Hello everybody -- here's Ash

Hello everyone, my name is Matt and I never thought I would be on a forum called BeardedDragon.org (I do find lizards fascinating, but was always partial to turtles and tortoises and, as a first grade teacher, I was considering one as a class pet until I read up and found that they can be pretty high-maintenance and somewhat prone to sickness.)

Anyway, after my wife sent me an endearing video of an excited beardie scrambling across the floor to eat blueberries (maybe you've seen it?), I started becoming curious... and I was sold when I found out that beardies are one of the pets supported by a great organization called https://www.petsintheclassroom.org/ which I used to get major discounts/grants for mine.

Anyway, I have it set up in a 20 gal starter tank in my classroom, and have tentatively named it Ash (partly due to its beautiful coloration, although it will get a little darker after shedding... but also because it is gender-neutral and I have not yet been able to determine the sex of it due to young age, and it doesn't hurt that the name is easy and phonetic, easy for the kids to say and to spell when I have them write about him/her.)


I do have some questions, not sure if this post is the best place to introduce them, but here goes:

1) Where can I find a habitat larger than 40 gallon? (for if/when it outgrows this one; I can get a 40 gal at the local Petco, but that seems about the largest they carry, and just wondering if I might need larger)

2) I have seen/read a lot of differing thoughts on flooring/substrate. I would like something a little more enjoyable than paper towels / newspaper (it also seems like those could slide around on the glass, and maybe get shredded by claws)... right now I have reptile carpet that came with the starter kit, but I'm not going to like it for very long... crickets can get underneath, and I've heard it is somewhat smelly / difficult to clean.

The tank they were in at Petco used sand, which looked easy enough to clean and the beardies seemed to like it well enough, but I have read enough stories about impaction to sufficiently scare me away from any sand-like substrate. So... tile? If anybody uses tile, let me know how you do it (ie. do you secure it to the bottom in any way, or let it lie loose? Is there a certain kind that works best?)

3) How much food (I have crickets, mealworms, collard greens, and come commercial pellet foods that came with the kit) should I be feeding a beardie that is about 4 months old and 10" total length, and at what frequency/intervals?

Thanks!

Our first beardie came from the high school - Khloe brought Troggy home as a summer babysitting job- we ended up keeping her as the teacher didnt really want her anymore- anyway- please be aware of the kids in the classroom w/ your dragon- Khloe caught on many occasions the boys in the classroom trying to stick pencils into the ears of Troggy- they were not very nice to her - Troggy was very unhappy in that tank they had her in a small 20 gallon tank w/ a red light on at nite and lights coming on at 2 am- w/ them going off at 2 pm - they are actually a day time animal not nocturnal - we had her for another 3 years and she passed last March- dont know what from we are thinking of old age - I did not have a clue as how to take care of a bearded dragon and learned a lot from researching on the internet- I never found this site until after she died- we ended up getting a 50 gal reptile tank from Petsmart and went from there - she had the lighting etc - but we got rid of the sand and went to a sand mat w / her -- needless to say she was so much happier in the 50 gal tank but we also brought her out and had her in the LR w / us most every day -- so for 3 years I would say she was better off and seemed so much happier- after she passed we Khloe and I were heartbroken - we really became so attached to her- so w/ that being said we ended up getting a 3 month old named Hiccup and he is now almost 8 months old - we have since changed out the sand mat for tile from Hope Depot which is so much easier to clean - my husband cut the tiles to fit the tank so we can easily remove them when necessary-- please be aware of the kids in your class room when around the dragon and they are not trying to stick pencil erasers into its ears-- or anything else that would harm the little one-- good luck

Karrie

Really disappointing to hear about that teacher... :shock: Both the lack of supervision/control, as well as the "giving up" on a pet (we just had one teacher do that with a corn snake... she simply abandoned it in her room when she was let go at the end of the year. :x )

re: ensuring kids are safe and respectful...

Absolutely. I used to teach middle schoolers and, quite honestly, I don't think I would ever feel secure having a class pet with those students (maybe at a different school, but not the one where I teach)... they were simply not responsible or respectful of things.

But you'd be surprised how mature and respectful 6-year-olds can be (yes, I trust my first graders with jobs and materials that I would not allow my 11-13 year olds to do, because they proved they couldn't handle it.)

The first thing we are going to do tomorrow (they haven't met it in person yet) is to go over the rules/procedures... I am going to show them this picture to talk about the ear holes (mostly to point out how large they are and thus, yes, the beardie can hear, and they can't get too loud!) but also rules about observation (not tapping on the tank, etc.)

There is no way they would be able to put pencils in the ears, because it will remain in the tank (with screen on top)... only time the viv will be open is when I allow them to drop some food (such as crickets) in from the top, or maybe (eventually) I will hold it in my hand and allow them to pet it (but I am a bit nervous about that, even though my beardie has already been very docile, never showing any signs of aggression despite being uneasy after being transferred to its new home. But I do know they have razor-sharp teeth, and I would also be worried about dropping... maybe if I hold it myself, they can cautiously approach it for a little petting?)

