Baby beardie in need of help fast!!!

I have an 8 inch hypo bearded dragon that I just bought about two weeks ago. She did great when she first got here but now she's not eating. She's lost a lot of weight and she's not very active at all.

At first I thought maybe she wasn't getting enough calcium but I then I thought other wise since I'd been dusting the crickets with D3 calcium.
I have a 20 gallon tank that houses her and another 6 and 1/2 inch translucent dragon. I have paper towel laid down on the bottom(I thought this would be best so I could monitor the stool and such). And a branch that they usually lay on to bask since its closer to the heat perhaps.

I have an ESU Reptile "Slimline Reptile Fixture with 7% uvb" for the lighting. I'm not sure what the basking light is called but I know it is 75 watts.

There's also a very shallow water dish that I keep about 1/2 inch of water in at all times(always fresh). I chop up kale and shred carrots for the veggies. I also pick some dandelions out of the yard to give them when I spot some(I don't spray for bugs or weeds at all and I always rinse the veggies).

I know the size of crickets to buy. Some are too big when I purchase them but I only select the smaller ones to feed them and give the larger ones to my 12 inch beardie who is in a separate 55 gallon tank. I have stick on thermometers because they were cheaper than the digital ones...I'm not quite sure if that's good or bad. I tried feeding them small meal worms when I first got the beardies but they didn't seem to like them.
Now that my hypo dragon is feeling crummy, so is my other baby dragon. I'm so scared of loosing them.

Please help me! I wanted some advice on what to do before I consulted a vet. I'm on a tight budget because both of my new baby dragons cost $155 each plus the expense of the new tank, heat and lighting.

I've done a lot of reading but I wanted to ask myself.

I'm sorry your dragon isn't doing well. I can't say for sure, but two things that stand out to me are:

Omnomnami":f5692 said:

I have a 20 gallon tank that houses her and another 6 and 1/2 inch translucent dragon.

Click to expand...

I have an ESU Reptile "Slimline Reptile Fixture with 7% uvb" for the lighting.

Click to expand...

When housed together (not recommended), one beardie can become dominant over the other (even if it is not openly apparent). One will grab the food, the other will defer and then become malnourished, among other things. For a beardie, the presence of another beardie can be extremely distressing (even a clutch mate), which can also cause a lack of appetite, and further health issues. Beardies are solitary creatures, who do best in a singular beardie environment.

Additionally, the ESU slimline has been associated with low/poor UVB emissions, which can lead to lack of appetite, slow/stunted growth, eye issues, and worse. How one dragon will react to it can easily differ from another which perhaps has a stronger physical constitution, as it were.

My best advice is to separate these two beardies as soon as you possibly can. Further, turn off the Slimline, and replace it with a ReptiSun 10.0 tube, good price here: http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-fluorescent-bulbs/504983/zoo-med-reptisun-10.0-uvb-bulb.html I do believe the Slimline fixture will house the ReptiSun bulb, but I cannot say for certain.

In the meantime, you can pick up some jarred chicken babyfood, mix with a little water and dab some on beardie's nose, see if she'll lick some. This will get some much needed protein into her. Also, make sure to keep her well hydrated (via baby warm baths), and warm. For night, you can use a ceramic heat emitter, or a rice sock (fill sock with rice, microwave for a time, wrap in a towel and place next to beardie.

I wish I had more advice for you. It sounds as if your beardie is in a bad way. Please keep us posted on her.

The best to you,
Em

I have used the slimline for years with no issues. You can change the bulb and put a reptisun in it. make sure the plastic cover for the light is taken off to allow the uv to get to your lizards.

I will second replacing the ESU with a Reptisun 10.0, and like Redflea suggested, make sure there is no glass, plastic, or screen between the bulb and your beardies. The Reptisun 10.0 can be purchased for as little as $20 online from the website mentioned above, and it will work with the fixture you already have.

There is also a couple things that stand out to me...

Omnomnami":ec030 said:

I also pick some dandelions out of the yard to give them when I spot some(I don't spray for bugs or weeds at all and I always rinse the veggies).

