What are the best substrates?

NoahC · Apr 8, 2018

I've had my young beardie for just over a month (a long awaited 16th birthday present

) and he's doing very well! I got him from a specialised reptile store with lots of experience so I've taken most of their advice with no questions. However, I did do many months of research prior to purchasing my dragon (mainly on this website) and noticed that there's a lot of debate as to whether sand is a good substrate or not. The store sent me home with a large bag of sand to use in his viv which I was sceptical about because I've read that it can cause severe impaction! I've decided not to use it, opting for paper towels instead, and he seems to be doing fine. I was wondering if anyone could recommend any other types of substrate because I'd prefer something that looked nicer and live food can't crawl under, as he's quite slow to realise that I've released food, and by the time he notices, the roaches have already hidden themselves under the paper.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!

VenusAndSaturn · Apr 8, 2018

Other than being completely unatural sand also, other than impaction it can cause prolapses, joint issues, eye infections, provides a place for tons of bacteria to breed, so not very clean even if you do spot clean it, and it can cause scale rot sometimes, it also can cause fungal infections. And of course death.

Not a very experienced petstore if they're selling a highly dangerous substrate. Probably just wanted to make a buck or two rather than caring too much about the animals well beings, or they just dont know anything about reptiles like most petstores.

As for other substrates you can use non adhesive shelf liner, tile (I'd recommend this), newspaper, and repticarpet.

Also just wondering what type of UVB light do you have and what basking/night time bulbs do you use?

Tarbie · Apr 8, 2018

For a baby beardie, I'd go with paper substrate or no substrate at all. Too much risk of impaction, or infection if he's pooping in his viv.

We have Tony on sand these days but he's 18 months old, eats either outside of his viv or from my hands, and never poops in his viv. I prefer it as Tony enjoys digging. I wouldn't go for it if Tony was prone to pooping in his viv however, the sand just accumulates bacteria.

VenusAndSaturn · Apr 8, 2018

Post by Tarbie » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:58 am

For a baby beardie, I'd go with paper substrate or no substrate at all. Too much risk of impaction, or infection if he's pooping in his viv.

We have Tony on sand these days but he's 18 months old, eats either outside of his viv or from my hands, and never poops in his viv. I prefer it as Tony enjoys digging. I wouldn't go for it if Tony was prone to pooping in his viv however, the sand just accumulates bacteria.

Pretty stupid to just do it for looks and digging.
You do realize its also very unnatural for them and you could use other safer substrates?
Their main substrate that they would live on would be dirt, with a mix of rocks, clay, minerals and just a tiny bit of sand.

These are a few pictures of their natural range.

If you want to provide a dig area you can do it in a small portion of the viv with something like eco earth, much safer. Or provide a fleece blanket in one of the hides.

You could do even bioactive, however your most likely to end up killing the dragon attempting such a dangerous thing when you have little to no experience.

dezismom · Apr 8, 2018

Use of sand as a substrate is a controversial topic. For some reason, it provokes strong responses. Truth is, some people say it is horribly dangerous, while others have used it for many years, no problems. I am one of those. When I first got my Beardie, I carefully read all I could find, including an excellent book written by experts in the field-all vets specializing in Beardies, some breeders. They conclude that, used correctly, the danger of impaction is not that critical. The key is, use the calcium sand, not colored, and keep it clean and dry. i switched to sand when Dez was around three months old. (before that age, I used paper towels or puppy wee pads) I use a fish net to sift it once a week, stir it up to check for any moisture, and use a wide, low water dish, which I fill half way, to prevent water sloshing over into the sand. Wet sand is moved out immediatedly. A platform keeps the food dish off the sand. Dezi also loves digging, and I keep his sand warm with a heating pad under the viv. That, with the heat lamps, keeps sand dry. The book shows wild Beardies living in a sand environment, although many do live in rocky, dirt areas. It also describes how they are designed to "surf" down sand dunes, on their bellies, using their backwards shaped hands to paddle.

