This damn dragon....need help with temps

reereejugs · Feb 1, 2019

Edit: Guess I did the image wrong. Here's a link: http://imgur.com/gallery/jFrxDiJ

We moved him into a 40 gallon breeder yesterday from a 55 gallon tank for the floor space. Lester is recovering from MDB & can't climb so the move was necessary. Now I can't get his temps up where they need to be and he doesn't seem to even want to be on the warm side. He keeps hauling himself over to the cool side no matter which side I make the cool side. Idk what his deal is. What can I do to get his temps up?

Specs:
•40 gallon breeder w/screen top
•Zoo Med Mini Combo Deep Dome Fixture w/100 watt basking bulb and 100 watt halogen bulb.
•The other fixture is a ceramic heat emitter (dimmable)
•Reptisun 24"T5 hood w/ 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5 bulb

I have a temp gun coming from Amazon that was supposed to arrive yesterday so hopefully it'll show up today. Right now I'm still using a probe thermometer on top of the log where I put him to bask. I used to perch him on top of that cave thing but his dumb ass kept rolling off the side so now he's just using it for a hide. Right now the top of the log is 88° & idk what the cool side is currently but that's with the heat emitter cranked all the way up. I don't think I can increase the wattages in the combo without blowing the fixture. I should probably mention that I have to keep my apartment ~64-66° during the day & 60-62° at night or my older daughter & I get all stuffy af with headaches & she gets nosebleeds. We have pretty bad sinus issues. Turning up the overall household temp isn't an option & I didn't have problems keeping his temps up in the 55 gallon tank despite the higher "ceiling".

Edit #2: How do I go about mounting the UVB fixture inside the tank?

KarrieRee · Feb 1, 2019

You can use fishing line or string - baling twine- the bulb is a long tube I am understanding -- maybe bend some coat hangers? So the 2 bulbs in the dome are both for basking? Can you post some pics so we can look at it please?
Karrie

reereejugs · Feb 1, 2019

KarrieRee":3j0mc96i said:
You can use fishing line or string - baling twine- the bulb is a long tube I am understanding -- maybe bend some coat hangers? So the 2 bulbs in the dome are both for basking? Can you post some pics so we can look at it please?
Karrie

One of the bulbs in the dome is a Reptisun 100 watt basking bulb, the other is a regular 100 watt halogen bulb like you'd find at Walmart. He has 200 watts of light total currently hitting his basking spot + the CHE. The CHE is 100 or 150 watts, I don't remember which, & it's still not hot enough. I didn't have this problem in the other tank & rarely needed the CHE during the day. Moving his basking spot up higher isn't an option because, like I said, he rolls off & I don't want him getting hurt.

Here's a pic of the lights as he sees them:

http://imgur.com/gallery/lG27iTJ

KarrieRee · Feb 1, 2019

They make a 150 watt exo terro-- why is he rolling off the basking area? I need to go look at pic you posted
Karrie

KarrieRee · Feb 1, 2019

He's rolling off the wood log? Some thing does not sound right- you can put a hammock in but I would find out why he's rolling off- not sure what causes that --- please PM Tracie drache613 she's our vet mod find her name or do search and tell her what's going on-- I don't want him to hurt himself
Karrie

reereejugs · Feb 1, 2019

Turns out the probe thermometer wasn't reading accurately. He's all good.

KarrieRee · Feb 1, 2019

Still if he's rolling off log that is not right- you might want to invest in a infrared heat gun from Wal-Mart home depot etc... They r $10-- I recommend you post on health board about rolling or pm Tracie

Karrie

Gormagon · Feb 1, 2019

A 100w halogen? That alone would be way to hot for a 40gl breeder tank. Its got to be 130 degrees on the floor with that bulb alone then add a 100w basking bulb to the mix....wow!!! Slow roasted dragon. I heat an entire 4x2x2.4 with one 75w bulb.

kingofnobbys · Feb 1, 2019

reereejugs":2h9m38d7 said:
Edit: Guess I did the image wrong. Here's a link: http://imgur.com/gallery/jFrxDiJ

We moved him into a 40 gallon breeder yesterday from a 55 gallon tank for the floor space. Lester is recovering from MDB & can't climb so the move was necessary. Now I can't get his temps up where they need to be and he doesn't seem to even want to be on the warm side. He keeps hauling himself over to the cool side no matter which side I make the cool side. Idk what his deal is. What can I do to get his temps up?