Click to expand...

It is NEVER a good idea to feed wild plants to your beardie, I know you said that you don't spray for bugs or weeds, but you need to think about a few other threats. #1 being your neighbours, you can't always tell what they use in their grass, or the fertilizer or potting soil they use to plant their flower that's packed full of insecticides, All of which can "contaminate" the earth in your yard, and rinsing the plant is not nearly enough.

Omnomnami":ec030 said:

I have stick on thermometers because they were cheaper than the digital ones...I'm not quite sure if that's good or bad.

Click to expand...

These thermometers can be off by as much as 20* at times, and they only measure ambient air temperatures. A digital therm with wired probe can be found at your local Wal-Mart even for under $10. Temps play a huge part in your pets wellness, and it's imperative that you are getting an accurate reading. You need to have a basking spot with SURFACE TEMPS of 100-110* You can obtain these temps by resting the probe on top of the furniture under the light touching the surface, let sit for 45 min for accurate reading.

You also need to be sure the ambient air temps on the "Hot side" of the tank are kept between 90-95* this can be done by placing the probe pretty much anywhere on the hot end and once again leave probe for 45 min before checking temp.

And there should be a gradual temp gradient over to the other side of the tank, with temps on the other end kept between 80-85* so your cold blooded BD can escape the heat and cool off using the temps in the tank to thermoregulate it's body.

If your temps are inaccurate, and your beardies are kept either too hot, or too cool, they will become lethargic, anerexic, and die.


Another issue that can be causing this problem is the added stress of being housed together, the more dominant BD will control the tank, eat first, and get the better basking spot while the other suffers. Not to mention the inevitable aggression issues they will one day soon have towards each other, you may not even know it's happening until one day you come home from work and one of your pets is missing a limb, tail, or worse...


This sounds like a husbandry issue to me for both of these dragons, just meaning that the tank set up could be better. As far as consulting your vet, I think it would be a great idea to get fresh stool samples from each dragon and have them tested for intestinal parasites. This can be done fairly cheap and will rule out any other possible reasons for your dragons being lethargic right now.

If you are on a tight budget, focus on a proper thermometer and get the temps sorted out first. the UVB light is not great, but I think should take a second priority here.

Here's what you need to do right away, starting today!

- Get the temps set up! remember 100-110 basking spot, 90-95 hot end, 80-85 cool end
-Daily baths in warm water for 20 min. If they defecate in the water, drain and refill. This will help keep them hydrated as they are able to absorb water through their vent.
- As suggested already, you need to make sure they are eating. Turkey/Chicken baby food is perfect for this, you can also mix it with some water or pedialite for hydration, sprinkle some of your calcium with D3 in there, and if you have a blender you can even add a few crickets and fresh veggies.
- If they are not eating on their own, and wont lick the baby food off their nose, you will need to force feed by syringe or medicine dropper.

Sorry for the long post! I really hope this helps, and please let us know if there is anything you still aren't sure of, or anything I wasn't clean on, Hopefully we can get your little pets feeling better soon!

I'll get a new tank for her today as well as the light and food. Thanks for your help, I'll be sure to check back and tell you how she's doing.

I found some stool in her new tank so she must be eating a little bit of crickets. The stool looks fine and is firm. I made an appointment with the vet to get it checked for parasites just in case. She seems a lot happier in her new tank. Maybe that was the major problem all along. Thanks everyone!

I'll let you know a bit later if things change.

I know Embee and I both threw a lot of info at you there and it might have been hard to go through some of it.... The temps are the most important part of your set up! Please be sure you are getting accurate readings with a proper gauge.

Yes that was a lot to handle. Haha. But thank you! It was very good advice.

I ordered three ReptiSun 10.0 bulbs with fixtures. One for the juvenile, one for the hypo and another for the translucent. They should be here within a week. I also bought a couple digital thermometers from the same site as the lights I purchased, petmountain.com.

I'm going over my budget but it's worth it. I love my dragons and I'll do anything to keep them healthy and happy.

