Free Range dragon...

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Free Range dragon...

Postby KevinsMom33 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:31 am

Does anyone else have a free range dragon? Or am I unique in this?? Yes, Kevin really is free range - has not been in a tank in years - he was very very unhappy in a tank- its a 50 gallon and he would fuss and fuss and finally I just started slowly setting him up with a basking area outside of the tank, started off slowly and then he just started refusing to go back in the tank - and he prefers freedom and we never looked back. And because of being free range - he's very muscular, he walks around the entire house, up and down stairs in and outside to sit in the sun (supervised of course). He is well cared for, we see a vet specializing in exotics and we have a friend who is a herpetologist that we visit regularly - they both say that if this situation works for us, its fine.
As I am new to this site - I may not be accustomed to the intensity of feeling some people have about dragons and how we should care for the creatures whose lives are entrusted to us - I know not everyone understands the relationship Kevin and his sister Nona (who is still in a tank - Kevin's 50 gallon - as she is a rescue and still recovering from severe neglect, malnutrition and mbd) have with their cat friends. My cats have never known a world without Kevin- they were small kittens and Kevin is a pretty sturdy guy and put them in their place if they annoyed him. Again, both the vet and the herpetologist say if it works for us, its fine. I'm sure there are many cat/dragon horror stories some can tell - but I've also seen so many pix and videos of cats interacting with dragons (cuddling with and sleeping with) I cannot be the only one that has this kind of household. I would also never ever do anything to cause harm to any of the animals in my care or put them in a situation that I did not think was safe. Please do not judge if you do not see the daily interactions with all of us.
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Re: Free Range dragon...

Postby Hikari » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:37 am

If it works, it works. Looks like everyone's happy and enjoying the basking light! Very cute.
1 Beardie, 1 Ball Python, 2 Corn Snakes, many fish, and 1 old, lazy Basset Hound
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Re: Free Range dragon...

Postby CooperDragon » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:45 am

I offer Darwin free range whenever I'm home. He has a dog bed in the window sill so he can sit on it and watch outside. He has three portable basking lights. Two are 100w MegaRay MVBs and one is a plain halogen heat bulb. He tends to choose between them at different times of the day. He is free to run around the house and often does. Especially now, when he's in hyper mode after brumation he even surfs the walls of the house and darts from room to room constantly. He would be miserable confined in a small tank all day. As long as you have a safe area for them I think it's beneficial to give them as much space and enrichment as you can.
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Re: Free Range dragon...

Postby Aaradimian » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:46 pm

Hi,

Just my two cents. I think co-habitation with cats & dogs is possible under the right circumstances, and it seems like you may have those in your situation. I know from having cats in the past that I'd be hesitant to try socializing them myself. I've seen evidence in my yard from time to time of what they can do to baby rabbits, and my own has come back with carcasses. They are what they are- predators, and there was an article this year about the wholesale decimation of Australia's reptile population by ferals, with bds definitely on the menu. Cats will also kill even if they aren't hungry, again, as a consequence of their nature. That said, we had a bunny at the same time as the cat, and even have a picture of them going to the vet together in one carrier. They didn't know what to make of one another and just ignored the other. So does all this imply that dragons are at risk from cats? Absolutely. Does it mean that situations like yours are impossible? No.

I personally have never seen a cat-attacked dragon, but can imagine it's pretty awful. The dragon will suffer most, of course, but there's also an emotional toll on the owner. I loved my cats and I love my beardie. I can't imagine how awful I'd feel if one of my friends suddenly turned on the other, nor can I can't imagine having kids and explaining what happened to them. But this is me, and each of us makes our own choices. I'm no saint-- my cat Lunchie ended up being a coyote snack because I let him out, so I'm not lecturing or judging here. If it works for you and all your non-humans are a happy & healthy family, then good on ya! For me, the consequences of guessing wrong outweigh the benefits, and so I will have dragons OR cats, but not both. Lunchie died, and I suppose so did a bunch of other critters, as a consequence of my decision to let him roam, so I have chosen a different path this time with my pets.
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Re: Free Range dragon...