So, it is a matter of personal opinion, and what is right for some owners may not suit others. Many cases of impaction involve more than one factor: if the owner lets the dragon feed directly on sand, it is more likely that some will be ingested--not good! And if the dragon is fed too many, or too big hard bodied live food, like superworms as their primary protien, it makes impaction more likely. Also, making sure the Beardie is well hydrated is important. They do not like drinking from a dish, that is not natural to them. I hand water Dez, using a 1cc syringe, dropping it on his lips. He lets me know if he wants more by sticking out his cute pink tongue. When full, he turns his head away. I offer water daily. He dislikes baths, but some dragons do like them, and they will sometimes drink a bit while bathing, They do get hydration from their food, as well. I like to know exactly how much water he is getting, so the syringe works well for me. Again, it is a matter of personal choice...an owner who has little time to hand deliver water may not find the syringe convenient. I have the time, and hand watering is a good way to build the bond between us. I also hand feed him his live food, except for some crickets that I leave in Dezi's viv each morning, so he has some entertainment and exercise, hunting them. He likes that! But at night, I remove any left over crickets, because they can bite a sleeping Beardie. I like that sand is easy to clean up any poo...I just scoop it out with the fish net. Also, Dezi is trained to go potty on puppy wee pads, when he is out with me, which is often, and he prefers that to messing up his viv, so there is very little clean up in his viv. Dezi stays clean and dry and that prevents any skin problems. Bottom line? Just educate yourself thoroughly, and weigh the options. Then, make your own decision, based upon your needs and your Beardies needs. There are several options available, including repti carpet, tile, paper, etc...each has some pros and cons. I respect others opinions but it is not so "black and white" but more shades of grey...I do not mean to offend any who feel otherwise!? We love our Beardies! And we do what we think is best for them. I very much respect and admire those owners who take their bearides well being seriously. These are amazing animals, and deserve good owners!

Dezi thinks his mom is the best substrate!

Tarbie · Apr 8, 2018

VenusAndSaturn":2x5zte3i said:
Pretty stupid to just do it for looks and digging.
You do realize its also very unnatural for them and you could use other safer substrates?
Their main substrate that they would live on would be dirt, with a mix of rocks, clay, minerals and just a tiny bit of sand.

These are a few pictures of their natural range.

If you want to provide a dig area you can do it in a small portion of the viv with something like eco earth, much safer. Or provide a fleece blanket in one of the hides.

You could do even bioactive, however your most likely to end up killing the dragon attempting such a dangerous thing when you have little to no experience.

Click to expand...

Where is the risk?

As I said, Tony neither eats, nor poops in his viv. The sand gets changed every few months, and I'd change it straight away in the unlikely event that he pooped in it. Don't get me wrong, wouldn't have dreamt of using sand as a substrate when he was a baby.

Also worth bearing in mind that I live in Africa. We don't have Petco or anything like that, and our choice of supplies here is extremely limited.

Dunno where you get "little or no experience" from either. We've raised Tony since he was a hatchling without any serious health problems, and we research a lot. Me and my wife have also both kept reptiles before.

So yeah, maybe "pretty stupid" in your eyes. In reality, we've got a happy healthy beardie who's doing just fine thanks!

NoahC · Apr 8, 2018

dezismom":249lkkvn said:
Use of sand as a substrate is a controversial topic. For some reason, it provokes strong responses. Truth is, some people say it is horribly dangerous, while others have used it for many years, no problems. I am one of those. When I first got my Beardie, I carefully read all I could find, including an excellent book written by experts in the field-all vets specializing in Beardies, some breeders. They conclude that, used correctly, the danger of impaction is not that critical. The key is, use the calcium sand, not colored, and keep it clean and dry. i switched to sand when Dez was around three months old. (before that age, I used paper towels or puppy wee pads) I use a fish net to sift it once a week, stir it up to check for any moisture, and use a wide, low water dish, which I fill half way, to prevent water sloshing over into the sand. Wet sand is moved out immediatedly. A platform keeps the food dish off the sand. Dezi also loves digging, and I keep his sand warm with a heating pad under the viv. That, with the heat lamps, keeps sand dry. The book shows wild Beardies living in a sand environment, although many do live in rocky, dirt areas. It also describes how they are designed to "surf" down sand dunes, on their bellies, using their backwards shaped hands to paddle.

So, it is a matter of personal opinion, and what is right for some owners may not suit others. Many cases of impaction involve more than one factor: if the owner lets the dragon feed directly on sand, it is more likely that some will be ingested--not good! And if the dragon is fed too many, or too big hard bodied live food, like superworms as their primary protien, it makes impaction more likely. Also, making sure the Beardie is well hydrated is important. They do not like drinking from a dish, that is not natural to them. I hand water Dez, using a 1cc syringe, dropping it on his lips. He lets me know if he wants more by sticking out his cute pink tongue. When full, he turns his head away. I offer water daily. He dislikes baths, but some dragons do like them, and they will sometimes drink a bit while bathing, They do get hydration from their food, as well. I like to know exactly how much water he is getting, so the syringe works well for me. Again, it is a matter of personal choice...an owner who has little time to hand deliver water may not find the syringe convenient. I have the time, and hand watering is a good way to build the bond between us. I also hand feed him his live food, except for some crickets that I leave in Dezi's viv each morning, so he has some entertainment and exercise, hunting them. He likes that! But at night, I remove any left over crickets, because they can bite a sleeping Beardie. I like that sand is easy to clean up any poo...I just scoop it out with the fish net. Also, Dezi is trained to go potty on puppy wee pads, when he is out with me, which is often, and he prefers that to messing up his viv, so there is very little clean up in his viv. Dezi stays clean and dry and that prevents any skin problems. Bottom line? Just educate yourself thoroughly, and weigh the options. Then, make your own decision, based upon your needs and your Beardies needs. There are several options available, including repti carpet, tile, paper, etc...each has some pros and cons. I respect others opinions but it is not so "black and white" but more shades of grey...I do not mean to offend any who feel otherwise!? We love our Beardies! And we do what we think is best for them. I very much respect and admire those owners who take their bearides well being seriously. These are amazing animals, and deserve good owners!

