Septic Arthritis. LAST UPDATE

How is Littlefoot doing today?
Sometimes they can develop issues with bones simply from genetics. It doesn't appear she has
any metabolic bone problems but switching to a higher UVB output light will definitely help her
out. I'm glad to hear she has been active & eating.
The shots are challenging to give so giving them early in the day before she is completely awake
will probably be easier. The injection site usually stings which is why she hissed. She is only
supposed to be on the injections for a couple of weeks?
Overall, I would say she is doing pretty well now?
I had forgotten you were in Canada also, how is the weather doing?

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Hi Tracie,

The vet also did not suspect metabolic bone issues.

I was surprised and relieved that there was no infection showing in her blood. So maybe this is a genetic case, but the breeder that I got her from in Manitoba did not have any history with the parental dragons.

The shots are nerve wrecking...my heart was pounding so hard. Littlefoot was good, I got her in the morning before her lights went on and wrapped her head so she could not see light. I gave her the injection and thankfully she did not even flinch. I find pulling back on the plunger to check for blood to be the most challenging. However, once I took that blanket off her head she took off like a rocket and was a little shaky/wobbly for a few seconds. I don't think she knew what hit her poor thing. I dread the though of doing this every second day for who knows how long. I admit to developing the shakes after it was all said and done too. Adrenaline rush...ha ha. I will count all the syringes that were pre-loaded for me, but I know for sure it is definitely more that two weeks worth. Probably closer to 4-6 weeks. Also further the Metacam was once a day for three days and then every second day, I probably have about another 7 doses left.

I tried to find plain soy yogurt in town today....and found nothing, so I hope her system can handle all the antibiotics. I am bathing daily and trying to syringe feed her a variety of veg/fruit concoctions to help boost her hydration and immune system further. As she WILL NOT eat enough greens on her own, left to her own devices. However, she is doing/eating well. Yesterday she had 12 super worms. So happy her appetite is still up, she continues to bask, and is quite active out of her viv. Wants to run around and explore, so these are all good signs.

Weather here....it's not bad. Got pretty cool overnight pretty quickly, but the sun is mostly shining and temps during the day are around 59 F - 68 F. However in the evening it gets close to freezing.I have turned the heat on in the lizard room, so it does not get too cool overnight, especially since Littlefoot has some health concerns, so their vivs never get below 69 F 70 F.

Sorry to hear about your accident, it must have been traumatic, I hope you're healing well ! Good that you've been diligent about the lighting. Keep in mind that tile, although widely used, is really unnatural and can add to the pain in any type of joint problem. I would cover it up ASAP.


It's widely known that people who work at places with concrete floors , which is hard like tile flooring, can develop a host of joint problems.

https://healthfully.com/health-caused-l ... 63838.html

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Hello AHBD,

I totally hear what you are saying about the tile. I know when setting up these vivs I struggled with trying to find the best substrate for them. Sand.... impaction risk, out, Reptile Carpet....smelly, out, Newspaper....aesthetically unpleasing, out. I chose tile cause it was super easy to clean, and I could sanitize it easily in the dishwasher. I like having it, but I think I will take you up on your advice. I can by some pretty cheap non-adhesive, cushy liner from the dollar store, so for her that would probably be much better.

On it...like white on rice...LOL, I will get some today.

Thanks Again.

I use tile as well and have found that putting some fleece down over part or all of the tile offers a good amount of cushion, provides ability to burrow a bit, and is durable even after several washes.

You're welcome, and yes, anything that can be potentially helpful to her is worth giving a try.

Hello,

How is Littlefoot doing today?
I love the look of tile also, & it is very safe, too. Fleece is great to use with it & is so soft.
Also, non adhesive shelf liner is great too, easy to keep clean. There are a lot of various
prints, too. Felt is an option too, easy to wash also & wears well over time, like the fleece.
I am glad that she doesn't seem to have metabolic bone disease. I am attributing a lot of
the health problems today to degraded genetics unfortunately.
I'm sorry about your accident too, how horrible! That is so hard to get back on your feet
after something of that magnitude.
It is very nerve wracking to give a reptile an injection! At least you made it through it. I
think over time it will get easier. I agree, the hardest part is drawing back to make sure
you didn't hit a vein. Poor girl, but it sounds like she handled it well.
Keep us updated on her.

Tracie

thanks all of you for your concern over my accident. Let me tell you I am a lover of animals, but horses are no longer my best friends. Seeing them spooked even on T.V. is the worst 30 second horror film you can imagine....besides that I am still healing one of the bones in the shoulder is not quite fused together despite having the plate placed, but I will know more on the 31st...fingers crossed.

