nutrition mistakes have been made :|

Status
Not open for further replies.

damogets

Member
After browsing a bit in here, I can see that I have almost certainly not provided adequate nutrition for my beardie for about 9 months here. :( When my son and I got him, he was somewhere between 3 & 6 months old. Due to poverty issues, we weren't able to get crickets for him too often. We'd pick up small crickets, gutload them with calcium, dust them as well, and get them to him for maybe 4-7 days at a time, but only once every few weeks. This was the case with occasional mealworms, as well, up until I found out about the chitin issues, and switched to occasional superworms, instead. There were serious issues getting him to eat veggies, and I foolishly made the assumption that while not ideal, pellet food would be sufficient. He seemed to eat that without any problem, though he definitely had a preference for the red & tan colored ones, as opposed to the green. I started realizing that this may be a problem when I noted that both the juvenile and adult pellets have, as a main ingredient, wheat & corn.

I'm feeling pretty terrible about this now, and I'm wondering if I can expect any health problems from him due to a nutritionally deficient juvenile, and early adulthood, diet. I'm also really hoping that there is something that I can do to mitigate any issues that may have arisen due to this, but I know I can't turn back time, and there's usually no reversing juvenile nutritional deficiencies in most animals. For what it's worth, he's pretty active, friendly, poops regularly, and doesn't seem to have any overt health issues. I believe that he's grown to about the right size, and doesn't appear to be too thin.

Recently, I've been trying to get him to eat more veggies and fruit. Kale, cherries, strawberries, apples, pears, and I'm going to try butternut squash tonight (any serious issues with raw vs. lightly cooked?), along with some diced carrots. He goes crazy, and will happily take anything red by hand, less for orange, and I still have a terrible time getting him to eat greens. Also, especially when we're feeding him something live, he really seems to like going after my son's fingers. We're guessing it's due to color, as my son (biracial) has considerably darker skin than I.

For what it's worth, the pellet types were Rep-Cal Growth Formula/Juvenile Bearded Dragon Food, up until a few weeks ago, and Rep-Cal Maintenance Formula/Adult Bearded Dragon Food. Both claim to be 'with fruit'.

So any suggestions, or comments, on the whole scenario here? Also, I'm wondering if anybody has any suggestions for getting him to eat his kale/collards/other greens?

Thank you for anything you can suggest.
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
It's good that he is active and energetic. They're tough little critters and can get through a lot. That said, if you can start to get him on a healthy balanced diet now, it will help him significantly in the long run. He is just over a year old now, correct? If that's the case, he should probably get 1 bug meal every other day and a salad every day. Offering crickets or dubia roaches is a good staple. Subbing in some black soldier fly larvae, silk worms, and horn worms as you can get them is good too. Slowly reduce his bug meals to every third day then down to once or twice a week over the next few months. Hopefully during that time you can get him more into his veges.

Salads should have 2-3 items in them and rotate depending on what you can get fresh at the store/market each week. Leftovers can be fed to roaches or crickets. I've found that with greens you can rinse them, chop them into hand sizes and put them in a quart ziploc bag with a fold of paper towel and into the fridge. My greens last several weeks this way. I like to offer collards, turnip greens, dandelion greens, bok choy greens, and mustard greens on rotation. Squash is a good veg for them. You can cook it or just chop it or grate it. I also offer green beans, chopped bell peppers, and other items on this list http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html Really the more variety you can offer the better.

In this case, since he isn't used to fresh salads he may be stubborn to switch. If you withhold bugs for a while it may help him get into his salads. First try some variety though and see if you can find his favorites.

Correct lighting and temperatures also play an important part in his ability to absorb nutrients and digest his food. What do you have in place for lighting? Can you post some photos of his setup? You can upload photos here https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ and post them using the XIMG button.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Good staple insects
>> BSF maggots
>> blowfly gents
and the pupae and flies , great for hatchlings and juveniles , naturally rich in calcium
>> silkworms
small (1-1.5 inch for sub 3 month olds)
medium (1.5 - 2 inch for larger hatchlings and juveniles)
large ( > 2 inch for beardies older than 12 months.
>> crickets / roaches / locusts , must be gutloaded with calcium rich foods and greens & dusted LIGHTLY with calcium powder.

Repashi GRUBPIE is acceptable as a backup food.

Hard and soft pellets are dubious , ok mixed in as softened croutons through their greens/salad (maybe).

Bites = rubbish food.
Canned insects = rubbish
Vacuum dried insects = rubbish.