Dezi thinks his mom is the best substrate!

Thanks for such a nice response! My beardie actually does love baths and drinks while in them, and i do drop a few droplets on his nose every day. I think i may opt for tile instead of sand as i dont wan't to risk anything

NoahC · Apr 8, 2018

VenusAndSaturn":29nbclib said:
Other than being completely unatural sand also, other than impaction it can cause prolapses, joint issues, eye infections, provides a place for tons of bacteria to breed, so not very clean even if you do spot clean it, and it can cause scale rot sometimes, it also can cause fungal infections. And of course death.

Not a very experienced petstore if they're selling a highly dangerous substrate. Probably just wanted to make a buck or two rather than caring too much about the animals well beings, or they just dont know anything about reptiles like most petstores.

As for other substrates you can use non adhesive shelf liner, tile (I'd recommend this), newspaper, and repticarpet.

Also just wondering what type of UVB light do you have and what basking/night time bulbs do you use?

The petstore have been running for 45 years apparently and they've given me fantastic advice so far which I checked on here to see whether it was legit and it has been.. they've kept their beardies on sand for the whole time they've been running and are trusted by the RSPCA (The animal rescue and care service in the UK) to look after sick beardies that people have abandoned or don't know how to care for. I don't doubt their experience, I just feel like they're the type of people who have used sand and have never had a problem. Thanks for the reccomendation of tile, I think I'll end up going for that

. Can't say the bulbs off the top of my head

Edit: the store don't just sell the animals but many of them are their pets and they're all very passionate about them, and one of the guys who works there occasionally stays the night with the animals just to check they're all ok! They have a huge range of reptiles, tortoises, leopard geckos, tegus, monitors, chameleons and loads of snake species and even tarantuIas! Freaks me out thinking anyone would want a spider as a pet but each to their own i guess xD . I think about 50% of the pets on show actually belong to them

NoahC · Apr 8, 2018

Tarbie":287zogmp said:
For a baby beardie, I'd go with paper substrate or no substrate at all. Too much risk of impaction, or infection if he's pooping in his viv.

We have Tony on sand these days but he's 18 months old, eats either outside of his viv or from my hands, and never poops in his viv. I prefer it as Tony enjoys digging. I wouldn't go for it if Tony was prone to pooping in his viv however, the sand just accumulates bacteria.

Thanks for the advice

. Yeah, maybe sand wouldn't be best for Jareth as he poops daily inside his viv. I think tile might be a good option having read all these replies

dezismom · Apr 8, 2018

That shop sounds like a very cool place! I wish we had one like it around here...I am much the same mind about big spiders (or any spiders) as pets, but, hey, I would not have believed that a lizard would become such a dear companion, either! I had no idea they could be so emotional and expressive. My boy Dezi follows me around the house, knows his name, and recognises people once he gets to know them. After a few months, I learned his body language and expressions, and we communicate all the time. I believe they are much more intelligent than I had ever believed.

Tile is an excellent choice of substrate.

NoahC · Apr 8, 2018

dezismom":2rhr4ryp said:
That shop sounds like a very cool place! I wish we had one like it around here...I am much the same mind about big spiders (or any spiders) as pets, but, hey, I would not have believed that a lizard would become such a dear companion, either! I had no idea they could be so emotional and expressive. My boy Dezi follows me around the house, knows his name, and recognises people once he gets to know them. After a few months, I learned his body language and expressions, and we communicate all the time. I believe they are much more intelligent than I had ever believed.

Tile is an excellent choice of substrate.

