First setup - UVB question

I'm new here, and hoping for some advise on buying supplies and equipment for my very first bearded dragon. I've wanted a beardie since I was 16, but only recently have circumstances allowed this to become a reality. I am now 36.

In the past few weeks, I've been doing lots of research and reading any bit of information and advise I can find. Although I have to admit that although I've read beardies make excellent first lizards, I'm a little overwhelmed with the vast difference in opinions on how to provide ideal care.

So, my first question is regarding getting the right cage. Since I'm quite frankly a liability when left alone with even a screwdriver, I'm having my cage custom built for me.

I won't actually be able to go ahead with the order until early October, but I'm hoping for advise and comments from you all before then, so I can be sure I'm buying what my new dragon needs. I'm getting the cage from BigAppleHerp - I like their customer service so far, and their prices seem comparable to other places I've seen. ( here's a link to the cage ). Plus, the cage looks like it should work for a dragon.

The cage will be 72" x 24" x 24". My first question is whether this is too high? Wiil it make it difficult to keep temperatures right? Are there any other problems with this cage size that I might not be aware of? ( I know a baby might find it too large, so I have plans to partition it into a smaller cage for the first few months if need be. )

My second question is regarding UVB light. I've read that the UVB should run the length of the cage. I'm looking into a ReptiSun 10.0 as these seem to be what most people on here recommend. The largest size ReptiSun is (if I remember correctly) is 48". Is this enough, or should I buy two 36" and place them in a row to cover the whole cage length?

Final question (for now), with the cage size I've described, should I go for the ReptiSun t5 or t8?

Thanks (and sorry for the long post).

That cage is a great size and not too tall at all in my opinion. Once your bearded begins to grow your going to be thankful you went ahead and got a large sized enclosure that will be plenty of room for him/her for life. I have found when a cage is too low I'm unable to get a good basking temp without also making my floor temps too high. This should allow you plenty of space to put a large basking platform in the cage for the dragon to climb up on in order to be within the correct range of his UVB light. You may have to play around with different basking lights and watts until you find a bulb or two that works best for your set up.

As far as UVB lights go you want him to have a section of the cage where there is no light. This way he/she can get out of it and cool off from time to time if they choose to. Either one of those sizes would be fine, the standard is it should cover 3/4ths of the enclosure. Some people have them cover the entire enclosure which is fine too but even than you want to provide the dragon with a hideout so he can get some shade if he chooses. Reptisun 10.0 is a great choice! As far as T5 or t8 I would personally go ahead and go with the T5. Even though t8s are recommending for mounting inside the tank, with that much height you can't go wrong with the T5. The t8 would be fine as well though the T5 just makes the tank look brighter and produces a higher UVB frequency which is extra beneficial.

Hope this helps a little. Best of luck to you with everything. Keep us updated and take plenty pics of your new baby once you get him/her ?

I agree, that's a great tank to have. 24'' isn't too tall but I would also go with a T5 which will give you optimal UVB output at about 12'' below the light so you'll want to build a branch or other basking area to come up to within that range. I find it best to create a gradient with UVB so you'll want higher UVB over the basking area and areas of lower to no UVB and shade. A 36'' T5 mounted over the basking area should work out really well. The ReptiSun 10 is a nice bulb as are the Arcadia bulbs. I use this one and it is fantastic http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/34-t-5-ho-fixture-high-output-with-arcadia-d3-12-ho-bulb/ A dual fixture including a 6500k bulb would make the enclosure even brighter so that might be worth looking into as well http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/36...arcadia-12-and-6-5k-day-light-bulbs-included/

Thank you to the both of you for your answers.

I am expecting to probably end up placing the UVB light on the cage's screen top. I've read that this will reduce some of the UVB rays, so do I need to adjust the height from dragon to light to take this into consideration?

The lighting links to lightyourreptiles.com were really interesting - but I have to admit to being a little put off by them simply because I don't quite understand what exactly the product is, (therefore I don't feel as confident about knowing how to set it up in the cage correctly) or how easy it would be to replace when the bulbs need changing.

