often?
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath?
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon?
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done?

How long have you had your dragon? 9 years
How long is your dragon? about 1 foot and maybe a half from head to tail
What is the sex of your dragon? female
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? i think 3x11/2
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? white reptile sand
Do you use UVB lights? yes
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? flourescent
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)? terrapet? I dont know
How old is your UVB bulb? about three weeks
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? about 4 inches
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? no
What are the basking temps?
What is the cool side temp? 73
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? digital
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? on his rock where he basks
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? rock
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. i last fed him, asparagus, green beens, cellary, and many crickets ( before he stopped eating)
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? evening
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? no
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? calcium, once a week
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? yes, before he stopped eating
Do you bath your dragon? How often? once every few weeks
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? yes, he has a bowl that he dipss his nose in and gulps
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? no, i only own one
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? no, my parents dont want to have a vet check

She is now having occasional leg movements and i can see her breathing and swallowing even though there are large intervals between breathes. She hasnt opened her eyes and she still lays there and looks like shes sleeping. She is warm, but not as warm as she normally is. i keep the UV light right above her but she eventually moves away from it but i havent actually SEEN her move away. I have done the bath for 15 minutes and she looks a little better but still not awake. Im very worried about her. Ill take any advice i can get.
Keep her in your prayers. Thank you

Awww I am very sorry that your long time BD friend is not doing well. While I truly hope that I am wrong, it may just be time for your BD to move on. You truly should take comfort in knowing that you have given that dragon over 9 years of an obviously very good life!! Again, I do hope that I am wrong though.

That's good that you gave her a bath and she looks a little better. Did you pick up the chicken and squash babyfood to offer to her? If she hasn't eaten in about 2 wks, you need to get something in her right away.

Thanks for answering the questions. Since there are some UVB's that are dangerous and others that are useless, we need you to look at what is printed on the bulb to give us the name brand and % of output it produces. Having the fluorescent about 4" from her is too close. Also need to know what wattage basking bulb you're using. You mentioned that the cool side is 73 but I didn't see a temp for the basking side. You are using a bulb besides the fluorescent for heat, correct? Does your digital thermometer have a long wire & probe end? If not, you're not getting a good reading. If the temps are off, it causes all sorts of health problems including lethargy, loss of appetite, lack of pooping, etc.

Using heat rocks isn't a good idea because they sense heat from the 3rd eye on top of their head so the heat rock could malfunction causing burns on her belly. I suggest you turn that off to prevent that from happening.

Since you had been feeding her in the evening, it's possible that she had a problem digesting the food, the temps help with digestion and they also need about 2 hrs before lights go out to digest properly.

She should be getting calcium with D3 but phosphorus-free 3 days a wk and vitamins 1 day a wk. Would be a good idea to mix a small pinch of calcium in the baby food as I instructed above. Also, here's a site that shows better greens/veggies to feed: http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html By looking at that list, the ones you've been feeding are only for occasional feeding. Greens like mustard, collard, escarole, endive and turnip greens would have a better nutritional value.

Please fill us in on the unanswered questions, we are trying to help her improve but you need to act quickly.

Would it be possible to post a picture of her and her setup?

The weirdest thing happened!!!! I fed him squash with calcium and he ate a little off his nose but didnt open his eyes. but i gave him another bath and upon hitting the luke warm water, he opened his eyes and bolted across the counter. I fed him a couple peices of spinach before he went back to that lifeless stage. Im totally confuse!!!! But at least hes eaten a bit, and i know i can wake him up. i am curently giving a bath. Lets see what happens... I can also se him swalllowing and breathing normally
Thank you for all the wonderful help! Ill keep you posted but he is improving

Hi there, that's great that she licked a little squash and calcium off her nose. Would be a good idea to pick up some chicken baby food and use a small amt of that mixed with the squash to give her a little protein in her diet.

If she bolted out of the bath water, the temp may have been off and that will certainly make them react to it very quickly. Test the water by the inside of your wrist, shouldn't feel hot or cold.

Please DON'T feed spinach again. That is a "questionable" food item on the Beautiful dragons list, it contains a large amt of Vitamin A, oxalates and goitrogens so it depletes the calcium intake. There is also a chance that it could be "toxic" so please don't feed it again.

Good to hear that she is breathing better and more regularly. There are still some issues we need to discuss further and changes that need to be made. Once we get more responses from you, it should hopefully help us get her straightened out. How is she doing now?