Which Calcium and Multi?!

Hey Guys, first time posting here. I have had my beardie for about 3 months now. He is 5 months old from what I can tell. 15-16 inches long from head to the tip of his tail.

I would like to know what the best quality supplements/dusters there are on the market right now. What brand do you swear by.

I rescued a very sick dragon from Petco a few months ago. They weren't taking care of him, and I think he has the beginning signs of Metabolic Bones Disease. When I got him home he was very weak, and he has no strength in his limbs. He walks on the backs of his hands, almost like there is no feeling in his hands or back legs. But I know he has feeling there, because when I pinch them a little, he does react. And he does climb, pretty well actually. So I was unsure if it was nerve related or bone related.

I took him to the doctor to have some Xrays done, and sure enough there was some bone loss. I am taking him in for some routine blood work soon just to take a gander at his liver and kidneys and make sure everything is all good. They started him on this Calcium Oral Plus supplement, but he absolutely will NOT take it. I fight him every day to get a single drop of the stuff in his mouth. He hates it, and I feel terrible making him take it because he has no idea what is going on.

I am not taking him off his meds, don't worry, this will just have to be one of those things he will grow to accept until the doctor says we can go off it.

But I do want to know what the best dusting supplements there are out there quality wise. So we can get him the right stuff moving forward. I really want to make sure these supplements get in him. So what supplements do you guys swear by?

Currently I am using Rep-Cal Calcium with Vitamin D and dusting EVERY MEAL with it.
I am also using the Rep-Cal Multivitamins 2-3x a week.

He is not really into his veggies, although I do offer it to him every single day. I feed him dandelion greens, kale, and collard greens mostly. Then I put some fruit on top of it, some blueberries and rasberries. He does occasionally eat the fruit, but not really interested in the salad. We are working on it.

Then for bugs, I give him dubias, crickets, black solider fly larvae as his main feeders. Then super worms and hornworms as his after meal dessert. Maybe like 2-3 after a meal.

This week, he just decided he was going on a food strike (after we started him on Calcium Oral Plus), and won't touch anything... Anything but superworms and hormworms. That is right! He won't touch ANYTHING but those. So I have been forced to feed him supers as a staple, at least for the time being, so he has something in his stomach to take the medicine. That is another story though, perhaps for another thread. My vet thinks its weird, but I think he is toying with me and its all psychological. I fed him nasty medicine, and this is his revenge. Fine, I will take your stupid medicine, but all I want to eat is chocolate cake for the week. No dubias, no crickets, no larvae, just super worms and hornworms. I am sure its just a rebellious phase. I am not SUPER worried about it.

What I am worried about is him walking funny, and not getting the nutrients he needs. At least with the worms, he is getting some kind of protein for now, yeah its fatty but its better than nothing. Plus I am dusting them before I give them to him, so its another way to get him to take his vitamins.

I TRIED coating a superworm in the Calcium Oral Plus medicine, thinking I was being slick, but he spit it out right away and gave me the death stare. HOW DARE YOU WOMAN! So, that didn't work...

His tank is fine, we have ReptiSun 10.00 UVB strip lights... I actually have TWO of them, one across the back of the tank, and one across the front of the tank, so whereever he is in the tank, he is getting at that light. I have a MegaRay Mercury Vapor bulb 100 watts for his basking spot. His basking temps are around 110-115, although I think it might be time to start lowering them because he is spending less time in his basking area. I know when they get older they like it a little cooler. So I might drop it down to a 70 watt, and go for 95-105 and see if that changes his behavior. The cool side of the tank is about 80-85 degrees depending if I have the AC on or not. I have a repticarpet. A climbing tree thing. Basking rocks. Caves. Trust me, he is spoiled rotten. He is in a nice spacious 40gal with tons of stuff to climb on while I am at work. I think the husbandry is fine. Just trying to get my little guy to recover a little faster and make sure he is developing properly.

I'm glad you're able to give him such good care. I'm hopeful that will help him bounce back. As far as supplements go, it's good that he's on the liquid calcium (when he will take it). As far as powdered supplements, I use Repashy products exclusively. I feel they are the best available. It's important to combine the supplementation with proper UVB exposure so that he can put the nutrients to good use. Which ReptiSun tubes are you using? T8 or T5? How far are they above the tank? I would still give him the option to move into shade and get away from UVB if he wants to so it may be a good idea to reconfigure the lighting a little bit. It depends on what types of bulbs and distances though.

