Bioactive tank? Substrate

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Thrane

New member
Hey there all :D

Me and my boyfriend have toyed with the idea of a bearded dragon for some time, and I've done some research (a fair amount of it consisting on lurking in these forums :lol: )

However, one aspect I haven't been able to find much information on; would it be possible to keep a dragon in a bioactive terrarium?
And in that case, what sort of substrate can you use that wont harm the dragon, and still allow springtails and similar creatures to thrive and clean up?

On a similar note, what plants could live along with the beardie?

I know keeping plants alive will be a hassle, and it will be necessary to watch the humidity with a careful eye, but it is very much something I'm prepared to at lest give a try :D

So far, this is the list of beardie safe plants, that wouldn't be immediately gobbled up;

Jade tree
Carex Buchananii
Snake plants
Yucca
Aloe vera (mixed opinions on this one??)

Is there any other plants that might thrive with the bearded dragon?

Thanks so much in advance :p
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Bioactive is worth a shot if you have the space. You'll need enough depth to build drainage layers and then put on soil and leaf litter. Then it's a balance of the isopods to keep everything humming along. I haven't tried it myself yet so I don't have a lot of detail to offer beyond that though.
 

Sassy123

Member
I would check out the Biodude's site. He has EVERYTHING you need for bioactive environments, including ones for beardies!
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Your dragon wont get any benefits from a pretty bioactive setup , and will likely develop health issues because of it.

Unless you are reproducing the kind of environment using soils and plants from tropical central Australia my advise is don't bother, it's more bother than it's worth.

The natural range of bearded dragons is mostly spinifex grasslands and woodlands (Australia's equivalent of tropical sevannahs) see https://www.google.com.au/search?q=spinifex+region&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiLt-qwgsDXAhWInJQKHUESBW0QsAQIVg&biw=1649&bih=972
 

3magpie3

Member
kingofnobbys":235ohvvn said:
Your dragon wont get any benefits from a pretty bioactive setup , and will likely develop health issues because of it.

Unless you are reproducing the kind of environment using soils and plants from tropical central Australia my advise is don't bother, it's more bother than it's worth.

The natural range of bearded dragons is mostly spinifex grasslands and woodlands (Australia's equivalent of tropical sevannahs) see https://www.google.com.au/search?q=spinifex+region&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiLt-qwgsDXAhWInJQKHUESBW0QsAQIVg&biw=1649&bih=972

What kind of health issues? I've read a pretty comprehensive post about how it works specifically for dragons, and if done right it seems that it would benefit, not hurt one. I am coming from a completely newbie viewpoint though, (have never owned one, am just researching), so am genuinely curious about your response.

It makes sense to me in that a planted aquarium makes sense: yes, initially it's more work but ultimately it creates a nice natural habitat with enrichment for the inhabitants, and ultimately can balance out to make less work for the owner. (Again, I know VERY little! Educate me!)
 

HowlettFang

New member
3magpie3":1c5kriyn said:
kingofnobbys":1c5kriyn said:
Your dragon wont get any benefits from a pretty bioactive setup , and will likely develop health issues because of it.

Unless you are reproducing the kind of environment using soils and plants from tropical central Australia my advise is don't bother, it's more bother than it's worth.

The natural range of bearded dragons is mostly spinifex grasslands and woodlands (Australia's equivalent of tropical sevannahs) see https://www.google.com.au/search?q=spinifex+region&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiLt-qwgsDXAhWInJQKHUESBW0QsAQIVg&biw=1649&bih=972

What kind of health issues? I've read a pretty comprehensive post about how it works specifically for dragons, and if done right it seems that it would benefit, not hurt one. I am coming from a completely newbie viewpoint though, (have never owned one, am just researching), so am genuinely curious about your response.

It makes sense to me in that a planted aquarium makes sense: yes, initially it's more work but ultimately it creates a nice natural habitat with enrichment for the inhabitants, and ultimately can balance out to make less work for the owner. (Again, I know VERY little! Educate me!)
I too would be very interested in reading the answer to this.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
>>> where to start

Issues that are very likely are
>>> impraction from the ingestion of the substrate
>>> RI from constant high humidity
>>> skin conditions due to very high bacterial, viral and fungal loads in the media (um substrate) due to damp excreta laying about and being composted
>>> eye issues see above.

If you are going to reproduce the habitat found in the natural range of bearded dragons , including the same grasses and herbs, same ancient highly weathered clays, same humidities and temperatures , this will be fine , but I can't see someone living outside Australia having access to the correct plants and substrate.
 

3magpie3

Member
kingofnobbys":iqbswlrc said:
>>> where to start

Issues that are very likely are
>>> impraction from the ingestion of the substrate
>>> RI from constant high humidity
>>> skin conditions due to very high bacterial, viral and fungal loads in the media (um substrate) due to damp excreta laying about and being composted
>>> eye issues see above.

If you are going to reproduce the habitat found in the natural range of bearded dragons , including the same grasses and herbs, same ancient highly weathered clays, same humidities and temperatures , this will be fine , but I can't see someone living outside Australia having access to the correct plants and substrate.

I'm not trying to be contrary, just looking for more open discussion.