So an update...the vet was not expecting this at all, and I am not sure where this came from either. The culture and sensitivity results revealed a staph infection! Staph...what? there was no injury to her outside ever. Although the vet did say it could have come from her gut, from her mouth, and infection from anywhere else in her body that just happened to land on that joint. She is not sure what caused this, but the great news is the type of Staph is very, very open to be treated by all sorts of antibiotics. Hoping she gets well and infection free. Her joint will never be the same, but I do not care as long as she is infection free. Also because she is doing so well so far, I am now able to give the injections once every 72 hours, instead of 48. Littlefoot has a check up November 1st and I will know more then. But so far so good, fingers double crossed.

The only thing I noticed now that she is weight bearing is that when she is walking she is shaky. I can only describe it as a Parkinsons effect. Not sure if this is cause it is sore...or if she is trying to balance on three good feet. If I hold her back end and she is walking it goes away. When she is still it is also non existent. I am guessing this will be a long term effect due to joint damage now.

Hello,

Wow, that is very interesting, staff infection? I have heard of that in beardies, but it isn't a
real common thing to happen. I am not sure how on earth that would have found its way into
her system. Food contamination possibly, or an insect, just not sure.
Hopefully the antibiotic injections will help her out a lot. I'm glad that you can decrease on
the frequency now. That particular joint most likely will have some lasting damage though,
unfortunately. If it all gets cleared out then she should be as good as new. At least her spirits
are good through all of this! Bless her!
So you had an entanglement with a horse? Oh geez, there are plenty of horror stories there. I
have known a few people who had terrible accidents. I hope your shoulder heals up. I'm sure
that there has been a good amount of pain, too! Does that mean you no longer have a horse, did
you rehome him?

Keep us updated on everything & your Littlefoot girl.

Tracie

I have been thinking about this staph thing all weekend. I am sure it is not the bugs, I raise my own dubia and they get other bugs rarely, but through someone I have been buying from for years.

Then it hit me...I am not sure how this happened or when. In August I was bathing her, the very tip of her tail (3/16 or 4/16 of an inch) fell off. I was horrified, I had no idea she had even injured it. It was not bleeding, it was not oozing, it was not swollen. It was just a dry piece that had come off if the bath. When I inspected it, it already looked healed/closed, but for about 2 weeks I kept applying triple spectrum antibacterial cream in it. She never developed any infection, rot, or anything on that tail, and so I figured it was an old injury of some sort, and totally forgot about it. Now I am thinking this is the only way staph could have been introduced into her system at all.

My cages are really clean, I always pick up poop, and use a 50/50 vinegar solution, and once a year dismantle everything and sanitize in the dishwasher cycle. I am now looking at maybe getting F10, but am worried about residue, if it is at all harmful collectively over time. Also looking at a steamer as this may be the safer route.

Yesterday was a bad needle day, she decided to run with it. I was ready for such an event, but it was still a crazy moment. The swelling is definitely going down now, and she is starting to weight bear a lot more on the joint. My hope is to get rid of this for good.

The horse incident happened on vacation in Costa Rica in May for a friends wedding. Twelve of us were going on a horse back tour to the falls. I did not make it very far, in fact I was only on the horse for about 3 minutes. I am no sure why, but my horse suddenly started walking backwards, I snapped the reign and it still continued to walk backwards. The handlers noticed this and came towards the horse to stop it, but instead it started running backwards and reared up twice. The horse continued to jog backwards toward a cliff. I jumped off and landed with my back to the ground (I was ok at this time). No sooner do I land, and what seemed like slow motion, I saw the horse also loose his footing, and knew that I was going to likely die. The horse rear end fell directly on to my chest, the horse got up quickly, ran off, and I do not remember too much for a short period of time (no head injury, just shock or something), but the next thing I know I am on all fours, gasping for air, thinking Holy crap, I am going to die here. I didn't, the wind was just knocked out of me. However, as soon as I stood up, I knew I was not OK. Nobody believed that I was as injured as I was as I was not screaming or crying (in their words). It took 45 minutes down a forestry service road and another 15 through he city to get to the nearest hospital. Long story short, I had two broken areas on the clavicle (requiring plate surgery), two fractures on the scapula, three broken ribs at the cervical spine on the right side, and at least 1 broken rib at the thoracic spine with nerve damage. It was the longest plane ride home, with no painkillers. At this time, all the fractures are not quite healed, the scapula can take 1-2 years to heal completely, the clavicle is still not fused on the distal end, and at times I am still dealing with the nerve damage, but I am here very luckily.

