Introduction plus sad story- please help

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Hi everyone,
I am new here and wanted to introduce myself and also post about our situation to hopefully get some advice and help. It’s a long story so please bear with me. If you make it all the way through then BLESS you. My family (myself, hubby and two daughters ages 5 and 7) adopted a baby bearded dragon from Petco (first mistake) at the end of September 2017. We were sent home with the infamous “bearded dragon kit” (second mistake) and the handouts from the pet store and naively believed everything they told us (third mistake). We brought him home (We call “him” Spike but realize Spike may be a female) and we (myself, hubby and two daughters) all fell in love with him instantly. You’d think he was a newborn baby the way we doted over him. He was so tiny, adorable and the custest creature we had ever seen. He loved his crickets and baths and was a happy little guy. Fast forward three weeks later and our community was devestated by the Northern California/ Wine Country Fires. We had literally minutes to flee from our home at 1:30am when the firemen pounded at our door. They told us to leave immediately, not in 5 minutes, but NOW. My husband and I just looked at eachother and said “if it loves us back, we take it” So it was our kids and our animals and not a thing more that left with us that night. Our neighborhood, home, my workplace and both my daughters schools were all destroyed. Spike escaped in a glass food container that night with us when we fled our home. We took shelter at a friend’s home the next town over. We attempted to keep him warm by taking a wet washcloth and warming it in the microwave and then placing it underneath the glass container. He looked pissed as you can imagine.
At sunrise we went to the only pet store open and were met with a line around the block. Droves of people in line to purchase everything for their animals they had lost in the fires - food, Kennels, birdcages, fish tanks, anything you can think of. It was shocking and devastating to see. We grabbed the only terrarium kit left and left thankful we found something for our baby dragon. Next was finding somewhere for us and for the animals to live, but the animals were more pressing as we knew we could couch surf with friends but that would be more difficult with a dog, two cats and a tiny beardie I tow. As you can imagine, the community was completely overwhelmed with animals in need of foster homes (and people needing places to go too, so many homes were lost that there was an immediate and catastrophic housing shortage), it was a chaotic scramble of the community trying to put roofs over people and animals heads as best they could. We didn’t have a lot of choices and it was hard enough trying to find foster homes for our dog and two cats, let alone a baby beardie. When no one could or was willing to take him, a good friend of mine finally stepped up to the plate and offered to take him in. We were relieved and thankful. We gave her the same instructions we were given for him, set up his terrarium for her and left her with his calcium and some bags of crickets. After two weeks of couch surfing we were finally able to find a fifth wheel trailer to live in. My friend would send me pics and videos of Spike weekly and we even visited him a few times. He looked happy and healthy and was growing like a week. She switched him to Dubia roaches at one point and fed him plenty of fruits and veggies. Then, about three weeks ago, tragedy struck her family and she was no longer able to care for Spike. We had no choice but to take him back even though we are still living in someone else’s trailer. When we got him back he was the same heathy Spike he had been and we were actually very excited to have him home. We continued with the calcium powder on his salads and the dubia roaches. Then, about a week ago, we noticed he didn’t seem right. He wasn’t moving a ton or eating like we was. Then, on Wednesday, we noticed his tail looking crooked and his legs (primarily hind) not working.....you can guess where this is going. I immediately took to the internet and to my horror was sure it was MBD. I made an appt the next day (this last Thursday) with a reptile vet who confirmed it. The vet gave him a shot of vitamin d and oral calcium and sent me home with more oral calcium to administer daily and also antibiotics that I must administer with a needle every three days. The vet said the terrarium and UVB lights that come with these kits are terrible and no doubt to blame. He said the UVB light was probably not giving off UVB anymore despite it still being on. He said Spike was most likely going down hill for quite some time. We are all devastated. We feel horrible this happened. But we are willing to do whatever it takes to help him and to hopefully try and save him. This so what we are doing:

