Rescued Adult Beardie

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Let me just start by saying this is a long story.

I am caring for a male beardie that I am estimating to be a year old (because of his size). Two bearded dragons were dropped off at a local reptile store in horrible condition (one male, one female), the owner didn't provide any other information about them and turned out to be wrong on the sexes even. The male was thin and dull, lethargic; the female was very tiny, bones protruding, didn't move, couldn't even lift her head, she was grey. Both dragons had burn marks on them in multiple areas at varying levels of severity, both had damaged tails, she had a dead finger(toe), he had a blue stain on his belly. They were kept together for the apparent belief that they were keeping each other alive (which I'm sure was probably the opposite). ]

From there they went to another reptile business, whom did not take proper care either. He sold them to a staff member with a tank, dirty carpet, no lights, a dog dish and a fake rock that had worms living in it. The staff member was my roommate. He got the lights and some super worms for them and they showed slight improvement with proper care, I spent hours a day with them in an attempt to nurse them back to health.

The male took pretty quickly, ate his food, basked, loved his baths, very active, regular BMs. The female, not so much; I had to force feed her baby food until she worked up to worms. It took between 10 minutes and half an hour to get her to eat a single worm. She did eventually get a little better, her colour came back, she was eating at least 5 worms a day, moving a little more.

My roomate ran into financial difficulty and didn't have much money, they went without worms, the light burnt out and never got replaced, the tank didn't get cleaned. They went without food for long periods of time, the light was missing for two months. I'm not even going to get into how I feel about this happening because, this isn't a rant. If I had've had the money to help, I would have, I bought worms when I could but, it wasn't enough. The female died, it was absolutely heart breaking.

At this point, I was a little bit more financially stable so, I took the animal and have got him what I can. He has a constant source of proper food, I am using non-adhesive cork as a temporary substrate (until I find the tiles I am looking for), he has proper UVB and heat lighting, lots of basking rocks, a hammock, a background, proper water dish and a climbing tree. I'm working on a hide.

I basically would like tips for how to get him healthy again and to trust me. I really just want him to have a happy life because he deserves it at this point. I would also like to know if anyone can give tips on how to calculate his age?

I believe they were abused by the marks and behaviour. He has equilibrium issues, misses worms by a mile half the time, sometimes scratches at his ear (not often). His ears look normal, can't see any left over shed. He just recently went through a shed, I bathe him daily most of the time anyways because he loves it so, that went smoothly. He hasn't been scratching at his ear since he shed. I have noticed he runs around frantically (glass surfing as well) when he needs to have a BM. I put him in the bathe to do his business and he is usually fine after.

I also noticed he has had stress marks on and off since I changed his tank. The condition was deplorable before so, I doubt he misses it. Another behaviour I am unsure of is, when I'm holding him and walking. If I don't move very slowly, he panics and throws his limbs in the air like I'm going to drop him. He likes interaction, closes his eyes when I pet him on his head, he doesn't move away when I try to pick him up (unless it's to take him out of the bath lol), he climbs on me and such. He is fine if I'm holding him and standing still or sitting down.

I can't get him to eat his veg. I have tried just green (varied between endive and collard greens), mixed them with veg (tried broccoli, carrot, red peppers, celery), mixing in fruit (apple, raspberries, banana, mango), with and without vitamin powder. I have also tried misting it, putting worms in it. The first few times, he picked the worms out and accidentally ate some but, he's learned now. Unless he's very hungry, he wont eat them out of the salad. I have also tried putting it on a white paper towel (I read they like the colour contrast), didn't work either. I got him to eat a little bit of shredded carrot once when he was really hungry but, that was it.

He is only eating like 6 worms a day, sometimes a couple more. I'll offer him more on the substrate, in the dish, from tongs or from my hand and he'll ignore them. I'm not sure how to increase his appetite. I've also noticed his urates have gotten smaller. He is well hydrated, as I said I do bath him almost daily and he has fresh water at all times.

If you have made it this far, you deserve an award and thank you for sticking with it.
Well that's all. Any tips on any of these problems/questions, would be amazingly appreciated as this was thrust upon me. Not that I am not more than happy to have him, I love that little guy. :)
Btw his name is Salvador.
 

DaddyGeek

Juvie Member
Okay, first off I am no vet but a few things I have to say may help a bit.

1. Regarding the equilibrium issue where he is missing food by a mile and flails a lot if you move him too fast. Most beardies flail if you move too quickly. However, if you feel you aren't going faster than is reasonable then that combined with the missing food thing reminds me of a rescue I had that had sustained a severe head trauma at one point in their life. There may not be much you can do for that situation. I would consult a vet if you ever have the money to do so. I ended up having to hand feed mine for the remainder of his life.