Hello,

WOW, I am so glad you are alright, what a horrendous situation to have been in. I hate to
ask....did the horse make it then, without injury? I guess you will probably never ride again.
Good grief, that is terrible luck.
That is a good chance of where the bacteria could have gotten in. How strange, but, it does
happen. Poor thing! Staph is such an awful infection, too. I hope things are improving & it
sounds like they are. She started running with the needle still in? I'm glad her swelling is going
down then, that's excellent news. Maybe it isn't hurting her as much now either!
A steamer is always the safest, but, the F10 is highly effective & shouldn't really leave much of
any residue or become toxic. The vinegar solution is excellent, too. Your cleaning shouldn't
be a problem though, it was just bad luck somehow.
Keep us posted on how she is doing.

Tracie

UPDATE Vet Visit November 1

The vet was very happy with Littlefoot's progress. Her swelling had gone down significantly, and her energy is quite high. Not sure if she has any weight loss though. The original vet scale had her at 435 grams (October 10), at weigh in this time (at the vet) 425 grams. However, at home, I have never had her weight register as high as 435 grams so the vet scale originally may have been off. 2 weeks ago on my home scale Littlefoot was 425 grams, one week ago she was 415 grams and yesterday she was 424/425 grams. So she seems to fluctuate quite a bit. I do not know of this is normal as to be honest I have not consistently checked her weight, but will be doing weekly weigh-ins on all my lizards from now on.

She still has to be on that horrible injectable antibiotic (ceftazidime), last injection was horrific, 4 stabs and quite a bit of struggle and stress for me and her. She is definitely on to me now. She will be totally asleep, will lift her head and drop it to test, then as soon as I touch her front leg she flinches and scurries. Anyway, she has to be on this until December 12th, at least, then she goes for another x-ray. Fingers crossed. The vet did say i could try another antibiotic by mouth, but she also said the injectable (ceftazidime) was the best one, so I decided to stick to it.

However, there is some guarded bad news. The vet has not had a dragon live through a septic arthritis infection before. She did say that the cases she has seen have been in the much later stages than mine where the infection was progressed to the point of the foot looking like "club foot". She is worried that once we stop the antibiotics, the infection will just come back but she did say also that the dragons previously seen had also lost all joint movement, and that the owners did not seem as dedicated to the care and attention as I am. So there is that. Right now, things are good, I hope they continue to be good, I hope this infection can be wiped out.

I have been unsuccessful in finding plain soy yogurt. What would be better to give for immune boost, acidophilus or bee pollen? Or both. How much should I be giving and how often? any other pointers or tips?

Hello,

That does sound like some progress. I'm sure the shots are tedious, poor girl! I bet she has
really figured out when you are giving her a shot!
I agree, most of the time, the condition has gotten to the point of it not really being
able to be treated which is why a lot of them don't make it. You got it diagnosed quickly
which gives her a good chance at recovery.
It's a great sign she is much more energetic & that the swelling has gone down so much in
a relatively short amount of time.
You can definitely give bee pollen or non dairy acidophilus for an immune system boost.

Let us know how Littlefoot is doing.

Tracie

Well...things are just not good for me or my lizards. I thought Littlefoot was out of the woods. She had been doing great. Stiil on the last doses of Ceftz...and then just today...I noticed now that her right front foot is swollen. I have no idea what is going on. She does have a black scale or maybe a small wound on the foot pad...but I have no idea where she got that. There is nothing sharp in her viv...I have her on soft microfleece for substrate. I clean it everytime I see poop. Warm water wash with a little bleach. Well rinsed. I am at a loss. Eating well on supers...dubia...wax...fresh veggies everyday...collared...endive...bok choy...squash. I even added a little bee pollen the last couple weeks. Multivit 2 times per week. Calcium 3 times per week. Proper UV...basking temps 100...cool side 75. 75 gallon tank.

She was supposed to go for her final x rays on Wednesday...but I guess this will now be a totally different trip. I really tried so hard. Never missed an injection since mid October. Held her daily. After 10 (Emmalee was 10...Littlefoot is 6.5) years of trouble free keeping I have been losing...terribly. This is likely my second loss this year...my other dragon is also sick with pneumonia.

My husbandry and diet are pretty much flawless and checked daily. I even posted to see if anyone could find flaws in my husbandry but nothing stood out as being hurtful.

