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Re: Free Range dragon...

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:42 pm
by KevinsMom33
Nona is doing really well - she’s walking all over me and the couch right now - she has come such a long way from the malnourished sickly dragon some monster said he would throw in the garbage ... she’s gotten so strong and has a great personality ...I purposely set up obstacle courses for her to climb and walk on so she works those muscles. The before and after for this this poor little creature are astounding - she didn’t deserve what ever happened to her previously - no creature does- but she is so much better now. She’s now chillin’ on my leg. :)
Sofia is a very special cat - her baby Lily isn’t really her baby - Sofia was only 10 months old (and spayed) when I adopted Lily who was barely 5 weeks and not weened from her mother - Sofia even though she was a kitten herself - adopted Lily and let the kitten “nurse” off her - even though she had no milk. She carried, bathed and “nursed” the kitten as if she had it herself. It was pretty amazing to watch.
The reason there are so many feral cats causing havoc to wildlife is not the cats fault. It’s humans. Humans do not spay or neuter their pets and then let them outside free to roam and then come home - have a litter of kittens (or puppies) and then the humans drop the whole lot off into the wilderness to either die a horrible death or do the best they can by killing what’s available.
Don’t blame innocent creatures for what humans have done to them. If they’re killing the native wildlife - think about who put them into that situation in the first place. They used to be someone’s pet. That’s wrong and just so sad.
It’s our job, if we decide to take ANY animal in, to keep them safe, healthy and give them the best lives possible. They (the animal) don’t have a say in the matter.
Kevin and Nona’s ancestor dragons didn’t ask to be taken from the wild to be put in the pet trade - they’re both rescues from bad situations (Nona’s was the worst) I didn’t buy them- but it’s now my responsibility to make their lives the best I can give them. I didn’t know if Nona would make it through the night when I got her - but I figured at least for that night she would feel safe and loved.
Sorry for pontificating - but I’m very passionate about not blaming animals for what humans have done to them.
Be responsible humans to all animals. Not just the ones you prefer.
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Re: Free Range dragon...

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:41 pm
by AHBD
Good for you , you did the right " work " to get Nona in better shape !! And I agree 100 % about it being humans at fault for the feral populations. No fun for humans, for wildlife or for the cats.

Re: Free Range dragon...

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:59 pm
by Gormagon
Thank you for taking Nona in, she looks happy and, healthy, that's all that matters. She is in good hands now!!!

Re: Free Range dragon...

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:07 pm
by HippieLizards
KevinsMom33 wrote:
HippieLizards wrote:
kingofnobbys wrote:Post something advocating dangerous / bad husbandry and I will jump all over it and do my best to discourage others from thinking it's OK.
If this upsets some , so be it.
Yes, We all know everybody normally means good intentions and we all are Concerned about the one thing: The health and wellbeing of our animals.

I do try to Kindly point out the wrong points of husbandry that one may have; But I do think you may need to lighten it up a bit and let's all try to keep this site as peaceful and Calm as we possibly can. :)

and KevinsMom33, How is Kevin and Nona doing lately? How's the free roaming going? :)

Happy Holidays. :)



Kevin is great - it’s winter in the northeast of the US so he slowing down a bit - he doesn’t fully brumate -slows down and sleeps a lot- he had minor surgery a few weeks ago to remove a couple of growths on his belly that the vet didn’t like - I noticed them over the summer - they didn’t grow and didn’t come off with his shed- turned out both were superficial skin growths, no abscess underneath and no cancer - she said he was an awesome patient and just did local numbing - stitches came out the other day - and barely a scar ...right now he’s doing his morning walkthrough his territory - dining room, living room - he’s going to the front door to look outside, now heading back to his yoga mat... he’s king of his castle. The cats slept through it all ...
Nona is in her tank - soaking up the rays of a mvb - she’s getting so big and strong - she’s going through another full body shed - so she’s not eating well - she does not want the Dubai’s these days - just decided one day - no more Dubai’s - just superworms - I don’t know why. She’s been sleepy too but the vet does not want her to brumate at all this year as she’s still recovering from her malnutrition and dies not have the fat reserves yet. She likes to get out of the tank and walk around - but I keep an eye on her and Kevin - she likes the tank - I think it gives her a sense of security - it’s a big world for a tiny girl ....
thanks for asking Hippie !
How are yours doing ??

That's excellent that everybody is Doing well! :D
I hope Nona Recovers Fully, :)

Everybody here is doing great, Rocket has grown a bit more, He'll be Six months old next month so that's awesome, and I also got another Betta fish today, His/Her name is Phantom, He's a bit thin so I need to fatten him up a bit more. I'll post some photos of him soon. :)

Happy new Year everybody! :)

Re: Free Range dragon...

