Husbandry Help

I am hoping someone can maybe find a flaw or flaws with my overall husbandry and cleanliness of my set ups. I have been keeping beardies for 10 years, and have been pretty lucky in terms of health until now. One passed from kidney disease/failure October 9, another developed septic arthritis mid October, and now another has been diagnosed with pneumonia (prognosis poor). I have been over and over my set up and cannot find any flaws. I have to be missing something. Septic Arthritis and RI/pneumonia are always blamed directly on husbandry from what I have read.

2 75 gallon glass aquariums
1 40 gallon breeder vivarium
1 custom wood enclosure/sealed 13 by 36 by 24 - this was given to me with the beardie

Heating - is maintained with incandescent lights, usually halogen spots. Anywhere for 50 to 75 watts. Basking spots are no cooler than 99F and in normal circumstances no higher than 101F.
When reptiles are ill basking spot is bumped to 103F to 105F.

UVB - always used Reptisun 10.0, T12 and T8 were 6-8 inches from reptile, changed every 6 to 9 months running the full length of tank. New Reptisun T5 HO installed October 2018, 9-10 inches away from the reptile. Running 3/4 of tank length.

Humidity - ranges on all four cages are anywhere from 30% to 37%

Substrate - was ceramic tile, but recently switched to padded shelf liner and fleece. If fleece is soiled it runs though washer warm water and bleach added.

Cleaning - feces are removed as I immediately see it, then cleaned with 50% vinegar/water. Veggies are taken and removed daily. No bugs are ever left in the cages. Feeding is outside of the cage. Tear down of cage is done once every three to four months, with the animal removed. 10% bleach solution used, followed by regular water rinse, followed by 50% vinegar wipe down. Basking and decorations are spot cleaned. Whatever dirt/debris cannot be removed is run through the dishwasher, vinegar or bleach depending, no soap used. Hard to clean deco may also get a toothbrush, antibacterial soap scrub, followed by clean rinse hot water. Once per year everything is run through dishwasher no soap and high heat dry.

If a lizards poop outside the cage in a communal area, it is cleaned immediately, followed by a 10% bleach wash and water rinse. I have a fountain that they can swim in and around and each lizard has their own bowl. Water is changed immediately if they poop. Lizards are never together, I have never let them to near each other (within 2 feet). They are not bathed together, and the only time they are close to each other is through a cage grate when in their outdoor enclosures in late Spring early summer for a few hours.

Dubia are fed fresh vegetables, that are removed before molding, dubia are cleaned about once every two months, full tear down, new egg crates, clean all surfaces with 50% vinegar solution. There has never been a huge die off in my colony to indicate disease.

Here is the temperature gauge I use:


Vitamin schedule: Repticalcium 3 times per week, Repticalcium D3 twice per month, Herptivite 2 times per week. As currently all my dragons are adults.

Did I forget anything? Can you see where any flaws might be.

Biggest thing that catches my eye is uvb bulbs, or lost me. So you switched out all uvb to t5 bulbs in all tanks? As I'm sure you know that the t8 bulb is weaker than t5. Do you run reflector's on the t5? If so they can be a foot away. Do they cover the whole length on the tanks currently? Do the dragons have places where uvb is not getting to so they can get away from it besides when light is off?

You could also drop basking temp to 95-100 if they're adults. I use an ir gun to check temps. When my beardies bask i measure them and adjust temp of light that way. On occasion my beardies will open mouth when basking to self regulate.

So sorry to hear about the pneumonia now. Is he struggling to breath ? Eating + active at all ? I don't see anything wrong at all and I don't believe that those conditions come on because of husbandry in all circumstances. People can develop such things without there always being a known cause all the time.


Although I don't think this contributed to anything, I would be wary of using a fountain. It just might harbor bacteria that can't be completely eliminated so maybe better safe than sorry. Do you have a picture of it ?

And another thing I just thought about, vinegar fumes can affect the airways so maybe cut down from the 50/50 mix to just a couple of tablespoons per 1/2 gallon of water for disinfecting. Red wine vinegar is the strongest out of all of them BTW.

Scion19801":11sj9r6w said:

Biggest thing that catches my eye is uvb bulbs, or lost me. So you switched out all uvb to t5 bulbs in all tanks? As I'm sure you know that the t8 bulb is weaker than t5. Do you run reflector's on the t5? If so they can be a foot away. Do they cover the whole length on the tanks currently? Do the dragons have places where uvb is not getting to so they can get away from it besides when light is off?