Also, I was going to buy an oak stand and canopy with the cage. Is it okay to use a canopy on a beardie cage, or would it cause problems with temperature control? I have asked for a custom height of 12" for the canopy, as I was worried the 9" high default size might be too low to fit certain light fixtures.

Screens can reduce output by around 30% or so. The T5 lighting from LightYourReptiles consists of a high quality Arcadia T5 bulb and a reflective fixture to direct the UVB downward. The high output allows for basking levels of UVB at around 12-14'' from the bulb. Through a screen that's more like 10-12'' so you want to mount it with those distances from the highest end of the basking site in mind. The T5 bulbs are also longer lasting than the older T8 bulbs. They can run well for over a year while the T8 bulbs usually need replacement every 6 months or so. I have one and it sits right on top of my tank, 12'' above the highest basking spot.

^i completely agree with the above user. Notice the distance his T5 is from his beardies basking site, that is a perfect range that you should aim for. It's okay if the ground level is a larger distance away as long as you have something to serve as a basking spot like a log or fake rock for your beardie to climb on and get a little closer to the UVB.
As far as the canopy I'm a little confused/curious about what you mean. Do you mean an actual canopy coming from the cage? If so that sounds really cool actually lol. Can you post any pictures of an example? Whatever your overall plans consist of, as long as nothing interferes with your beardie getting UVB lighting and being able to see out of the front of the enclosure for stimulation purposes, I don't see why not. In my experience no matter what set up you choose (even a simple store bought enclosure) you will most likely have to play around with different heat bulbs and watts until you find what produces the ideal temps for your set up. I went through 5 different bulbs before I finally got it right lol, my poor girl hung in there with me through the struggle. But you will eventually discover what works for you.

I would recommend some kind of thermostat or timer that will adjust the temps to maintain them. Something like http://www.spyderrobotics.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=30

I'm definitely leaning towards getting a T5 - with a larger cage, it sounds like this is the best option. I haven't looked into a basking perch yet, but I probably need to do so when I get my lights, so I can check the heights are all in the correct temperature ranges.

I was thinking of looking for a perch made of driftwood, to help keep the nails short. Would that be the right choice?

MsCarter":sw8msfpv said:

As far as the canopy I'm a little confused/curious about what you mean. Do you mean an actual canopy coming from the cage? If so that sounds really cool actually lol. Can you post any pictures of an example? Whatever your overall plans consist of, as long as nothing interferes with your beardie getting UVB lighting and being able to see out of the front of the enclosure for stimulation purposes, I don't see why not.

Click to expand...

Here is a link to the product page.

My understanding based on the product description is that it is basically a cover that goes over the top of the cage, to conceal the lighting and heating equipment. Sorry if I caused any confusion about that in my previous post. I think the back is open, so air should be able to pass through and into the cage. - though I will double check on that before I order to make sure the cage will get enough air. My main concern was whether blocking in all the equipment might lead to problems I haven't thought of.

About the thermostat/timer - should that be connected to the UVB? I'm thinking not, because won't I need to make sure my beardie has enough light every day? Would it connect to a CHE? I think I may need to set one of those up for nights - especially in winter.

I have an on-off timer hooked up to my UVB light. I have a two outlet dimming thermostat hooked up to the basking light and a ceramic heat emitter (one on each end of the tank). The CHE is programmed to keep the tank up to a certain temp (71) overnight while the other outlet is set to keep the basking area between 98-105 during the day.

CooperDragon":1q8ry1al said:

I have an on-off timer hooked up to my UVB light. I have a two outlet dimming thermostat hooked up to the basking light and a ceramic heat emitter (one on each end of the tank). The CHE is programmed to keep the tank up to a certain temp (71) overnight while the other outlet is set to keep the basking area between 98-105 during the day.

Click to expand...