Postby KevinsMom33 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:00 pm

To tell you the truth - the cats are more scared of Kevin in the spring and summer when he’s looking for a girlfriend .... he chases them - he’s very very territorial of the dining room, living room and deck in the summer. Most of the time, he lounges on his favorite rock under a mvb with a space heater blowing on him - like he’s Archie Bunker -
My theory - and it’s only a theory is that Kevin was a full grown dragon when they were kittens, he’s been in the house with them their whole lives - they are indoor cats. They’re bored of Kevin. The most they see is birds from the windows.
They freaked out and ran from the field mouse in the basement.
I’ve had outdoor cats that cave home with all manner of bird, rabbit, snake ... and cats that never came home. Hence the indoor cats.
I don’t leave the cats alone with Nona who is still in recovery - she’s much better - but still requires tlc - and stays in the tank most of the time. In the summer I put both dragons in screened enclosures outside of my office deck (I work from home) so they can get all the fresh air and sunshine a dragon needs. And I can keep an eye on them while I’m working.
He is just now setting to get aggressive to Nona - so I keep a very close eye on their interactions. He’s still much bigger than her and I know can hurt her. So they are never left alone together. If she starts doing the arm wave at him - I remove her from the situation. I’m just worried about when she “comes of age” I don’t want eggs or babies!!!
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Re: Free Range dragon...

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:46 pm

Free ranging lizard in presence of a cat/cats :
This is VERY DANGEROUS to the dragon. I'll be very direct and blunt here - you are living in a fool's paradise. Cats, ALL CATS, are HARDWIRED KILLERS , no matter how docile and lazy the cat appears to be (when around you) , even extremely well fed and very fat cats MUST NEVER BE TRUSTED or allowed access to lizards or other smaller animals.

NEVER LET YOUR / ANY CAT NEAR THE DRAGON - it's only a matter of time before the cat attacks the dragon ( IT WILL HAPPEN , you can bet your home on this) and then it will be too late).

It can only take an instant for a cat to turn on the unfortunate lizard and there will be no warning signs this is going to happen.

If you insist on having a lizard in a home occupied by / visited by a cat , the cat must never be allowed to even have access to the room the lizard's tank is in , and the two MUST NEVER EVER BE ALLOWED near each other or even allowed to see each other.

Free Ranging in the presence of a dog :
Less dangerous than with cats, dogs can be trained to ignore the lizard, BUT never allow the dog unsupervised access to the lizard , a playful dog can accidentially bite or jump on the lizard and very seriously injure it.


Free ranging in the house - is a great way to provide mental stimulation and enrichment to a dragon, provided there is nothing on the floor that can is dangerous if ingested and the lizard is supervised.
In my case my big girl Peppa regularly freeranges in the lounge/kitchen/dining/living area of the house and often shares the floor with one of the old bluetongue skinks. The bluetongues have been used to sharing the floor with a dragon on a regular basis once the dragons are too big for the bluetongues to eat them, often share the sunny window that is next to the front door and sometimes the dragon is the trail blazer , other times it's the skink. They have even been known to share an occasional plate of salad with mealworms mixed through it.
A word of caution, if you have two lizards , one which is much larger than the other , they must not be allowed to meet , the larger lizard will see the smaller lizard as a snack.



Free ranging outside - is great for a dragon if it's warm and sunny , and there are no dangerous animals around ( free roaming cats, free roaming dogs, predators, or toxic plants or insects accessible to it, and the dragon is never left to it's own devices.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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Re: Free Range dragon...

Postby KevinsMom33 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:39 am

Ok... thanks for the well intentioned and very passionate advise - I’ll do as you say to calm your anxiety down - I’ll put Kevin back in a tank right now-and get rid of my serial killer cats to make you feel better - maybe even send them over kill shelter because you know-they’re just cats ... and they can flip and kill.... my lizard (btw he prefers reptile)
I guess it wouldn’t be a great time to put the video up of Kevin chasing my killer kitten Lily for sitting in his spot ...
Or mention that last summer while Kevin was running around on the grass he ate a bumble bee - which he seemed to really enjoy... so he did it again...

My goodness - my dragons are together!!!.
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Cats and dragons ....
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Re: Free Range dragon...

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:06 am

What is it about cat-lovers ? Does common sense go out the window as soon as a kitten comes into their home ?

Your pets, and it'll be you coming here asking for free medical help or asking for our sympathy when you come home or enter the room and discover the lizard dead or dying or bitten or mauled and traumatized when the inevitable happens. Or some fool who saw your photos gets the impression it's perfectly safe for this kind of cat - lizard behavior to be permitted , that their pet lizard is their cat's best friend and puss loves their lizard and will never hurt it.
It's only a matter of time and EXCEEDINGLY UNWISE AND DANGEROUS for you to encourage this.
The one who will be paying the price for the person's behavior will be the dragon.

Do your pet lizard a favour, KEEP THE CAT away from it and never allow it even to go near it's tank , lizard comes out only when the cat is locked safely away in a cat cage or another room.

At the risk of offending yet another cat lover - so be it. IMO the only good cat is a dead one.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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Re: Free Range dragon...