I would definitely lower the basking area temps. 100-105 is plenty. There should be a good gradient down to about 75-80 or so on the other side of the tank, giving him plenty of spots in between to choose from. I like doing this with UVB as well with the most intense UVB over the basking site. A 100w MegaRay should produce appropriate UVB levels at about 12'' above the basking spot. The downside is that you can't control heat independently and the MVB needs to be mounted based on UVB output. I use a couple of the MegaRay 100w MVBs but I use them as portable basking lights around the house rather than in the main tank. I use this in the main tank http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/22-t-5-ho-fixture-high-output-with-arcadia-d3-12-ho-bulb/ and it's the best UVB light combo I've seen & tested so far. If you can give me more details about the dimensions of his tank and types of lighting in place I'll be glad to help you fine tune everything so it's just right

CooperDragon":30hqhw6e said:

I'm glad you're able to give him such good care. I'm hopeful that will help him bounce back. As far as supplements go, it's good that he's on the liquid calcium (when he will take it). As far as powdered supplements, I use Repashy products exclusively. I feel they are the best available. It's important to combine the supplementation with proper UVB exposure so that he can put the nutrients to good use. Which ReptiSun tubes are you using? T8 or T5? How far are they above the tank? I would still give him the option to move into shade and get away from UVB if he wants to so it may be a good idea to reconfigure the lighting a little bit. It depends on what types of bulbs and distances though.

I would definitely lower the basking area temps. 100-105 is plenty. There should be a good gradient down to about 75-80 or so on the other side of the tank, giving him plenty of spots in between to choose from. I like doing this with UVB as well with the most intense UVB over the basking site. A 100w MegaRay should produce appropriate UVB levels at about 12'' above the basking spot. The downside is that you can't control heat independently and the MVB needs to be mounted based on UVB output. I use a couple of the MegaRay 100w MVBs but I use them as portable basking lights around the house rather than in the main tank. I use this in the main tank http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/22-t-5-ho-fixture-high-output-with-arcadia-d3-12-ho-bulb/ and it's the best UVB light combo I've seen & tested so far. If you can give me more details about the dimensions of his tank and types of lighting in place I'll be glad to help you fine tune everything so it's just right

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I am using the following products in his tank. I included the Amazon ASIN number, so if you plug that reference into Amazon it will pull up the exact listing of the product I purchased.

2x Zoo Med Mini Combo Deep Dome Lamp Fixture, Black

ASIN: B003F6XW56


2x Reptile T5HO 12" Standard Fixture

ASIN: B01DDRVB9K


2x Lights of America 7020BL 24-Inch Fixture

ASIN: B000QSMZFY


2x Zoo Med T8 ReptiSun 10.0 UVB

ASIN: B0009YHSWK


2x Zoo Med 26396 Reptisun 15W 10.0 T5-Ho Uvb Fluorescent Lamp, 12"

ASIN: B00N1DY82E


(OLD BULB - Kept his basking spot at 110-115F)

1x Mega-Ray Mercury Vapor Bulb - 100 Watts (120V) was his main basking bulb in a dome light above the tank enclosure that keeps his basking rock at around 110-115F

ASIN: B00TQG6DRI


(NEW BULB REPLACEMENT YESTERDAY - Keeps his basking spot at 100-105F)

1x Mega-Ray Mercury Vapor Bulb - 70 Watts - Smallest UV Vapor Bulb On The Planet

ASIN: B00VF9AWH6


(For extra light with no additional heat.)

1x GE Lighting 63857 LED Brightstik 15-watt (100-watt Replacement), 1600-Lumen Light Bulb with Medium Base, Soft White or extra light with no additional heat.

ASIN B01I48Z5PE


1x Aiicioo 60W 110 Volt Ceramic Heat Emitter for Reptiles or Amphibians Infrareds Heater Lamp Black

ASIN: B0183PGF20


1x Aiicioo 100W 110 Volt Ceramic Heat Emitter for Reptiles or Amphibians Infrareds Heater Lamp Black

ASIN: B0183PGJOE


2x Timer Outlet, Nearpow Multifunctional Infinite Cycle Programmable Plug-in Digital Timer Switch With 3-prong Outlet for Appliances, Energy-saving Timer, 15A/1800W

ASIN B01G6O28NA


I have a 40 gallon tank that is just shy of 36 inches wide, 16 inches in depth, and 16 inches in height that I got at PetSmart just to get him home in. It is very shy of the standard dimensions of a 40G tank, but I plan on upgrading him soon to a bigger tank soon. One that is 48 inches wide, 18 inches in depth, and 18 inches high. Just an extra foot of room for him to play.