You could also drop basking temp to 95-100 if they're adults. I use an ir gun to check temps. When my beardies bask i measure them and adjust temp of light that way. On occasion my beardies will open mouth when basking to self regulate.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your response. Yes I am aware that T5s are stronger. All T5s run 3/4 of the tank. No reflector. Mounted to the inside of the tank/ viv. So there are places for lots of gradient and shade away from UVB and heat. I have a gun as well. But I mostly rely on the probe for temps. Most of the time basking is 99 to 100. But I could try dropping it to 95 F. Although the dragons have choces with basking. I have created areas to bask away from the most intense heat. Yet 2 of three prefer to sit in direct heat and vent. Thanks again. Gives me something to consider.

AHBD":2w4bele6 said:

So sorry to hear about the pneumonia now. Is he struggling to breath ? Eating + active at all ? I don't see anything wrong at all and I don't believe that those conditions come on because of husbandry in all circumstances. People can develop such things without there always being a known cause all the time.


Although I don't think this contributed to anything, I would be wary of using a fountain. It just might harbor bacteria that can't be completely eliminated so maybe better safe than sorry. Do you have a picture of it ?

And another thing I just thought about, vinegar fumes can affect the airways so maybe cut down from the 50/50 mix to just a couple of tablespoons per 1/2 gallon of water for disinfecting. Red wine vinegar is the strongest out of all of them BTW.

Click to expand...

It is awful...no signs specifically until Monday evening when I noticed a " lip gloss" discharge from mouth. At the vet he was doing the almost vomit cough very similar to the video posted by another member here recently. It was horrible. X rays confirmed pneumonia. Prognosis is poor. Since being home he spends his time basking. Temps bumped to 102F. He vents and sometimes breaths heavier with some huffing and popping. He is a trooper though. Still eating well. Geez...just Sunday he was show boating....head bobbing and waving. How did this happen so fast! When sleeping his breathing is calmer...much calmer sometimes iI think he is not breathing. I check on him a lot hoping for the best.

The fountain is basically a table fountain water pump in a plant pot base. The water pump is placed in a plastic plant pot base filled with water. Then turned on. So the pump circulates the plant pot base water. The water is only 1 inch deep. The water is dumped after use and the pump is dried a week between next use. They are supervised during use. I can post a pic if you are interested.

I use white vinegar...I do use it sparingly. But admit I have sprayed it direclty into the vivs. Mind you this is twice a week at most. If beardies poop in cage. When I am spraying a lot I do not have them in thier vivs at all. What is it that you use? I am waiting for my ordef of F10 SC to come...but that is a month away. I really appreciate your perspective and advice. I am just so devastated...and maybe I am placing blame on myself because I cannot find another source. It is just so bizarre that this has all happened in sucession so fast. I was going to add another scaly friend this Spring...but now second guess my capabilities

I'm going out in a few minutes but wanted to post this link quickly to a Q about vinegar fumes. It also contains a link from a CDC article:

https://www.quora.com/Are-vinegar-fumes-unhealthy-in-any-way

So no, it's not completely safe to spray in to a tank. I use red wine vinegar mixed with a bit of soapy water for cleaning. About 4-5 TBspoons to a few cups of water, or the equivalent of a tall cottage cheese container which is what I use. I don't spray it, I use paper towels and/or cleaning rag, then I follow up with a fresh water wiping with another rag to get rid of the residue.

Still, it may not be the cause of your dragon'r R.I but since he's sick now be very careful and only wipe it and then wipe it off with a rag + plain water. Maybe bump his basking temp. to 107 now as well. So sorry that it's been one thing after another + hope your babies pull through.

Hello,

Your tank setups are fine, in my opinion. The T5's are excellent lights. They are mounted
directly overhead, correct?
I agree, just be mindful with the fountain but that is such a nice addition to the tanks.
I'm sorry you are having so much trouble with everything right now.
What about the insects you feed, where do you get them, or do you breed them all yourself?


Tracie

With the vinegar I do the same. I spray it on paper towel and wipe...but the dragons have always bee in the cage. Today when I cleaned. I took him right out. Then rinsed all with water.

The T5s are mounted to the backside top of the vivs unobstucted.

The fountain is not in the vivs. I have a gated area in their room. The fountain is used once a week in that gated area. It was made more to wntice them with water. But if you all feel this could be problematic I can get ris of it. It has just been in use since mid October. I made my own instead of buyi g an uber expensive Zoo Med model.

The dubia are raised. The other bugs are bought from a local pet shop that I have been using since day 1. I am tring to raise my own waxies and supers, but am a long way off from that yet.