He is telling you the warm zone is too hot for him , this implies the thermometer you are using is inaccurate / wrong if you think the temperatures are too low .
See this for an explanation of dragon thermal responses : viewtopic.php?f=5&t=233516

What kind of thermometer are you using ?

Specs:
•40 gallon breeder w/screen top
•Zoo Med Mini Combo Deep Dome Fixture w/100 watt basking bulb and 100 watt halogen bulb.
•The other fixture is a ceramic heat emitter (dimmable)
•Reptisun 24"T5 hood w/ 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5 bulb

I have a temp gun coming from Amazon that was supposed to arrive yesterday so hopefully it'll show up today. Right now I'm still using a probe thermometer on top of the log where I put him to bask. I used to perch him on top of that cave thing but his dumb ***** kept rolling off the side so now he's just using it for a hide. Right now the top of the log is 88° & idk what the cool side is currently but that's with the heat emitter cranked all the way up. I don't think I can increase the wattages in the combo without blowing the fixture. I should probably mention that I have to keep my apartment ~64-66° during the day & 60-62° at night or my older daughter & I get all stuffy af with headaches & she gets nosebleeds. We have pretty bad sinus issues. Turning up the overall household temp isn't an option & I didn't have problems keeping his temps up in the 55 gallon tank despite the higher "ceiling".

Solid timber lid will help hold the heat in the tank overnight , instead of the CHE creating warm air that will immediately rise and pool on the ceiling of the room.
See this for an explanation : viewtopic.php?f=34&t=236332&p=1816614&hilit=heat+transfer#p1816614
you are essentially wasting electricity for very little benefit ,

he will definitely benefit and enjoy something like this set up under his hide (half hollow log if he has one) : viewtopic.php?f=75&t=224976&p=1746469&hilit=safe+way+to+use+heatpads#p1746469

and this for ways to convert the open topped (mesh topped) viv to make it more thermally efficient :https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=240221&p=1840683#p1840683

Edit #2: How do I go about mounting the UVB fixture inside the tank?
<<< string, wool, monofilament fishing line, cable ties are all easy to use simply poke through the mesh form two loops and draw tight around the two ends of the hood.

kingofnobbys · Feb 1, 2019

KarrieRee":e3oz69dm said:
Still if he's rolling off log that is not right- you might want to invest in a infrared heat gun from Wal-Mart home depot etc... They r $10-- I recommend you post on health board about rolling or pm Tracie

Karrie

The flipping over onto his back / constant stargazing are a indication of neurological issues likely due to ADV.
https://www.thesprucepets.com/atadenovirus-adv-in-bearded-dragons-1238407
A vet should test him for ADV to determine if this at the nub of the problem , if he proves ADV negative then perhaps the vet can develop a treatment plan that might rehabilitate him.

Gormagon · Feb 2, 2019

it is way to hot in that small tank. He has to crawl over to the NOT SO HOT SIDE so he doesn't get a heat stroke. Dragon's self regulate, they know what's best for them. Please turn one of those bulbs off for his sake.

reereejugs · Feb 2, 2019

Gormagon":lnqlfqjv said:
it is way to hot in that small tank. He has to crawl over to the NOT SO HOT SIDE so he doesn't get a heat stroke. Dragon's self regulate, they know what's best for them. Please turn one of those bulbs off for his sake.

How is too hot if the infrared heat gun is reading 100° on his basking log? Isn't the basking area supposed to be around that temp? That's what I keep seeing & it's what the vet said. If I'm wrong I'll fix it. I have to use more heat lights than most of you probably need because, like I said, I keep my apartment cold af. The probe thermometer was reading wrong but the temp gun keeps giving me readings around 100°.

As for the rolling, I'm aware that its probably neurological. The vet said she suspected atadenovirus (did I spell that right?) last time I took him but I couldn't afford all the bloodwork. I'm taking him back to the vet this month as soon as I get my tax refund. Would be sooner but my boyfriend just lost his job today, I don't start my new job till Thursday, and the rent is due. It's been a rough several months around here, money wise

I bought the new terrarium hood with the t5 light & the temp gun because that's more of an immediate concern.