I have the 24" UVB lights mounted across the front and back panels of the tank inside just underneath the top.

Then I added two 12" UVB bulbs along the sides when I noticed he was frequenting the sides of the tank and was worried he wasn't getting enough direct UVB because he was in the main light's blind spots.

So now, wherever he decides to go in his tank, (besides his caves), he will get getting that UVB.

The lights are programmed to come on at 6am when I get up for work, and go off at 9pm when its time for bed. The heat lamps come on at 11pm so the tank has some time to gradually drop to 75F, and the heat emitters basically just keep that temperature until 6am.

During the first week or so when I got him, I actually set alarms for myself to wake up several times during the night to check the temps in the tank to make sure it was just right. Originally I had two 100Ws in there, but it was too much and kept the tank at around 80-85F, so I dropped one of them to 60W and that was the sweet spot.

He has some hammocks that I put pillow cases on so its nice and cushy for him, one on the hot side, and one on the cool side.

He has the reptile climber things on the glass that he really enjoys, and does a good job at blocking out his reflection in key areas of the tank.

He has a climbing tree ornament that he really enjoys.

His bed is actually a cushy cat bed with some really soft silky pillow cases. He really likes to burrow underneath them, but I refuse to give him any kind of sand for fear of impaction, so this was the next best thing. He really likes getting underneath them and playing in them when he gets tired and starts winding down. He really enjoys them, and gives him that outlet to burrow in things without him getting hurt. And I tuck him in at night like a baby.

He has the traditional tree bark arch that he occasionally sits and stares at me when I am on my computer.

He has a cactus like ornament in his tank that he likes to climb in.

I put some rose quarts in there for him, and a piece of amethyst. When he is shedding, I see him scratching up against them, and he really seems to get some relief from it, plus it looks pretty.

I have a wooden ferret house with a ferret bed underneath his hammock on the cool side, so he has a proper and spacious hideaway when he needs his "me" time. I also have this felt forest thing I found at Petsmart that I mounted to the bottom of his hammock and made it really secluded for him, so it looks like a nice cushy cave. He also likes climbing on them too.

I took several pictures of the enclosure for you.

This is a birds eye view of his tank.


This is a front facing view of his tank.


This is a front facing view of his tank looking up so you can kinda see all his UVB lights.


This is the hot side of the tank with his basking rocks, his bed and his hammock.


This is the cool side of his tank with his cave, felt forest, climbing tree, cactus and other rocks.


This is a close up of his cave I mentioned above. Excuse the freeze dried mealworm treats.




Overall he is pretty happy and alert. I handle him a lot, and let him run around a lot. He is a little grumpy in his photos because I just gave him his oral calcium supplement that he hates. So he is a little mad at me.

He is having issues with eating his regular food since I started him on the oral calcium the vet gave me. I am wondering if the loss of appetite it is a side effect of the medicine, or if he is just pissed off about the medicine in general. I can usually get him to eat his super worms and horn worms, but I can't even get him to eat a cricket or a dubia anymore. So I am just trying to coat all his supers and hornworms in calcium or multi vitamin so at least he is getting his nutrition that way.

Veggies, he is just totally not interested in. I make him a very nice salad every day with some fruit and greens, but every day I come home, it is untouched. Maybe he will eat an occasional berry, but definitely doesn't touch his greens. Sometimes, since the hornworms are sticky, I will try to feed him his hornworms with some shredded greens so they stick to the greens and he is forced to eat some of them. I also feed him baby food by dripping some on his nose and having him lick it up. We do Sweet Potato, Butternut Squash and Apple. That seems to be his favorite. We also do an Apple and Blueberry. I am trying to supplement other flavors into it, as long as they are basic. A lot of the baby food they have at the store by me is too complex for him. I can't see "Beef Stew Dinner" being something he would get down on, nor would I think it would be totally healthy for his digestive system. So I look for flavors that are simple, like one or two APPROVED veggies purred.

Overall, he seems to be making a decent recovery. I am going to try the Repashy for his supplements. Can you link me the specific ones you use?