Insects suitable for treats
wax worms

if beardie is older than 12 months , not before
mealworms (lavae , pupae and beetles)
superworms (lavae , pupae and beetles)

And follow this when settling up your pet dragon's diet and feeding schedule if it's an adult :
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=236074

At 9 months old , he really needs two meals of live insects per day , he'd probably go through 20 - 30 x medium (2/3 sized crickets) per day + some salad and REALLY NEEDS THE INSECT PROTEINS & FATS & dietary calcium & UVB to grow and develop properly , see my growth curves for Peppa & Toothless :
23sep2017_NORMALISED.png

which shows the how two healthy dragons should grow from about 5weeks old to just under 2 yrs old.

I have tried to replicate the kind of diet they would have in the wild , ie

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=230705&hilit=wild+beardies+stomach+contents

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=216836&p=1691540&hilit=wild+beardies+stomach+contents#p1691540

and this is my rough guide
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=236074

I advise cutting back on the mealworms (OK as treats ONLY) and looking at converting to crickets and roaches as your insect staples , and if you have access to a mulberry tree , buying some silkworm eggs and raising more worms that you need and harvesting eggs produced by the female moths (each will lay up to 400 eggs - doesn't take a genius to see how you can become self sufficient wrt silkworms very easily inside a month or two).

I'm retired and living on a limited income (not a rich cashed up retiree who retired with a huge nest egg or golden handshake) and I make sure my 4 pet lizards get the very best of everything .

I can do this because I raise my own silkworms and snails and I buy my superworms and crickets by mail order (the superworms a couple hundred at a time , the crickets by the 1000 every few weeks).

It's not hard to farm your own silkworms, superworms, crickets and roaches, and plenty of herp keepers and breeders do it.
Crickets will need about 6 weeks a complete life cycle, not sure about roaches, and I think superworms are likely 3- 4 months .
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
damogets":1cwp56i5 said:
After browsing a bit in here, I can see that I have almost certainly not provided adequate nutrition for my beardie for about 9 months here. :( When my son and I got him, he was somewhere between 3 & 6 months old. Due to poverty issues, we weren't able to get crickets for him too often. We'd pick up small crickets, gutload them with calcium, dust them as well, and get them to him for maybe 4-7 days at a time, but only once every few weeks. This was the case with occasional mealworms, as well, up until I found out about the chitin issues, and switched to occasional superworms, instead. There were serious issues getting him to eat veggies, and I foolishly made the assumption that while not ideal, pellet food would be sufficient. He seemed to eat that without any problem, though he definitely had a preference for the red & tan colored ones, as opposed to the green. I started realizing that this may be a problem when I noted that both the juvenile and adult pellets have, as a main ingredient, wheat & corn.

I'm feeling pretty terrible about this now, and I'm wondering if I can expect any health problems from him due to a nutritionally deficient juvenile, and early adulthood, diet. I'm also really hoping that there is something that I can do to mitigate any issues that may have arisen due to this, but I know I can't turn back time, and there's usually no reversing juvenile nutritional deficiencies in most animals. For what it's worth, he's pretty active, friendly, poops regularly, and doesn't seem to have any overt health issues. I believe that he's grown to about the right size, and doesn't appear to be too thin.
<<< how heavy is he ?
How old is his UVB light (a compact ? a T8 tube ? or aT5HO tube, or a MVB ?) ?

Recently, I've been trying to get him to eat more veggies and fruit. Kale, cherries, strawberries, apples, pears, and I'm going to try butternut squash tonight (any serious issues with raw vs. lightly cooked?), along with some diced carrots. He goes crazy, and will happily take anything red by hand, less for orange, and I still have a terrible time getting him to eat greens. Also, especially when we're feeding him something live, he really seems to like going after my son's fingers. We're guessing it's due to color, as my son (biracial) has considerably darker skin than I.

For what it's worth, the pellet types were Rep-Cal Growth Formula/Juvenile Bearded Dragon Food, up until a few weeks ago, and Rep-Cal Maintenance Formula/Adult Bearded Dragon Food. Both claim to be 'with fruit'.
<<< my advise wrt pellets is sure have them , but they are in my experience not something a lizard will voluntarily eat unless it's starving and the pellets are made more appealing by softening in juice and mixing with the salad, I have found RepCal Adult Beardie Pellets are great cricket and superworm and mealworm chow (dry straight from the bottle).


So any suggestions, or comments, on the whole scenario here? Also, I'm wondering if anybody has any suggestions for getting him to eat his kale/collards/other greens?

Thank you for anything you can suggest.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

No members online now.

Latest resources

Latest posts

Latest profile posts

Mirage entered brumation yesterday, I'm gonna miss hanging out with my little guy.
Getting ready for another day. Feeling sleepy. 😴
I just walked into my room and instead of looking at me, Swordtail's eyes darted directly to the ice cream drumstick I'm holding
Finally replaced Swordtail's substrate
I miss you so much, Amaris 💔

Forum statistics

Threads
156,086
Messages
1,257,574
Members
76,069
Latest member
mommatojack
Top Bottom