We now have him on a multi as well and a better calcium powder. He is offered a salad of collards, mustard greens and some celery leaves and papaya.
He has a fresh water bowl (which he’s never touched, even when he was healthy)
We are still offering him dubia roaches.
We are bathing him in warm water for 10-15 minutes a day.
He is getting the prescribed oral calcium.
We have a repti-sun 10.0 now and a repti-sun 150w basking bulb (7 inches away from the bottom of the terrarium- vet said to remove all rocks and hides so he could not risk falling or getting stuck. He can easily crawl in and out of his basking spot. (Basking is at 105 and cool is at 80).
We have a heat emmitter for the night time.
He is on reptile turf.
We lay in the sun with him on our chest for about 30 minutes a day.
He has a follow up vet appt this coming Tuesday.
We have purchased him a big wooden terrarium and whole new set up, like the works with new slate tile on the bottom, new thermostat, dimmer switch, two thermometers, new hide and wood log, you name it - it is nicer than the tailor we are living in - cost us almost $700 for everything ? but the vet said to hold off as he is stressed enough so we don’t even have him in it.
His appetite is still not great. His beard is black and he puffs up and opens his mouth when we sees us. He just seems pissed at us ?
He is still lethargic and just plain looks terrible.
What else can we be doing? What are we missing? We are heart sick over this and when I say we will do anything I mean it. We love him so much. We have lost so max already, we can’t bear to lose Spike too. Thank you for any help you can give ?
 

KeyBlu422

Juvie Member
licensetolizard":2qmwtpqk said:
Hi everyone,
I am new here and wanted to introduce myself and also post about our situation to hopefully get some advice and help. It’s a long story so please bear with me. If you make it all the way through then BLESS you. My family (myself, hubby and two daughters ages 5 and 7) adopted a baby bearded dragon from Petco (first mistake) at the end of September 2017. We were sent home with the infamous “bearded dragon kit” (second mistake) and the handouts from the pet store and naively believed everything they told us (third mistake). We brought him home (We call “him” Spike but realize Spike may be a female) and we (myself, hubby and two daughters) all fell in love with him instantly. You’d think he was a newborn baby the way we doted over him. He was so tiny, adorable and the custest creature we had ever seen. He loved his crickets and baths and was a happy little guy. Fast forward three weeks later and our community was devestated by the Northern California/ Wine Country Fires. We had literally minutes to flee from our home at 1:30am when the firemen pounded at our door. They told us to leave immediately, not in 5 minutes, but NOW. My husband and I just looked at eachother and said “if it loves us back, we take it” So it was our kids and our animals and not a thing more that left with us that night. Our neighborhood, home, my workplace and both my daughters schools were all destroyed. Spike escaped in a glass food container that night with us when we fled our home. We took shelter at a friend’s home the next town over. We attempted to keep him warm by taking a wet washcloth and warming it in the microwave and then placing it underneath the glass container. He looked pissed as you can imagine.
At sunrise we went to the only pet store open and were met with a line around the block. Droves of people in line to purchase everything for their animals they had lost in the fires - food, Kennels, birdcages, fish tanks, anything you can think of. It was shocking and devastating to see. We grabbed the only terrarium kit left and left thankful we found something for our baby dragon. Next was finding somewhere for us and for the animals to live, but the animals were more pressing as we knew we could couch surf with friends but that would be more difficult with a dog, two cats and a tiny beardie I tow. As you can imagine, the community was completely overwhelmed with animals in need of foster homes (and people needing places to go too, so many homes were lost that there was an immediate and catastrophic housing shortage), it was a chaotic scramble of the community trying to put roofs over people and animals heads as best they could. We didn’t have a lot of choices and it was hard enough trying to find foster homes for our dog and two cats, let alone a baby beardie. When no one could or was willing to take him, a good friend of mine finally stepped up to the plate and offered to take him in. We were relieved and thankful. We gave her the same instructions we were given for him, set up his terrarium for her and left her with his calcium and some bags of crickets. After two weeks of couch surfing we were finally able to find a fifth wheel trailer to live in. My friend would send me pics and videos of Spike weekly and we even visited him a few times. He looked happy and healthy and was growing like a week. She switched him to Dubia roaches at one point and fed him plenty of fruits and veggies. Then, about three weeks ago, tragedy struck her family and she was no longer able to care for Spike. We had no choice but to take him back even though we are still living in someone else’s trailer. When we got him back he was the same heathy Spike he had been and we were actually very excited to have him home. We continued with the calcium powder on his salads and the dubia roaches. Then, about a week ago, we noticed he didn’t seem right. He wasn’t moving a ton or eating like we was. Then, on Wednesday, we noticed his tail looking crooked and his legs (primarily hind) not working.....you can guess where this is going. I immediately took to the internet and to my horror was sure it was MBD. I made an appt the next day (this last Thursday) with a reptile vet who confirmed it. The vet gave him a shot of vitamin d and oral calcium and sent me home with more oral calcium to administer daily and also antibiotics that I must administer with a needle every three days. The vet said the terrarium and UVB lights that come with these kits are terrible and no doubt to blame. He said the UVB light was probably not giving off UVB anymore despite it still being on. He said Spike was most likely going down hill for quite some time. We are all devastated. We feel horrible this happened. But we are willing to do whatever it takes to help him and to hopefully try and save him. This so what we are doing:

We now have him on a multi as well and a better calcium powder. He is offered a salad of collards, mustard greens and some celery leaves and papaya.
He has a fresh water bowl (which he’s never touched, even when he was healthy)
We are still offering him dubia roaches.
We are bathing him in warm water for 10-15 minutes a day.
He is getting the prescribed oral calcium.
We have a repti-sun 10.0 now and a repti-sun 150w basking bulb (7 inches away from the bottom of the terrarium- vet said to remove all rocks and hides so he could not risk falling or getting stuck. He can easily crawl in and out of his basking spot. (Basking is at 105 and cool is at 80).
We have a heat emmitter for the night time.
He is on reptile turf.
We lay in the sun with him on our chest for about 30 minutes a day.
He has a follow up vet appt this coming Tuesday.
We have purchased him a big wooden terrarium and whole new set up, like the works with new slate tile on the bottom, new thermostat, dimmer switch, two thermometers, new hide and wood log, you name it - it is nicer than the tailor we are living in - cost us almost $700 for everything ? but the vet said to hold off as he is stressed enough so we don’t even have him in it.
His appetite is still not great. His beard is black and he puffs up and opens his mouth when we sees us. He just seems pissed at us ?
He is still lethargic and just plain looks terrible.
What else can we be doing? What are we missing? We are heart sick over this and when I say we will do anything I mean it. We love him so much. We have lost so max already, we can’t bear to lose Spike too. Thank you for any help you can give ?


Ah, back when I first got my dragon, I also got the terrarium kit. Fortunately, some research was done and he didn't get mbd like your dragon did. It's great you've now addressed the issue. There's not too much you can do, just keep doing what you are now and he won't develop mbd to an even further extent. I'm sure, in time, he will resume to his normal behavior(to the best of his ability of course), it makes sense he is that way. I would be pretty moody like he is if so many changes had occurred in such a short amount of time, I couldn't move as well as before, and I had to be on meds. It's really too bad that things like the "complete kits" are even allowed to be sold and that employees are employed despite their severe lack of knowledge towards the animals they care for. If they(the kits) weren't allowed to be sold and employees were more knowledgeable, it would be awesome and would likely save kind folks like yourself lots of heartbreak with their new animals.
 

destiny1998

Extreme Poster
Photo Comp Winner
Hi. Wow that's a lot for your family to go through. I would try giving him some stage one baby food and try putting probiotics to help with his stomach. Antibiotics are harsh on the system. You can try squash and sweet potato, green been, Turkey or chicken mixed with one of those would be good. Hope he pulls through :D
 

dezismom

Juvie Member
Oh, how my heart breaks for you all and for spike! Whata devastating experience you have had! I offer you many prayers and much empathy. It sounds like you are doing everything possible for spike. None of this has been your fault, but that makes it no less devastating for you. The good news is, it takes a long time for mbd to become fatal...so, you have time to work with him. The bad news is, once it happens, it cannot be reversed, BUT the progression can be slowed, and even stopped, so do not lose hope! With all the care he is getting, he can live a fullfilling life, although he will always be a special needs boy. (adapting his viv to protect him from falls, watching for signs of bone breaks, vitamins and lights always fresh and lots of gentle cuddles and love!)

I suspect that Spike is not pissed off, but is expressing his pain to you. I have never known a beardie to hold a grudge, even towards an aweful owner who really deserved it....I once accidentally broke my boy, DeziLu's tail, and he was not too happy with me, but was completely over his mad within a few days. I however, felt guilty for weeks. I am a uber careful, super vigilant Beardie mom, and could not forgive myself, but Dezi was a total angel, just so much unconditional love! They are so full of love, which is why you must not think Spike harbors any ill will toward you at all...He just feels rotten, and wants you to know it, because he trusts that you will try to fix it. Thus, the black bearding and mouth opening. They are very emotional little fellas, I call mine a drama queen! (king, actually) He can throw down better than any other pet I have had. I do not have much to add to advice, that you are not already doing. But I have had many years as a wildlife rehabber, and director of a wildlife sanctuary, so feel free to pm me any time you have a question, comment or just need some encouragement. I literally have tears in my eyes, as I try to comprehend the challenges you, your family, and your dear pets have endured.