PS. As for lights/interruptions... fortunately, we don't have that at my school... it is dark all night. I have set up the UVB and basking lamp on a timer outlet, currently set to turn on at 6:30 am and turn off at 6:30 pm.

My bigger concern is regulating temperature in the room, because I can only set the thermostat to heat or cool... not both to regulate a specific temp (and whether I need to go in on weekends to feed it, or if it can go for two consecutive days if given enough food), but with cooler weather coming soon, it will be easy to simply set the heater at about 69 at night (otherwise... I also have a heating pad attached to the back of the tank. Not sure whether to use it or not.)


Also... I will be getting a larger tank (hence the question at the end of my post); I considered getting a bigger one right off the bat (and might go buy a 40 gal one to keep in waiting since it is currently half off, and not sure if that is only a temporary sale), but the grant/coupon I received from Pets in the Classroom covered a free 20 gal long kit, but not any other tank... I will definitely upgrade within the next 5 or 6 months.

I am assuming he is very young- he will need to be fed everyday 2-3 times per day live crickets or dubia roaches- I switched to roaches as my reptile vet suggested it - I guess crickets can give them worms-? but anyway Hiccup liked the roaches better than the crickets- that is their main source of food as they need the protein - you will find he will not eat much vegies like mustards, collards, parsely, etc as they dont start eating more of that till they are older- also they he/ she will need calcium 5 days a week - dusting the crickets - I put mine in a ziploc bag shake and feed - w/ vitamins dusted 2 times per week - feeding only during the week and not at all on the weekends is not good- he/ she is growing and they usually eat quite a bit - on the left side of this screen is a list of things you need for your dragon-- proper lighting is essential as they can end up very sick if they dont have it! The food you got w/ your kit is it live or canned? Live crickets and dubias are the best -- sand is terrible as it can cause impaction -- I switched to tile - it is a courser surface not smooth- floor liner or vinyl has also been recommended I believe-- anything that he can not eat w/ the live bugs -- sand is the worst! If the tile is cut to the tank size it should stay in place I think my husband stuck some two sided tape under but for the most part it does not move-- dubia roaches are not sold in Pet Smart or Petco - they are sold in your private stores that carry reptiles - my store in St Cloud, MN cant keep up so I have resorted to ordering on line from dubiaroaches.com and they are out of Kansas - they have very fast shipping and I usually get my order in two days- you can find lots of things on their website that you can feed them him just certain stuff they only can have at certain ages -- like the meal worms horn worms super worms- I have not fed any meal worms to Hiccup as of yet only super and like 2 -3 - 2 horn worms per day- the meal worms have a harder shell on them I think and are harder to digest for the little ones-- I feed him nutri grubs and butter worms - the butter worms only 2-3 and as many as nutri grubs as he can eat and they have lots of calcium so they dont need to be dusted but they are very small- the dubias are easier to keep as they can stay in their container they come in and I feed them carrots- very easy - crickets are a pain in the neck and stink to high heaven! Just some suggestions but I hope this helps and there are plenty of people on here that can also help you w/ other questions-- good luck w/ Ash- you need to handle him / her as much as possible or they will not like being held- when we first got Hiccup he would flare up at us hiss and he bit Khloe several times but not real hard and never drew blood- he is now 8 months old does none of that anymore as we kept handling him and sticking our hands in his tank so he got used to us -- that is what makes a good beardie -- lots of attention and lots of love -

Karrie

I forgot to mention the lighting and basking temps --- I have basking side for Hiccup at 90-106- depends on weather and the temp of the room -- it will make a difference - cool side of tank is around 78-80-- basking will help digest food - I have a Repti Sun T10 UVB and in side the tank he sits on his platform/cave and hes around 6" from the light- crucial to him / her -- that will prevent MVB- muscle deform- if you need to buy a heat emitter ceramic just heat no light you can get that from Pet Smart - Petco etc- I bought one for Troggy and use it during the winter months to keep tank warm on basking side and it helps w/ the basking light- it stays on all the time during the winter only thing I shut off are the lights and they too come on around 7 am and off at 7 pm- Hiccup is in my office as I work from home so he has company all the time listening to me talk etc...........

Thanks for the tips... I have a UVB 10, but it is a coil type and mounted above screen (I have read on this forum that tube-type is better, and mounted in tank)... I plan on upgrading tank soon, and when I do I will get the tube-type ReptiSun 10 in there.

The basking lamp may or may not be sufficient... I figured it couldn't hurt to run the heat pad up near the heat lamp/basking area to add a little warmth. Only thing is my mopani wood does not stand very high to get closer to the lamp, so looks like I need another perch, as well.


As for food... the commercial stuff is pellets mixed with some freeze-dried grubs (crickets and mealworms), blueberries, and rose petals, but I am mostly feeding live insects. I tried to find dubia roaches since I had read about them, but can't locate a source anywhere near me, so the only local options, really, are crickets and mealworms (they are live, at least, and I have some calcium to dust them with)... I did feed some greens just as a curiosity/supplement (I did read you should give those before insects because they prefer the protein sources, and it sounds like those insects should make up 75% of their diet when young.)