2. The veggies issue is a tough one. I would suggest using a blender to make them into a slurry and syringe feeding him for a while just to be sure he is getting his veggies. You will probably have to force it a bit, just be gentle and be prepared to be nipped a bit.

3. Trust, it sounds like you are doing just fine in this department and it just takes time. I had a female that it took six months to get her to trust me. She was vicious, she actually actively sought out my hands to bite me whenever I opened her cage. I snuggled her everyday until one day she just decided she liked me. Instead of running up to bite me she ran up, laid on my hand and licked me. Just keep snuggling him, petting him and hand feeding. You might also give him a t-shirt of yours to sleep on. Wear it around all day then fold it up and let him snuggle into it at night.

4. Appetite can be stimulated by using things like repta boost and carnivore critical care. All of those things can be found on:

http://www.beardeddragon.co/index.php?route=product/category&path=60

They are a great resource for any owner. They have a ton of items to help nurse dragons back to health. I would suggest making the veggie slurries daily combined with the vitamin powders and calcium powder. There is a nutrition chart located here that will help you see what veggies/fruits to give and not to give:

http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html


Give him as many live feeders as you can get him to eat and if you can then consider purchasing some of the carnivore care and repta boost to try and give him a leg up. Hopefully this gives you a good place to start, I'm sure someone else here can suggest more. Unfortunately, I have a screaming 5 month kiddo old I need to take care of at the moment lol That should get you started though.
 

Fthemainstream

Member
Original Poster
Thanks for the reply! Honestly, wouldn't surprise me if he had a brain injury at some point. He is a total kamikaze and will jump off anything from any height. I usually give him a chance to get the worms himself but, if he misses a couple times i pick it up for him. I will try blending up veggies, I think I saw him eat a tiny piece of apple the other day so, baby steps. Oddly enough he won't eat the cut salads but, last time he was outside he was eating grass! I obviously was paying attention so, I stopped him. Sounds like a good idea, familiarizing him with my scent. I've been letting him sleep on me while I watch a movie, hopefully that helps.I will definitely look into picking up an appetite stimulant, now that I know they exist. lol Thank you very much for all of your advice!
 

DaddyGeek

Juvie Member
No problem, I've been at it a while and got most of that advice from these very forums years ago. Keep at it, sounds like you really care and I'm confident things will improve quickly :D
 

Fthemainstream

Member
Original Poster
Update to original post:

If you anyone has any additional advice or pointers, please tell.

He's now up to almost ten insects a day most days, varies between mostly supers, wax worms if he can get them, the odd cricket (I really effing hate crickets so, he only gets the odd stolen from my boyfriends spidey) and sporadic hornworms.

Trying to get him to eat a little bit of flora, I dabbed some peach vegetable applesauce with vitamin powder on his nose. He seemed to like it. I searched up info about beardies and applesauce and found mixed results so, I decided to try a little, AFTER reading the ingredients list to check for added sugars, unsafe fruits or vegetables and such. We left to go out for the day yesterday and he wasn't interested in insects before we left so, I left a feeder bowl full of applesauce, maybe a tsp and a half. When I came back it was licked clean so, I assume he liked it. I am going to start making my own by pureeing various fruits/veggies/greens but, I am wondering if he doesn't take to that; if it would be safe for me to give him the applesauce on occasion, just so get's some vegetation in him? Side note: After I got home and he had eaten the applesauce, I offered him worms and he had no interest whatsoever.

With the equilibrium issue, I have noticed a few new "symptoms". If I spray a certain spot on his head when I'm misting him, he closes his eyes his leg twitches. It is exactly like a dog when you scratch their belly. I thought it may have been for the same reason as a dog but, I know with beardies there's all kinds of stuff to watch for and thought it may be related. Also when I picked him up last night his head twitched, it was only for approx. a second but, he was very jumpy after that, which he usually isn't when I hold him. I know the twitch can be a sign of metabolic bone disease, which would make sense because of all he's been through but, is that possible symptom severe enough to be related to MBD?


Thanks again, although most of you were too lazy to read the whole thing.
 

DaisyDragon123

Sub-Adult Member
I suggest taking him to the vet for a complete work up and fecal exam. It would be a good idea to have a yearly wellness exam thereafter. It may be a long drive to a qualified reptile vet, but dragons transport very easily.
 

Fthemainstream

Member
Original Poster
The vet would be the best option. I haven't heard good reviews of the herp vets in my area, though we would be willing to travel within reason, a trip to the vet really isn't in the budget at the moment. I've spent hundreds of unexpected dollars that I didn't have, just getting him the equipment required to keep him alive so, he's definitely tapped me out for now :/ The plan was to get a dragon when I was more financially stable but, he needed help. I'm going to get him to the vet as soon as it's feasible.
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Which part of Ontario are you in? There is a small animal clinic at the vet school in Guelph. Might be a good option if you're in the GTA. Hopefully just having good lighting and a proper diet in place will allow him to bounce back on his own after a while.
 