Thanks again! I'll keep you posted on little Rhark (the hypo) and I'll inform you all once I get my tanks set up with the new lights and such.

Wow, that is great to hear! Good for you Omnomnami!

I'll also get some pics up of the babies. My mother used to breed beardies and sell them to local people and that's what these two babies will be for.
Just need to learn all I can about them.

Well you found the right place to do just that! :study:

Looks like you're in good hands here, Omnomnami!

Hope your beardie is feeling much better soon, and yes, do keep us posted... we LOVE pics! :mrgreen:

The best,
Em

Rhark licked a bit of chicken baby food blended with crickets and calcium dust from my finger but just a couple licks then she ran away. I watched her eat a cricket but then I offered her another one and she wasn't interested in eating any more. Should I start force feeding her or wait a little while longer?

Also, what should I do about lighting in the mean time while my new lights are being shipped?

What is the best type of bugs to feed them? I have the small crickets, small meal worms and someone from the pet store mentioned fly larva...is that good or bad for babies?

Should I keep offering veggies like kale and shredded carrots?

Oh, I also noticed that she pooped again...and so did the male translucent. They both have runny waste that is brown. Maybe it could be parasites?

Omnomnami":90226 said:

Rhark licked a bit of chicken baby food blended with crickets and calcium dust from my finger but just a couple licks then she ran away. I watched her eat a cricket but then I offered her another one and she wasn't interested in eating any more. Should I start force feeding her or wait a little while longer?

Click to expand...

I would say keep offering, and keep trying the baby food. That she's eating at all is encouraging. Keep her well hydrated and warm. I imagine once in her own enclosure for a while, and given some time under the ReptiSun tube, she'll gradually perk up. I can't say for sure of course, as babies are so particular in their needs, but getting "just the right environment" can really turn things around.

In the meantime, I think I will go ahead and get a moderator to come and look into your situation. If she feels it's necessary, she can run you through the "art" of syringe feeding.

Also, what should I do about lighting in the mean time while my new lights are being shipped?

Click to expand...

Well, the usual advice is to turn off the Slimline, and wait. Keep the basking lights going. It's ok for beardies to be without UVB for a few days as the general rule is, better no UVB (temporarily) then poor UVB.

What is the best type of bugs to feed them? I have the small crickets, small meal worms and someone from the pet store mentioned fly larva...is that good or bad for babies?

Click to expand...

Crickets are fine, but I would avoid mealworms as they don't offer much nutrition and their hard chitin shell presents an impaction risk. The "fly larva" that people are mentioning are referred to as "phoenix worms" http://www.phoenixworms.com and they are wonderful, especially for babies and ESPECIALLY for struggling babies. They contain tons of natural calcium, and have an excellent calcium/phosphorus balance. They are very nutritious and contain natural lauric acid which contains antimocrobial qualities i.e., they are a good defense against coccidia (parasites). We feed a combo of crickets and phoenix worms, and at a time when our beardie was struggling with appetite, PWs were a real help (most beardies LOVE them). They are very small, mind you. Our beardie has been eating the medium size since she was 6 inches, and at 9 inches, we're getting ready to move on to the large.

Should I keep offering veggies like kale and shredded carrots?

Click to expand...

Do continue to offer veggies, although Kale is more of an occasional feeder. Mustard greens and collards offer better nutrition. Here is a link to an excellent food list (do's and Don'ts): http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html.

Oh, I also noticed that she pooped again...and so did the male translucent. They both have runny waste that is brown. Maybe it could be parasites?

Click to expand...

Ok, when you say "runny" are you referring to the poop itself, or is the pooped encased in liquid? If it's the former, I would certainly look into a having a fecal done if for no other reason, than to rule it out. If the latter, that sounds like a normal poop of a well hydrated beardie. Beardies have parasites surely, but it's matter of keeping them to manageable levels. Good husbandry being a key part of that process.

Hope that's a help to you! Please keep us posted on your dragon (s).

The best,
Em

I put word into moderator, Diane (diamc) for you.