I definitely want to avoid MBD... are there any early warning signs I can look out for? I am feeding calcium, trying to ensure UVB, but want to keep my eye out in case the UV is not sufficient...

(PS. For now, I have been going in daily on the weekend to check on it and for feeding purposes, but my coworker who has a lot of animals, including a leopard gecko, says it is fine without going in, so... not sure how much similarity or not)

MVB is hard to tell - I think if you notice him/ her being lethargic and not moving very well is a sign - Cooperdragon and Tracie on here are moderators and can give you better advice - you can always PM on here w/ your concerns- just click on their name and it will pop up w/ their email etc and you can email them - Tracie seems to be the better source for health issues but Cooperdragon can help as well -- geckos are different from dragons and when are little they need to eat or they get skinny and sickly-- usually I think its the back legs that are affected first but I am not sure!! Well like I said the website I gave for dubias etc is a good one-- You wont be able to tell age until around 6 months or so unless you have a very good reptile vet or know someone who owns and breeds bearded dragons - a breeder not someone from Pet Smart or Petco --- they know nothing and usually give bad advice --- we had taken Hiccup into Fins and Friends in St Cloud, they are breeders and told us Hiccup was a male -- the vet we had taken him to around 4 months could not tell at that time- but as he has gotten older he is a male- Hiccup has a vet appt tomorrow afternoon for a check up before winter- he has slowed down w/ his eating - he has gone into semi brumation I beleive- the weather has changed here and he is not eating his dubias and sleeps alot- he comes out every other day to bask and I am trying to get him to eat - he will eat the horn worms the butter worms and nutri grubs but as for the dubias he is not interested! This morning he ate more greens - mustard and parsley- so w/ that being said hes not pooping every day either-- he gets his water from his greens as I wash them before putting them in his dish so they are damp - I always thought they absorbed water thru their skin when giving a bath and that was not true- so they say you can drip water on their nose and they will lick it or if giving a bath they will drink while in the water- hope that helps

My boy (I'll just call him that for now) definitely didn't shy away from the greens... ate those up in the morning, and then when I returned in the afternoon to feed him some dusted crickets, he was definitely game for those, too, darting at them right away.

So... all seems good so far! (And I think I'll keep doing that to try to ensure a good diet... a few pieces of greens for breakfast in the morning, and then crickets later on, with a few mealworms here and there.)

Still a little skittish when I come near... no signs of aggression, but I've heard it is good to give them about a week to get settled into their new homes before starting the handling routines? So I'm trying not to stress it too much...

Hi there,

I recall there was another teacher using that program you mentioned, and I think it's great to get kids to see that reptiles can be as much pets as the more traditional furry variety. I'm a bit new to beardies myself, but if there are situations where the cage will be unattended or there is a possibility that Ash might end up left alone for several days (unexpected closings, etc.), you might consider setting up lights on a timer. Alternatively, you might want to dual-home him, taking him home at night & on weekends. Also, I've found it useful to put a label on the UV fixture to remind me when the bulb was last changed. They can still shine but not be putting out a useful level of UV, so I change mine every 6 months to be on the safe side.

If you intend to leave him at school full-time, it might be a good idea to get/make an enclosure that can be secured like what you're supposed to have if there are cats in the house, so that the kids can't get to him. Beardies are fragile and all it would take is one "lapse of judgement" or a kid with malicious intent to turn things tragic for your new little friend. I know I'm looking a bit on the dark side, but I just know how sad I'd be if something preventable were to happen to mine, never mind if someone were to deliberately cause him harm.

Good advice...

I have the UV (12v ReptiSun 10) and heat lamp both on a timer (6:30 to 6:30), along with a heating pad mounted high on the rear glass to supplement the heat lamp (it just didn't seem like it was getting that warm in the basking side, and my piece of mopani wood was not good for climbing higher to the lamp)
I didn't know about the UV dimming / die-out... good knowledge to have (although in 6 months I will probably be upgrading to a whole new T5 tube-style one mounted inside of a bigger tank)

As for the kids... the viv is actually located on a countertop at a height where my little ones (they are 6 years old) can't even reach the lid of the enclosure... however, I do have a couple of pins to go in the screen lid, which I might keep in there during the day just to be on the safe side

As for being left alone... he will be alone on weekends at the classroom (for anything longer than that, I plan to bring him home.) Maybe if/when I get a bigger enclosure (within the next half year or so), I could bring him home on weekends. But I also only live 15 minutes away, not a big deal for me to come up for feeding or cleaning (though I plan to do cleanings on Fridays... and bath time, though I gave him his first bath today, since he seems very close to shedding and I wanted to make sure that process is helped along. Bath time definitely seemed to perk him up.)

Now my only concern is... I haven't seen any bowel movement yet, and that concerns me a bit... not sure if that is normal (it has been 3 days now)

Usually a soak in the water will make them go to the bathroom- may take a few but it usually does the trick---

Karrie