Deai sends his concern and encouragement
82765-8493584999.jpg
 

licensetolizard

Member
Original Poster
Thank you all so much. Your encouragement means so much to us! My hubby keeps asking “what did they say on the forum?” :)
We are continuing with all the same therapy and (maybe it’s wishful thinking) but he looked a tiny tiny bit better today. He drank some water when we bathed him which was a first, and he also ate some collards and mango that my hubby hand fed him while they laid in the sun today, which was also a huge improvement as he’s not been interested in his salads. Still not a huge appetite (only wanted 3 dubia roaches today) but I am assuming that’s to be expected? I am anxious for the vet appt on Tuesday.
Thank you all again so much. I am very thankful for this forum already ❤️
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
That is a horrible situation for all of you and you're clearly doing your best to care for Spike. The oral calcium should be helpful but it will take some time for him to recover. High quality UVB lighting set at an appropriate distance along with proper temperature gradients is key to him being able to absorb the calcium and nutrients. Which ReptiSun 10.0 bulb did you pick up? (unfortunately there are many bulbs labeled ReptiSun 10.0 now which is deceptive marketing). It's great that you got a large tank with thermostat lighting controls. For now I would keep the setup as simple as possible so it's easier for him to move around. A nice low, flat basking site and easy access to cooler areas is best. Hopefully he will start to show signs of improvement soon.
 

licensetolizard

Member
Original Poster
Thank you so much ? leaving for vet appt soon. I’ll take a pic of the new reptisun bulb...that’s concerning that there’s imposter reptisun bulbs out there! It’s starting to feel like there’s a large margin for error for new owners with all the misinformation and bad quality equipment out there. I’m so thankful for this forum! We beardie owners really need to stick together!
We did change his substrate to newspaper...the reptile turf was too hard to clean everyday and this way we just give him fresh paper everyday. Also no snags on his little claws. Hope this is okay? He’s still not eating great which will be a main point of concern at the vet appt today. Will post what happens.
Thank you again everyone ?
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
It's not that they are imposter bulbs really. They are still made by ZooMed. They have just labeled different bulbs with different outputs 10.0. That makes it important to differentiate between the T8 tube, T5 tube, and compact bulbs of varied wattages which all carry that label. They all have different effective ranges and aren't equal despite the label. It certainly is confusing, especially to someone just getting started. We are here to help you get it all sorted though. Feel free to ask any questions you have.

Newspaper is fine. Much easier to clean. I've also found the repticarpet to be a pain to clean. It required frequent washing so I'd use multiple sets. The frequent washing caused them to fray and fall apart quickly. It's easier to clean/sanitize something solid like non adhesive shelf liner or tile. Newspaper or butcher paper are fine for now though. Just toss it and replace it as needed.

Hopefully the vet apt goes well. The lack of appetite is probably part of stress from adjustment, lighting, and a lot of just rough luck. I hope that is all about to change for all of you.
 

ncc74656

Hatchling Member
being in cali i would imagine you could easily get him outside for real sun and uvb. my beardie gets 80% of her uvb intake from being outside. calcium and multi vitamins as well as gut loading food for him, some beardies dont metabolize the raw powder as well as others (just like humans they are all different) and gut loading can help with this as the roaches or crickets now have this nurturance in them.

also it might help to give him baths where he can move his joints and massage him a bit, giving him a easier way to go through full joint movement and keep him active with out stress. also getting good inside uvb bulbs will help a lot, they can only absorb so much and i hope the damage hasn't gone to far. if you put him outside just know that glass blocks uvb so you will need to use some kind of screen and the screen should be some what loose to allow lots of light with out blocking it.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Wow I am so sorry for all of your hardships, what an ordeal you & your entire human & animal
family have been through. At least everyone is alive!
It sounds like Spike is on his way to recovery thankfully. Outdoor time is the best but he will
definitely need an indoor UVB source too for extra exposure for him.
I hope that his appetite picks up & he really starts to feel better soon!