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:44 am
by KevinsMom33
I love beta’s - they’re great fish and have an incredible personality!
Have a happy and safe new year!

Re: Free Range dragon...

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:10 am
by Beardiecosmo2019
Hi everyone happy New Year! I seen this post with the dragon and the cats and it looks very cute. Lots of animals that you wouldn't think end up growing up together and are very comfortable and good natured towards each other. I've been involved with animal rescue and Rehabilitation for over 20 years these hands have touched probably thousands of dogs and cats ferrets all kinds of fuzzy animals. There's no need for everyone to get upset this situation although appears unique may work out just fine in the end but there's always this thing you need to consider...the cats and the dragon will eventually grow older, sometimes when animal gets older their temperament changes and their attitude changes,as well as the way that they carry themselves changes. if an animal is sick it can be very agitated, it can act out it can do things that normally wouldn't do. you have to consider this when leaving two animals / species together like this. under normal circumstances yes these animals probably do get along very well but if one of them happens to be sick or gets elderly or something else is wrong healthwise, it's going to change its normal habits and attitude and then you're going to have a problem and hopefully you are home to address the medical attention that will be needed,because all the specialists in the world that you have on hand are not going to help if you are not home and somebody gets seriously injured. So I would say free-ranging is probably safe if you are home but I would not allow this Behavior if you're not,because again animals can change at the drop of a hat due to age,Health,temperament Etc. Just something to keep in mind and keep an eye on Good Luck! your animals look beautiful!

Re: Free Range dragon...

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:56 pm
by KevinsMom33
Thank for your insights - Kevin has actually been with me before the 2 cats pictured - he was here when I had 3 elderly cats that have since passed away the last one at 18 in March of 2018 - and Kevin has been with them all as a free range - I can’t tell why it works. It just does. I don’t suggest to anyone to follow my lead - I think a lot has to do with Kevin - he’s a pretty large guy (the pictures don’t always show him true to life) he’s about 23 inches and about 1.5lbs from our last vet visit (he’s been this weight for 2 years) he’s very very chill and does not run around like a little prey item. So the cats don’t chase him and never have.
Most if the time during the day he spends on his favorite rock under the lights and the cats are sleeping. If the cats sleep under the lights with him - sometimes he’ll bob his head or sometimes he’ll just allow it. I know this because - I work from home. It may not seem like I keep an eye on them but I do.
Nona is an entirely different story. She’s young and still very fragile. She stays in the tank. When she comes out she is watched very closely. But she does need to come out if the tank to run around and get her exercise. It’s very important to her health and recovery.
The only reason I started this thread was really to find out if anyone had a free range dragon or if I’m the only one.
It may not seem it, but I do read through all the responses, I appreciate the concern that everyone has for Kevin and it goes make me think about what I can do to keep him safe and happy. There are two things that I cannot do - 1) put Kevin back in a tank - of sny size. He just can’t tolerate it. 2) I will not get rid if my cats. the cats stay. I like them. :)

Re: Free Range dragon...

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:54 am
by Beardiecosmo2019
I understand every household is different what works for one may not work for others trust me I have lots of animals. I do animal rescue I have seven dogs alone,furry animals,cats, other Critters as well as a MBD recovering bearded dragon that I just rescued not too long ago. People do have to do what works for them in their household. I think everyone's just concerned because of what a cat can do to a dragon if it attacks him or her. As a matter of fact I was just reading a post on the discussion board or the ER board recently,I can't quite remember but she was looking for help because she came home to her bearded dragon attacked by her cat and it was laying on the floor opened up.she wanted to know what to do to help him. It probably wasn't a cat that lives around the bearded dragon all the time I don't know she didn't give the specifics but I can assure you a cat will attack a dragon and cause very serious lacerations and because of the saliva in cats and bacteria, the infection can be deadly. Prevention is always key. Of course by no means am I telling you how to live your life again I live a lot of animals I know you have to do what you have to do I think that people are just worried about what a cat can actually do if it comes to that. I'm just curious this other bearded dragon you speak of does she have a disability,mbd,something wrong with her? As I stated above I took on a bearded dragon with MBD this is all new to me but I didn't want to see this little guy euthanize after everything he's been through. It's been a very rewarding experience but also very sad and very much a learning experience. Thanks for the reply take care.

Re: Free Range dragon...