I think this is it for me. As much as I love keeping them...I just seem now to be a detriment to them. I am so lost. I do not think I am very good keeper. For what ever reason I cannot believe that all this is a coincidence. My reptile days are over. I am so torn and hurt.

Thanks to all of you once again. Apologiesfor such a horrible update to this post. I really thought this was going to be a happier outcome.

Aw, I'm sorry to hear about this setback. How frustrating for you ! Still, this may be something else that can be treated, she did respond to the treatment thus far. Maybe THIS one is a gout flare up. Or just more stubborn S.A.

How is the dragon with the R.I ? Still doing O.K. ? Remember that if they are still active + eating they can still recover from what they have. And you are def. not a bad owner, there are dragons that drop dead with very little warning from things like liver or kidney failure or cancer. Others develop aneurysms + other odd illnesses even with the best care. So don't blame yourself. Maybe things will still turn out alright !

Thanks ABHD, I think I am going crazy here...lol.

I am still thinking that I may not get another dragon after all of this. It is hard, especially when I had three go down at once. It has been difficult for me not to believe that I am doing something wrong at this point. I keep trying to tell myself that I was trouble free for 10 years, not even so much as dealing with a cut or scrape, and now I have had all this.

So on the 12th, which was supposed to be her final x-ray she went in, and I got them to x-ray the newly offending foot as well. Let's start with good news. The original foot looks really good, she is "not out of the woods" yet, but the vet was really surprised at how well the leg healed. She even said that it looks like the bone was repairing itself in that area. There is still some deformity to the outside of her ankle, it is hard and not as tapered as her other leg. The vet though this was likely due to the bony changes that occurred. I have to keep her on the Ceftazidime for a couple more weeks and then recheck at the end of December. Good news 2 - the recent area of swelling has not affected the bones.

Bad News - at least from my point of view is that there were some "soft tissue changes", and there is definitely swelling. The swelling is hard (not soft or squishy), very much like the original foot. There is definitely a scab/wound on the bottom of that foot. So she scraped it somehow, maybe when she was running around on Sunday out of her viv (I have no clue). Never the less, my ultimate concern for her is as follows: how could she possibly develop swelling so quickly like seriously overnight?, why is it swelling in the first place?, I mean she is still on IM antibiotics? I was soaking her as soon as I saw that foot and applying triple antibiotic cream. However, when I went to the vet she prescribed some Flamazine to use along with the Betadine soaks. I am soaking her foot in Betadine solution twice a day for 10-15 min while applying the Flamazine. She wants to treat this topically, but Littlefoot is still also on IM.

In October, when Littlefoot was first diagnosed with this Septic Arthritis, we did a full blood panel...all normal. the culture and sensitivity showed that he infection was Staph, but highly treatable. So back then, nothing pointed to any serious medical issue for her. Now with this new development, I am wondering if there isn't something else going on, something that cannot be detected through blood work, fecals or x-rays. I am wondering why her immune systems is so bad that she cannot even fight off a little would 2-3 ml in size on her own? I would imagine that if staph was in her blood, by this point she should be much, much sicker, but still.

Her weight varies a lot, she is my highest fluctuating dragon. back when this started she averaged between 415 to 435 grams. Now she averages between 439 to 480 grams. So she fluctuates a lot, but she is still within her realm of normal. She was carrying a lot of poop at 480 :wink: . She is pooping normal, sometimes in small amounts, sometimes larger, but all looking good. She is really well hydrated leaving puddle of water with the poop while still producing very nice white urates. She at this point is still eating, a little less than before, but it is December, and I am tying to keep her from shutting down for Winter, so I think that would be normal. She moves about in her hobbled way, and it strong. So all those things are great, but these constant infections do worry me.

Littlefoot went in for a check up yesterday. Her septic arthritis, is not longer septic. This is super news. The bones are now back together, and she is left with a little ankle deformity or swelling to that area. She walks a little funny now, but other that that, this incident has resolved. Crossing my fingers that this does not happen again.

As for the front right foot, after two weeks of soaking and Flamazine, the swelled area was still there. Not as large but still there. So the vet took her to the back, soaked her foot, and 20 minutes came out to show me what she had found. There was a cyst, about 5 mm by 4mm, reddish/brown in color, well formed, not smelly. She said it did not seem to bother her to remove it and it was easily done with a needle. She is not sure what it was...keratin...parasitic. Well anyway, now she has a hole in her foot, which has been irrigated with Betadine and packed with a Flamazine bandage, and I am to have her rechecked on Thursday.

So poor Littlefoot is not quite well yet, but this was not another septic arthritis, or even an infection, so all this is great news.