Postby MarlowAndMe » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:30 am

It’s your pets and you can/ will do as you like
I would not risk it myself. I worked at a vets office as well as managed pet stores for 5 years prior to having my children and I have seen pets that get along “perfectly” for many years have that suddenly change. Not always resulting in death of one- but also injuries. Some of which can and should be avoided by their owner but having so much trust that their animals wild instincts do not show.
From scratches on rabbits eyes from cats, bites on small animals, toes lost on birds from other pets biting them, obviously to much more serious.
Also there have been many instances of puncture wounds on dragons from cats sudden playfulness or sudden turning on dragons that I have read or heard of from other beardie owners.
My point is, it is a risk and yes so is having two beardies together ( there is a lot of examples that can be put here of too trusting owners getting heart broken from doing this)
But it’s your choice what risks your willing to take. Not everyone will agree it’s the best thing and some will be passionate about this because they worry about the situation for the two beardies sake due to the risk.
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Re: Free Range dragon...

Postby Deabrua » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:11 pm

kingofnobbys wrote:What is it about cat-lovers ? Does common sense go out the window as soon as a kitten comes into their home ?

Your pets, and it'll be you coming here asking for free medical help or asking for our sympathy when you come home or enter the room and discover the lizard dead or dying or bitten or mauled and traumatized when the inevitable happens. Or some fool who saw your photos gets the impression it's perfectly safe for this kind of cat - lizard behavior to be permitted , that their pet lizard is their cat's best friend and puss loves their lizard and will never hurt it.
It's only a matter of time and EXCEEDINGLY UNWISE AND DANGEROUS for you to encourage this.
The one who will be paying the price for the person's behavior will be the dragon.

Do your pet lizard a favour, KEEP THE CAT away from it and never allow it even to go near it's tank , lizard comes out only when the cat is locked safely away in cage or another room.

At the risk of offending yet another cat lover - so be it. IMO the only good cat is a dead one.


He's not encouraging it. He's asking about it. And if it works, it works.
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Re: Free Range dragon...

Postby AHBD » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:03 pm

Um, there is certainly a better way to state your opinion about this situation without being so rude. No need to call anyone a fool or wish death to cats.

Is there possibility of danger ? Yes. But think of this. How many kids get hurt or even die every year from going swimming, cycling, snow=boarding, horse back riding, etc. ? But if you see pictures of children engaging in these activities do we immediately send a furious letter on how foolish the parent is for allowing them to do these things ? Many parents allow their kids around large dogs + farm animals but again, should we yell at them for it ?


And didn't 2 of your free range dragons sadly [ and I do mean this with no ill intent ] pass away unexpectedly who were quite young and also free range ? They may have gotten in to something but no one can say if it was the other free range wild skinks with a disease, object on floor, etc. And I don't bring that up to hurt you because I know it was and is traumatic for you.


It's O.K. to warn someone but to harass + insult is another thing. I'm sure it's out of an over abundance of caution but needn't be repeated and in such strong , insulting manner.
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Re: Free Range dragon...

Postby Drache613 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:01 pm

Under no circumstances is a member to undergo harassment or being
insulted per the TOS. This is a reminder to please read the the TOS as personal insults
and attacks are not allowed.
Thank you.
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Re: Free Range dragon...

Postby KevinsMom33 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:15 pm

Ok thank you Nobby - I think it’s time that you now mind your own business. You do not in any way know me or my situation or anything about my cats or my dragons.
I decided to post or ask questions on this site it’s because I was looking forward to join this site to chat with minded people that enjoy the dragon experience - I don’t know how many times I have to say this- I do not in anyway encourage anyone else to allow their dragons free range and with homicidal cats. That’s just us. Ok Nobby?
And as for asking for free medical help - as I’ve stated already- we have a vet that specializes in exotics (and cats!) as well as a herpetologist that runs a reptile rescue and specialty store- so unless you are as qualified as either of these people - I will ask you to now to leave us alone.
You wish death to someone’s pets. That’s really not ok. Please do not respond to any of my posts again.
We are none of your business.
By the way - I run with scissors, play ball in the house, and sometimes don’t wear a seatbelt.
Last edited by KevinsMom33 on Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Free Range dragon...

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:19 pm

Wow …. I toned it down , I should have posted exactly what I thought of the person who thinks their cat loves their dragon and is scared of it and will never hurt it …. :banghead:

Please don't expect sympathy from me when puss turns on the dragon and bites , scratches , claws it, and breaks it's back or neck and legs and you get a sudden violent wakeup call.

The only one I'll have any sympathy for will be the injured or half dead dragon.

Please don't downplay "cat play" as anything gentle or sweet, it's not, it's sadistic evil torture for the victim. Images viewtopic.php?p=1414500 , viewtopic.php?p=1863088

I'm done with this thread.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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Re: Free Range dragon...

Postby Drache613 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:25 pm

I am watching this thread! Please respect the OP's request & do not post
on her thread anymore & cease insulting the OP as well.

Thank you,

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