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:42 am
by KevinsMom33
Both Kevin and Nona are rescues - both had mbd. Kevin’s hands are twisted inward and he walks on his wrists - but that goes not stop him from being the king.
Nona was much much worse - she was severely neglected. Malnourished(starved really), dehrydrated, couldn’t move, twisted spine, mbd. I syringe fed her 4-5 times a day, with good protein and veggies and calcium and vitamins. We sat outside for at least 2 hours everyday so she got the fresh air and sunshine that nature intended for these guys and inside the tank she got the correct lighting also.
She turned around amazingly - within a month she was eating Dubai’s and small superworms on her own and also eating greens on her own. She has doubled in size, her spine straightened and the mbd according to the vet has been reversed and she runs around like any other dragon. Getting stronger everyday. No sign of her neglect.
Waiting for summer now so I can bring both Kevin and Nona outside in their new outdoor enclosure.
She is not free range - she prefers the safety of the tank - I do keep an eye on her when I take her out - especially with Kevin and the cats because she is still small and I do worry about Kevin getting rough with her.
There are pix of Nona on this post from the day I got her and most recent.

Re: Free Range dragon...

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:35 pm
by Beardiecosmo2019
Sounds just like the dragon I recently took on Cosmo.his spine is curved currently. He was starting to walk on his wrists but I must have caught it just in time because they seem to be getting a little better. I went with someone to someone else's house for a visit and discovered this dragon and this is how it all started. I tried to educate them but they didn't want to hear anything. he was dragging his back legs around his tank he's paralyzed in his back legs. Apparently they didn't see anything wrong with him dragging his back legs around the tank LOL and he was a year old and in a 20 gallon with no UVB just a Zoo Med combination 75 watt bulb. He had never been taught to eat greens and he was only eating crickets in which had never been dusted before.he was basically dying in the tank and everyone was just walking past him., he was mentally disoriented cold very dark in color and you could see his bones he was in rough shape. I've had him for a few weeks and I had to start feeding a baby food with a syringe as you probably know and basically treat him like hospice care. He slowly but surely recovering and getting more active and alert. He wasn't even really moving when I first took him on the front or back just laying there lifeless. His tank had crusted food in it and so much poop it should be illegal to treat a dragon like this. I ended up negotiating with him and paying for him believe it or not LOL just so I can help him. He's sweet as pie although sometimes he can be grumpy LOL he's gained a lot of weight and he's trying to use his back legs so that's a good sign and after hearing that your dragon has recovered from MBD it gives me hope because a lot of people are telling me they usually don't recover.

Re: Free Range dragon...

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:51 pm
by KevinsMom33
OMG how horrible for him to be so neglected. I am so happy you took him!
Why people think that its ok to treat anything that way I will never know. I always figure, if they treat a little creature so badly, how do they treat they're own kids...
You are doing the best for him, better than anyone ever had - with Nona, it was like hospice care, I really didn't know if she would make it for the 1st day, let alone a week. I just wanted to make sure she was loved and felt safe for once in her life. - but she slowly started to move and get stronger. Her neurological symptoms were going away, she became more "aware" One day she pushed herself up on her front legs in the classic beardie pose... a few days later she started squirming on her belly to get to places, then a week later was up on all legs - walking - She'd get out of breath and exhausted quickly - but every day was an improvement. I did hand feed her greens by pushing them in her mouth because she'd never eaten them either. HShe eats tjhem bu herself now - Everyday that she showed to wasn't going to give up, neither was I.
I'm sure under your care Cosmo will improve more and more every day. If he's already starting to move around and try to use his legs that is fantastic - he probably never built up the muscle. For Nona, to get her working her legs, I would put her in a casserole tupperware container with warm water for "hydro therapy". Not a lot of water, just up to the elbow. She doesn't like water, so as she tried to get out, she was actually working all 4 limbs. Sound like torture, but it was necessary to work on her muscles. I even put a bit calcium power in the water. and today she was running! - all four legs running like she's always wanted to - down the hallway because she is full of p**s and vinegar today.
If you are still syringe feeding him, try Repashy Superfoods Beardie Buffet or Repashy Superfoods Grub Pie - Much better for them than baby food - if I had known about it with Nona, its what I would have been giving her. I have some now in case she needs it - but she's doing really well.
Instead of crickets - Dubai roaches are much more nutritious and also phoenix worms are naturally full of calcium.
They can get better from mbd, Nona was young enough that she didn't have any permanent damage that we can spot, Kevin's damage was already done, his hands will never straighten out, he's got some wonky toes, and his tail has a small kink. But he's solid as a rock now. Nona gets calcium at least 5x a week now (it was everyday) and Kevin once or twice a week.
I have videos of Nonas progress from the day I got her until...today.
if you ever want to discuss -you can always private message me.
I'd love to hear how Cosmo is doing.

Re: Free Range dragon...