Fthemainstream

Member
Original Poster
Guelph is not too far from me actually, that could work. Thanks for the tip!
I got him the 24" reptisun 10.0 for UVB, 100 watt heat bulb, he can get about 7-8 inches away from. I don't have a thermometer yet, waiting on the mail but, he feels warm. I am planning to purchase a Mega-ray MVB soon so that he can get more UVB, as I understand it is exponentially better than the reptisun. I recently found out the light he had came with was not doing anything at all as far as UVB. He gets to go outside for at least an hour when it's warm enough, only a few times this year so far. As far as diet, I have superworms, usually hornworms, wax worms and crickets sporadically. For the flora portion, endive, collard greens, mango, butternut squash, strawberries sporadically as well as apples. I dust everything with a combo of vitamin and calcium powder (mostly vitamin because I know they can't have too much calcium). He won't eat any of it except for the hornworms which made him puke (there is another post in regards to that). I would've updated this post about the vomiting but, I'm fairly certain it was due to the worm itself not to his issues.
 

Fthemainstream

Member
Original Poster
Salvador is doing much better now! He passed a seminal plug the other day and showed immediate improvement after that. He ate 4 superworms that night, unfortunately no veg but, today he ate 11 supers, one wax worm and actually ate a little bit of endive! I had to wiggle it like a worm but, to my surprise for the first time, he chomped it. This worked twice and then he ate a large piece stuck to a worm...sucker :D Thanks for the replies!
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
I'm glad to hear he's feeling better! The 24'' ReptiSun 10 will be fine for UVB as long as you have it within 6-8'' of the basking area with no mesh or plastic between the bulb and basking spot. I like the tubes because they provide a nice wide area of UVB coverage. If you have a good heat source as well, there's no big hurry to change. The MegaRay MVBs are very good quality but produce a fairly narrow beam of UVB. I use mine as a portable basking spot in the kitchen. If you decide to get a MVB, I'd get the 160w and mount it higher up. The 100w I have produces very little UVB beyond about 10'' and a few inches to either side. A more powerful bulb higher up should produce a wider beam for you.
 

Fthemainstream

Member
Original Poster
CooperDragon":3dw5120y said:
I'm glad to hear he's feeling better! The 24'' ReptiSun 10 will be fine for UVB as long as you have it within 6-8'' of the basking area with no mesh or plastic between the bulb and basking spot. I like the tubes because they provide a nice wide area of UVB coverage. If you have a good heat source as well, there's no big hurry to change. The MegaRay MVBs are very good quality but produce a fairly narrow beam of UVB. I use mine as a portable basking spot in the kitchen. If you decide to get a MVB, I'd get the 160w and mount it higher up. The 100w I have produces very little UVB beyond about 10'' and a few inches to either side. A more powerful bulb higher up should produce a wider beam for you.

I toiled away literal hours of my life researching reptile UVB lighting, down to how many uW's a day beardies get in the wild and how much each different bulb produces. What a messuga but, in the end I discovered that the mega-ray mercury vapour bulb is actually the closest to their natural environment, and more like being in the actual sun. The Repti-sun 10.0 came in second with being comparable to a shady area of a sunny day, which is still exponentially better than every other retail bulb. They do hover around the same price, I was considering getting both as the mega-ray lasts approximately double the span as the repti-run, it wouldn't need to be replaced as often and won't rack up much cost. I wish they had the mega ray in a tube bulb. With the repti-sun currently, it is obscured by mesh, as his tank is a screen top and my housing is exterior but, he is able to get about 4.5" away at the top of his hammock, he usually is about 5-5.5" away. Though with all of his new equipment, he seems to be declining again. Hasn't eaten for two days, started having diarrhea again. Nothing has changed in his diet or surroundings. It has been warm enough a few days to bring him outside but, now if I go near him to pick him he puffs at me and threatens to bite me! So uncharacteristic for him! He had never puffed or showed me his beard or bore teeth at me ever! I actually have to pet him with a leaf to calm him before I can grab him. He is finishing the rest of his shed, maybe he's cranky. Everytime I think he has everything he could need.....
 
I really honestly think you are doing a wonderful job in trying to help him, the most he can ask for is a human who wants to understand.

I know you've tried and searched everything,

I really think this dragon could benefit from some organic extracts. You know how to research...get some bio-available antioxidants and anti-coagulants into him
 
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