Tracie
 

licensetolizard

Member
Original Poster
Thanks everyone. You all are so sweet and kind.
The Vet was very pleased with Spikes progress at his appt yesterday AM. He wasn’t too concerned about his appetite not being great, so that was comforting. He did give him a B12 shot to stimulate his appetite and I must say Spike has been more interested in eating since yesterday morning so that’s good. He did lose 3 grams since his vet appt last Thursday, but he had taken a huge poop on the examine table right before they weighed him! We are continuing with daily baths, outside time and daily oral calcium and antibiotics every three days. The vet did have us get a mercury vapor bulb as well so we now have that in the tank along with the reptisun 10.0 rod. He said not to worry about too much UVB (I had asked about this). I feel bad Spike doesn’t have a hide still but vet said its still too risky for him to get stuck or fall. Any ideas???
He also said it is slightly too early to tell still , but he “thinks” Spike may be a girl! ?
Spike has another follow up appt in a week and a half, and we will be going out of town for a long weekend a couple days after, so we will be boarding him/her at the vet which will make us feel better. Thank you again for all your support and advice ?❤️
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
That's good to hear. 3g isn't a big deal to lose. A big poop could do that easily. Which kind of mercury vapor bulb did you get? They aren't all equal so it's worth getting a good one. It's important to mount them at a proper distance too (this varies between bulbs) so they produce adequate UVB over the basking area.

If you post some photos of Spike facing away with tail raised up we can probably tell fairly easily if he is a boy or girl. https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=204533
 

ncc74656

Hatchling Member
id be curious to see xrays of him, to track progress. i had a beardie years ago and i went through this with the rescue. we took xrays every 3 weeks to track how things were going
 

dezismom

Juvie Member
It is good to hear that Spike (Spikette??) is making progress! Yay! It will be a slow journey, but hope is a great motivater.
Substrate: I have found the puppy wee wee pads, available from a pet store or walmart, to be more absorbant than newspaper, and great for easy clean up, due to the plastic backing. I use these for Dezi's travel set up. The absorbtion makes for less mess on him, too. They can be cut to fit the viv. Paper towel are another, more absorptive, option...I get the cheap ones to use in his travel container, when I run out of wee pads. I like that they are white, with no black print to rub off on his skin. Just a suggestion...nothing wrong with newspaper.
I am happy about Spike having some appetite! I would not expect it to be back in full, just yet. How is his mood/attitude? Is he a little more comfortable and less defensive? That may take a while, since even with the improvement, he will still experience some pain in his bones. But they have amazing self healing ability, when given all the right environment and nutrition, and you are certainly doing that. Good job!! Please keep us informed as you have time, about Spikes progress...Our dedication to the well being of these amazing creatures is all the reason needed to help anyone we can, but is so nice to hear about the success stories! My prayers and warm thoughts for all of your family, human and non-human variety! Much lizard love from DeziLu ???
 

licensetolizard

Member
Original Poster
Hi everyone,
I am so sorry to not have updated in a while. We have been consumed with insurance hell with losing our home and rehabilitating Spike which is like having a new born.
Things were going great with Spike for a while and he seemed to be turning a corner for the better. We were still taking him to the vet every two weeks and things were moving along, slowly but surely. We took him in last week and the vet mentioned he was concerned that Spike wasn’t making better progress like he had hoped, especially because we had him on a pretty intense rehabilitation program at home. He mentioned x-rays and/or blood work at the next appt if there was still no improvement and we agreed. He gave him fluids, more B12 and prescribed continued daily oral calcium as we had been doing. We took him home and for the next few days my husband and I just noticed he didn’t look good. His appetite was nil and he just looked like he didn’t feel well. Not alert and not moving much. We decided to make an appt the next day. Then yesterday we came home from work and to our shock and horror, Spike had passed away ? We weren’t sure at first and hoped we were wrong but called the vet and they said to do the following to verify: We picked him up, put him on his back and nothing. Stiff as a board. I shined a bright light in his eye (which was open) and nothing. They said he’s definitely gone ? We are all so devestated. We did everything we were told and put so much love and care into him and he still died. We feel terrible. I wish I had better news. Our family has been through so much and this was definitely the last thing we needed. We miss him so much. I can’t bring myself to remove him from the tank.
We are loving and committed beardie owners and I truly hope we can make another beardie very happy one day! We have so much love to give.
Thank you to everyone on this board that gave advice and encouragement, it’s so appreciated.
 
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