He never stargazes, which is apparently a big thing with atadenovirus & he's not all that twitchy. The rolling doesn't happen all the time & it's mainly when he's asleep. He hasn't rolled off the log, just off the cave looking thing in the pic I linked to. That's why I don't put him on top of it anymore. He's actually doing a lot better than he was a year ago--he went anorexic & had to be force fed Critical Care for several months, then he began voluntarily eating it off of his snout when I dribbled it on. He started chowing down on baby food a few months ago & he's starting to eat worms again if I drop them in his mouth. The baby food is chicken, butternut squash, kale or collard greens that I mix in the blender, sometimes carrots, and sometimes mango. None have added ingredients & I do add some calcium powder to the chicken.

Can anyone recommend a good reptile vet in STL that doesn't cost an arm & a leg? I was taking him to someone in Rolla who handles reptiles but they aren't her main focus. Same with the vet I found in Union who we went to last time (closer to home). I can drive him to STL because its only like 60-70 miles away but I can't take him all the way to Columbia. I've heard there's a great vet in Columbia but it's just not feasible. My brother lives that way & visits a lot but he's going thru some med adjustments & I don't currently trust him to remember to take care of Lester.

Edit: I tested the temp gun out & its accurate. Today he's been hanging out on the warm side, mostly on his log.

Edit 2: This is the temp gun. ANGGO IR Infrared Non-contact Digital Temperature Gun Thermometer with Laser for Precisely Aiming, Bright LCD Display with LED Backlight (-58 °F to 716°F) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FYVEJMY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_-EIvCb0PQY9PX

reereejugs · Feb 2, 2019

I feel like I should probably mention that I haven't had Lester since he was a hatchling; he was around 8 months old when I took him in. He wasn't in the best shape when I took him because the kid I got him from had him crammed into a 10 gal tank with no lighting aside from a Halloween black light bulb. The kid only fed Lester insects as a "treat" and had him on those bearded dragon pellets you can buy. The kid said Lester was "boring" & was gonna let him go outside (MO late fall) so he could get a snake. I'm doing the best I can but idk if he can even be "fixed". I'm hoping the vet can help but if I have to I'll have him put down. I really don't wanna do that

Gormagon · Feb 2, 2019

If that is the case, I would suggest getting a nice background to wrap the back and sides
Then get a sheet of 1/2" styrofoam and cut it to fit the back and sides. This will allow you to supply heat easier. I did this on a 75 gl aquarium I used for an enclosure a few years ago, man what a difference .
I didn't mean to come off as crass, I was just worried about your dragon.

kingofnobbys · Feb 2, 2019

reereejugs":1l1ujbu9 said:
How is too hot if the infrared heat gun is reading 100° on his basking log? Isn't the basking area supposed to be around that temp? That's what I keep seeing & it's what the vet said. If I'm wrong I'll fix it. I have to use more heat lights than most of you probably need because, like I said, I keep my apartment cold af. The probe thermometer was reading wrong but the temp

..

Edit: I tested the temp gun out & its accurate. Today he's been hanging out on the warm side, mostly on his log.

Edit 2: This is the temp gun. ANGGO IR Infrared Non-contact Digital Temperature Gun Thermometer with Laser for Precisely Aiming, Bright LCD Display with LED Backlight (-58 °F to 716°F) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FYVEJMY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_-EIvCb0PQY9PX

Provided the emissivity of the surface being measured is 0.9 , it will be "accurate". However different materials have different emissivities , I can point you a table of material emissitivities if you like.
If the emissivity of the surface is even 5% different this will result in substantial temperature measurement error (several degC).

Unfortunately if you pay peanuts don't expect accuracy or a good calibration. The gun you have doesn't have the ability to adjust emissivity so at best you can only expect an approximate surface temperature from the unit - better than no thermometer and probably better than dial or strip type analog thermometers.

If it's giving surface temperatures within 10 degC of the actual you are doing well.

I'd use the dragon's behaviuour as your guide - he's telling you he doesn't like the warm zone or the basking spot because it's too hot (for him) , listen to him and adjust the temperatures there accordingly (ie down incrementally by 5 degF increments) until he starts voluntarily going there.

My dragons have always liked a basking spot at about 34 -37 degC and my current girl will spend hours each day there.

This damn dragon....need help with temps

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