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:36 pm
by Beardiecosmo2019
Hi there again. Yes it was awful a lot of people think of reptiles as nothing. Bearded dragons are sold as easy-care pets in that is totally wrong because they require a lot in order to be maintained properly. Selling people starter kits and little green pellets at the store to feed them is where it all begins to go wrong. Cosmo is eating greens I had to take small pieces and sliver them between his lips so we had no choice but to chew and he realized he like them LOL he's currently eating collard greens and mustard greens. The baby food is squash because it's nutritionally dense. I mix his calcium powder in that as well. I don't feed him crickets,I prefer more nutritional stuff such as dubia roaches,worms,bsf larvae,superworms if they're cut up and not too often because sometimes they don't digest too well. I stay away from mealworms or crickets anything like that. He gets a bath just about every day so that way he poops in the water and does not mess up his enclosure. He actually loves a warm bath I don't believe he received enough of them before he was pretty dirty and very dehydrated. When I first took him in which was a few weeks ago I was giving him warm baths with Pedialyte in it as well as spraying him down 50/50 water and Pedialyte. I still spray him down with water and Pedialyte. He doesn't drink too often perhaps he gets enough through his nutrition and baths. He started off with liquid calcium glubionate recommended by the vet. He had every deficiency you can think of. He was the blackest bearded dragon I've ever seen. His ear holes were on the ground that's how skinny and dehydrated he was,very small. He's I believe a little more than a year he should be pretty full grown by now but he's not he's small,lacking nutrition they were starving him. Still living in his starter tank with a 75 watt bulb approximately 18 in above him and no place to bask there was nothing in the tank he couldn't move away from the light he couldn't go to sleep the light was on 24 hours a day. I could go on and on but we know how it goes anyways he's living the life now. His lights are on a timer and he goes to sleep every night and he has a natural wood tunnel to sleep in. He is currently eating greens everyday as well as worms larvae or roaches. He's in an enclosure that has natural slate, Driftwood,plants Hardwood sticks,flower pictures ,a hideout,and he doesn't have to stare at his own reflection stressed all the time they didn't do anything for his enclosure. He also has a reptisun 10.0 now with a basking light. And after speaking to a few kind people in this forum I have adjusted his enclosure so that he can more easily get closer to his light.they explained how many inches he needed to be in order for it to work properly and he's loving it! he gapes a lot he loves it He's talked to played with and picked up everyday so he's not lonely but he's a bit of a grump lately and I couldn't figure out why and I think it's because he's shedding. I went up to the enclosure and saw his eyeballs bulging. Then shortly after I seen a small piece of skin around his eyes hanging off so I kind of figured it out now I know why he's been a little off. Not really eating like he normally has. It's kind of weird they bulge their eyes to try to get the skin off lol he's gaining weight not as fast as I'd like him too but I have a couple of things coming in such as organic bee pollen and some repti boost I think it's called some other things to try to help him. I don't mind the vet doing what's needed but I don't want to pump him full of a bunch of stuff that's unnatural cause sometimes that messes them up even more. Anyways thank you for the replies you can privately message me if you'd like they probably don't want us talking like this on the Forum LOL I don't know what the rules are and I have some things I need to tend to right now so I'll be back later thank you for the chat

Re: Free Range dragon...

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:24 am
by KevinsMom33
You are doing everything right for Cosmo. He’ll keep improving day by day - getting stronger and past his mistreatment.
I always wonder if Nona remembers anything about how she was neglected. I hope not - I hope all she (in that tiny reptile head) thinks is that she didn’t feel well before and now she feels all better. Hopefully Cosmo will be the same. That they don’t realize that they were the victims of neglect but that they used to feel sick and weak and now they don’t.
Oh and if you can get him outside for fresh air and natural sunshine - (spring and summer) that would be the best thing ever - Kevin and Nona both spend hours outside in the nice weather. Best thing for these guys.
You guys will be great!
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Re: Free Range dragon...

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:04 pm
by vrenee1018
Hello there, KevinsMom:

Do you ever have issues with the big guy being anxious in his tank when he's not just roaming and ruling the house? I let Tampico roam a lot when I'm home and she puts up a big ol stink sometimes when I'm at work. I'll check on her via nannycam and she just goes crazy. Scrapping and running from end to end up and down the glass. Just wondering if this is normal for yours because you let him roam so much.

Thank you!
Vanessa

Re: Free Range dragon...

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:59 am
by orangejulius
Just my two cents: I'd personally never allow a Bearded Dragon around a larger animal, as animals no matter what can act violently at random times. Cats in particular can be well behaved, but suddenly attack a small moving object. All it takes is one claw to pierce the beardy's skin to cause an infection that can kill him.

That said, I personally let me beardy boy run all over the house when I'm there to watch him. I don't have a cat or dog that could possibly hurt him. I've beardy-proofed any locations he can cram himself into, and close off rooms with hiding places. If I find him wandering too far, I'll bring him back to his favorite sunning spot in from of the front picture window so he can warm up and show off for the ladies. (It's head bobbing season!)

I only get to do this on the weekend, and sometimes when I work from home, but I can tell he loves having free reign over the house.