That is a LOT of lighting for such a small tank. It's good to provide high levels of UVB over the basking site using the T5 but there should also be areas of the tank in which he can get away from the UVB and higher heat if he wants to. They tend to move about the tank a lot during the day to self regulate and get different levels of sunlight exposure so I like to provide a gradient. A T5 tube sitting about 10'' (through mesh) or 12'' without mesh in the way should be providing about 4-5 UVI over the basking area which is similar to mid morning or late afternoon sunlight which is when they tend to come out and bask. I try to get the basking site to about 100-105 with a gradient down to about 75-80 or so on the other end of the tank.

Having a larger tank will allow you to give him more options which is great if he is able to move around more easily. You could give him an area with high heat, high UVB - high heat, low/no UVB - low heat, no UVB - and low heat, moderate UVB so he can move around and choose.

With higher UVB output they should be able to synthesize their own vitamin D so I use a calcium supplement with no vitamin D added https://www.amazon.com/Repashy-SuperCal-NoD-All-Sizes/dp/B00N3BKCGA/ I also use supervite occasionally https://www.amazon.com/Repashy-SuperVite-All-Sizes-JAR/dp/B00BY9GRFS/

The only thing I can add to what CooperDragon said is, BSFL are high in calcium and don't need to be dusted at all (great staple food). To much calcium can be as bad as not enough.
I also agree that he has to have a place to get out of the uvb if he chooses to do so. Having basically 5 strong uvb lights in that small area is a bit much, IMO! I heat my dragons kingdom"2x2x4 viv" with a 75watt exoterra intense basking spot lamp and use 1- 36" Reptisun 10.0 t5 ho for uvb and she is as happy as a bug in a rug!

Gormagon":znjrtpcl said:

The only thing I can add to what CooperDragon said is, BSFL are high in calcium and don't need to be dusted at all (great staple food). To much calcium can be as bad as not enough.
I also agree that he has to have a place to get out of the uvb if he chooses to do so. Having basically 5 strong uvb lights in that small area is a bit much, IMO! I heat my dragons kingdom"2x2x4 viv" with a 75watt exoterra intense basking spot lamp and use 1- 36" Reptisun 10.0 t5 ho for uvb and she is as happy as a bug in a rug!

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Is it a bit much for a dragon who is recovering from Metabolic Bones Disease? My vet basically told me to overdose him on the UVB and Calcium until he starts showing improvement. I have to take him in for more XRays in a couple of weeks to see if the liquid calcium along with the two UVBs on the sides of his tank made a difference in his bone density. Also have to take him in for blood work at some point.

Also, if he wants to get out of the UVB, he can go into his several caves I have throughout his tank. I have caves for him on the hot side and the cool side, so he can choose whatever he likes. He can also go underneath the hammocks for shade, which he does sometimes. But when he is out and about, hanging out on his tree, or hanging out on his hammock, I wanna make sure he is getting at that UVB.

Its a tricky situation for him. I only have the information I have read about Metabolic Bones Disease, and what the vet told me to do. If you have experience with a dragon recovering from MBD, let me know.

CooperDragon":32u69q7m said:

That is a LOT of lighting for such a small tank. It's good to provide high levels of UVB over the basking site using the T5 but there should also be areas of the tank in which he can get away from the UVB and higher heat if he wants to. They tend to move about the tank a lot during the day to self regulate and get different levels of sunlight exposure so I like to provide a gradient. A T5 tube sitting about 10'' (through mesh) or 12'' without mesh in the way should be providing about 4-5 UVI over the basking area which is similar to mid morning or late afternoon sunlight which is when they tend to come out and bask. I try to get the basking site to about 100-105 with a gradient down to about 75-80 or so on the other end of the tank.

Having a larger tank will allow you to give him more options which is great if he is able to move around more easily. You could give him an area with high heat, high UVB - high heat, low/no UVB - low heat, no UVB - and low heat, moderate UVB so he can move around and choose.

With higher UVB output they should be able to synthesize their own vitamin D so I use a calcium supplement with no vitamin D added https://www.amazon.com/Repashy-SuperCal-NoD-All-Sizes/dp/B00N3BKCGA/ I also use supervite occasionally https://www.amazon.com/Repashy-SuperVite-All-Sizes-JAR/dp/B00BY9GRFS/

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As I mentioned above, he is recovering from Metabolic Bone Disease. That is why I went the extra mile on his lighting, dusting his food every meal instead of every other meal, and why the vet has him on liquid calcium.

I can really only go by what I read about dragons suffering from MBD and what my vet told me to do. If you have any suggestions or have experience with a special needs dragon recovering from MBD, let me know. I am full ears.