I've been shown this resource, which counters some of your points. It makes it clear that a bioactive system takes work, and that it isn't a good setup for a dragon that's not already healthy, but also makes other interesting points.

http://bdogroup.org/gencare/bioact/bioact.pdf

Again, my intent is learning here, not pot-stirring. It's interesting to me how polarizing a topic this can be. I'm trying to think of something like this that applies to aquarium fish keeping but can't off the top of my head. I mean some people don't want live plants in their tanks but it's not like those who don't say that plants are bad for the fish or vice-versa.

And I personally don't see bioactive to be the same thing as a biotope which would be using correct plants, etc. I just see it as a way to use a more natural substrate than tile or shelf liner. I do find the excavating clay setups to be interesting.
 

cygnus

New member
I too want to get a bearded dragon and keep it in a bioactive viv.

It just makes more sense than tile or newspaper. They're kept active by hunting the cuc especially if you include feeders like dubia. Some even keep crickets in their bioactive viv but I've been recommended not to do that because they smell :) Your dragon won't get bitten by any of the cuc because there'll be plenty of food in the substrate to keep them fed. Crickets only bite dragons in sterile environments because they're hungry and have nothing else to eat.

I've joined some facebook groups and a lot of people do it without any issue. In fact, the groups that seem to have most dragons with health problems seem to be those that are kept in sterile environments. There could be explanations for that like people who use bioactive have better husbandry or maybe they're more likely to go straight to a vet instead of instantly posting in a facebook group. I could be wrong but it's something I've started to notice.

I highly recommend the facebook group Bearded Dragons Network. They're very pro bioactive though not all members use bioactive but they don't jump down your throat no matter what setup you have, unlike other facebook groups that call you evil if you even mention loose substrate. They will point out mistakes and try to help if they spot any. I haven't posted in the group myself yet because I'm using it to read and learn. I have a lot of questions I want to ask so it's only a matter of time before I do.

There's another very good bio guide in the files section of the Bearded Dragons Network group so you could read that for other ideas.
 

Taterbug

BD.org Addict
Loose substrate is a pretty hot topic, and I think there are only a handful of people on this forum that use or support bioactive. The other forums are probably going to be more useful and friendly about any questions you have. There is some good rationale on both sides and what works great for some people doesn't work for others. There are wrong ways to do anything, bioactive isn't a perfect or fool proof thing either. That doesn't mean its impossible or even terribly hard.

Pepper has been on bioactive since he was about 9 months old, and that's been 3 or 4 years now? He's still one of the healthiest dragons my vet sees and has routinely tested negative for parasites since being on bioactive. I recommend it to anyone who has the time and energy to do it. I have seen more excellent bioactive habitats than I have seen 'sterile' ones. My own personal feelings and some general observations of other bioactive beardie keepers.... Enclosures are larger - not just to accommodate the substrate but because there is acknowledgment that standard caging sizes are inadequately small. Enclosures are more well lit - Plants need lots of light to be happy. Dragons need light to be happy. Once you have a big enclosure you need more lights to keep it bright and warm. I have about $200 into my lighting, more if you count the electronics. Enclosures have a lot more enrichment - When you don't have to remove every scrap of decor to clean you can get a lot more creative. I have at least 100lb of rocks and branches in my setup, some of the branches are more than 4' long and get used all the time.

I also keep my feeder insects (dubia and superworms) on bioactive, as well as my three snakes.

Bioactive does not mean tropical. Bioactive means a system with a living substrate. I have two very successful arid setups. Proper use of debris, leaf litter and other refuges give the cleaner crew damp places to live and keep the air from being any more humid than the air in the rest of the room. I find it way more challenging to keep humidity high, actually.

Sterile environments aren't always safer. Think hospitals. A well established system will make quick work of any waste. Pepper's cleaner crew will clean up feces in about 30-60mins if its on the dirt. Also. The goal isn't to have your lizard living in a pile of its own feces. The best bioactive setups have lots of environmental enrichment meaning the dragon can CHOOSE where to be and how much exposure to the substrate it wants to have. Pepper spends most of his time up in his branches or on his ladder, he doesn't loaf around in the dirt and the surface of the substrate is dry anyway - you don't actually want a soggy soil.

Feel free to PM me any questions if you want, if i don't have an answer i can help you find one.
Another good resource: https://www.facebook.com/groups/454242811428496/
 

Stres

Hatchling Member
I know this thread is a month old but if you do decide to go for a bioactive setup I can't recommend this soil enough

https://www.reptilecentre.com/arcadia-earth-mix-arid-substrate-10-litres_p31596907.htm#.WjkznoHLfqA

89302-9185516312.jpg

Designed for beardies and other arid reptiles iv never once found a single stone or stick in this stuff and when mixed with a bit of clay forms a nice compact substrate allowing the dragon to do its natural Behaviour like dig and burrow (somewhat) without falling to pieces. Arcadia seem to always be looking further into replicating lizards natural environments and supplements to provide the best for captive lizards and iv had zero issues so far using there products and they seem highly recommended in the u.k
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
I think that stuff is a high impaction risk.... and is nothing like the soils bearded dragons live on in their natural range.
 
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