The shop is fantastic and I keep going in there and sneakily placing my name and address on a post-it note incase they need a new worker xD . Yeah, I never thought he'd have such a big personality, I had a leopard gecko before Jareth who sadly died and as geckos are not really that intelligent and are sort of indifferent to people, I thought Jareth was going to be similar, but he's so clever and expressive, as you said! My friends don't believe a lizard could ever be a good pet, I can't wait until they all meet him

Terry15 · Apr 8, 2018

I did the Repti carpet for awhile. Switched to non adhesive shelf liner, so much easier, cheap, easy to clean & bugs can’t hide under it. Mine won’t poop in his tank, he runs around the house & always poops on the kitchen linoleum kitchen floor. The non adhesive shelf liner is also good to put down before tile.

NoahC · Apr 8, 2018

Terry15":1wxyfite said:
I did the Repti carpet for awhile. Switched to non adhesive shelf liner, so much easier, cheap, easy to clean & bugs can’t hide under it. Mine won’t poop in his tank, he runs around the house & always poops on the kitchen linoleum kitchen floor. The non adhesive shelf liner is also good to put down before tile.

Thanks! I'll look it up

VenusAndSaturn · Apr 8, 2018

The thing is though, just because you guys decided to risk your beardies lives and health why should we have a new owner do the same and then have them potentially watch as their dragon dies in their hands? No one should have that happen to them when cause of death could have been avoided.

Post by Tarbie » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:33 am

Where is the risk?

As I said, Tony neither eats, nor poops in his viv. The sand gets changed every few months, and I'd change it straight away in the unlikely event that he pooped in it. Don't get me wrong, wouldn't have dreamt of using sand as a substrate when he was a baby.

Also worth bearing in mind that I live in Africa. We don't have Petco or anything like that, and our choice of supplies here is extremely limited.

Dunno where you get "little or no experience" from either. We've raised Tony since he was a hatchling without any serious health problems, and we research a lot. Me and my wife have also both kept reptiles before.

So yeah, maybe "pretty stupid" in your eyes. In reality, we've got a happy healthy beardie who's doing just fine thanks!

Also there are still risks, just because you don't feed him inside the viv doesn't mean he's not slowly building sand up in his stomach every time he licks something. Why even put a beardie on something they are not supposed to live on? Why does anyone still think that any desert species lives on a pile of sand in the wild?

Maybe you guys didnt research enough as impaction, prolapses, fungal infections, scale rot, joint issues, eye infections and bacteria breeding will still happen even when theres correct care. Even if he doesn't poop in his substrate theres still quite a bit of bacteria in that litter box that he's living in.

Post by dezismom » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:48 am
he key is, use the calcium sand, not colored, and keep it clean and dry.

Calcium sand? Thats even worse than normal sand, and I should know I had both my first beardies die on it, the adult lasted a few years before dying and the baby didnt even last a week or so and it was only on it for about 5-10 minutes because we thought it should see the adult enclosure.

Tarbie · Apr 8, 2018

VenusAndSaturn":21k1gks4 said:
The thing is though, just because you guys decided to risk your beardies lives and health why should we have a new owner do the same and then have them potentially watch as their dragon dies in their hands? No one should have that happen to them when cause of death could have been avoided.

Post by Tarbie » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:33 am

Where is the risk?

As I said, Tony neither eats, nor poops in his viv. The sand gets changed every few months, and I'd change it straight away in the unlikely event that he pooped in it. Don't get me wrong, wouldn't have dreamt of using sand as a substrate when he was a baby.

Also worth bearing in mind that I live in Africa. We don't have Petco or anything like that, and our choice of supplies here is extremely limited.

Dunno where you get "little or no experience" from either. We've raised Tony since he was a hatchling without any serious health problems, and we research a lot. Me and my wife have also both kept reptiles before.

So yeah, maybe "pretty stupid" in your eyes. In reality, we've got a happy healthy beardie who's doing just fine thanks!

Click to expand...

Also there are still risks, just because you don't feed him inside the viv doesn't mean he's not slowly building sand up in his stomach every time he licks something. Why even put a beardie on something they are not supposed to live on? Why does anyone still think that any desert species lives on a pile of sand in the wild?

Maybe you guys didnt research enough as impaction, prolapses, fungal infections, scale rot, joint issues, eye infections and bacteria breeding will still happen even when theres correct care. Even if he doesn't poop in his substrate theres still quite a bit of bacteria in that litter box that he's living in.

Post by dezismom » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:48 am
he key is, use the calcium sand, not colored, and keep it clean and dry.

Click to expand...

Calcium sand? Thats even worse than normal sand, and I should know I had both my first beardies die on it, the adult lasted a few years before dying and the baby didnt even last a week or so and it was only on it for about 5-10 minutes because we thought it should see the adult enclosure.

Right, so you've killed 2 Bearded Dragons, and you're lecturing me on how to care for mine?!!

Brilliant! Ha ha

What are the best substrates?

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Slight smell odd color and in smaller quantities (poop)

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