That sounds close to how I was thinking I would set mine up. But, can I just clarify - do you have two CHE's and a basking light? If you do, can you explain the reason for that - I thought the basking light was all that was needed, with the UVB and one CHE.

BrightStar":2nm7b1nn said:

I'm definitely leaning towards getting a T5 - with a larger cage, it sounds like this is the best option. I haven't looked into a basking perch yet, but I probably need to do so when I get my lights, so I can check the heights are all in the correct temperature ranges.

I was thinking of looking for a perch made of driftwood, to help keep the nails short. Would that be the right choice?

MsCarter":2nm7b1nn said:

As far as the canopy I'm a little confused/curious about what you mean. Do you mean an actual canopy coming from the cage? If so that sounds really cool actually lol. Can you post any pictures of an example? Whatever your overall plans consist of, as long as nothing interferes with your beardie getting UVB lighting and being able to see out of the front of the enclosure for stimulation purposes, I don't see why not.

Click to expand...

Here is a link to the product page.

My understanding based on the product description is that it is basically a cover that goes over the top of the cage, to conceal the lighting and heating equipment. Sorry if I caused any confusion about that in my previous post. I think the back is open, so air should be able to pass through and into the cage. - though I will double check on that before I order to make sure the cage will get enough air. My main concern was whether blocking in all the equipment might lead to problems I haven't thought of.

About the thermostat/timer - should that be connected to the UVB? I'm thinking not, because won't I need to make sure my beardie has enough light every day? Would it connect to a CHE? I think I may need to set one of those up for nights - especially in winter.

Click to expand...

Ah I see now, forgive me I had a "slow" moment lol. I don't think that would hurt at all. It would actually look really nice. Since your mounting your light fixtures inside of the actual enclosure, something like this would be fine. You will have to share pics of your finished product so that we can all admire it

I have 1 CHE (it's actually a mega-ray heat projector which runs much cooler) that sits over the cool side and 1 90w PAR38 halogen flood light over the basking area. The flood light runs on a dimmer setting and the heat projector is on a pulse setting (it hummed when dimmed) and it only comes on when it gets cold during the winter.

The idea for a second CHE is to act as a supplemental heat source in case your main basking light doesn't get the temps up high enough. This is a common problem with some mercury vapor bulbs which need to be put at a set distance based on UVB output rather than heat. That's why I like to be able to control UVB and heat separately by using a T5 tube for UVB and flood light for heat.

Thanks everyone for the advise. I'm glad to learn that I've mostly been thinking along the right lines for my beardie setup. I probably won't be able to get my little one until December, but I'm going to be using the time until then to get everything set up, and keep learning as much as I can.

I think I'll be getting two 30" T5's and placing them along the length of the cage ( on top of the screen cover - I don't feel comfortable about being able to safely mount equipment inside the cage). Then I'll have a basking light for day, and a CHE for cold nights. I'll definitely think about an additional CHE for day, if I can't get the temperature gradients right with just the basking light. If I did need an additional CHE, where would be best to position it? Middle of cage?

I hope that all sounds right. I know I'll need thermometers to check the temperatures. How many do you recommend, and where should I place them? I'm looking into the probe type and the laser gun type - not sure if I should get both kinds though.

All of that sounds great and well planned out. It's nice to hear someone doing so much research and getting a good environment together before hand
Cooper can probably help you out regarding to best location for the second CHE as I have not needed one yet. For thermometers I keep a probe end one in her enclosure at all times to monitor her warm side. This way I can look over at anytime and see if her warm side is in the correct range. If it isn't I know the basking spot and cool side is probably off as well. In which case I grab the temp gun and check/make adjustments.
It's completely up to you how many you would like to have. Some like one on the cool side and the warm side. Whatever you choose I do highly recommend a temp gun they make checking temps all through the enclosure so quick and simple. You can get them on Amazon at very good prices (think I paid 12-15 for mine)

If you are looking for a second day bulb you could probably get away with a household incandescent bulb as opposed to splurging on a CHE.