Help Confirming Dragon is a Barbata/Hybrid

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Dragony

Member
Hi all,

I bought a new dragon about 1 month ago at 3 weeks old, and I was told that he is "at least half barbata" (as his mother was P. Barbata).

He has since grown RAPIDLY - he's already nearly 50 g and not even 8 weeks old, eats more than any other baby dragon I've seen. He looks different (his spikes are spikier/aggregate differently, and he has different patterns/is dark with citrus highlights). He sheds differently - it's so weird, his shed is unlike any other bearded dragon I've come across - it pretty much crumbles off, and it feels different texturally. Finally, his mouth does have a subtle yellow tint that you would imagine a barbata or barbata hybrid could possibly have - it's like the intermediary between pink and yellow - if that makes sense. Finally, he sleeps differently - he tucks his legs under his belly in the weirdest way I've ever seen. I feel that he is different, as I have had many bearded dragons, but I wanted some insight as to whether or not anyone else with a barbata or barbata hybrid had ever experienced/observed these traits and behaviors or some similar.

I will also attach pictures of what he looks like. Please just let me know what you all think.
100183-1192404074.jpg
100183-5711517227.jpg
100183-9353110692.jpg
100183-1149915103.jpg
100183-6335917110.jpg
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
HelloI

He is a cutie pie. He has some different scaling around the head & neck area. I don't see
any horizontal scaling down the back & tail that is highly predominant. The scaling on the
back of the head goes straight across instead of a steep vertical row style.
He may develop more of the scaling with maturity. The colors are very nice, too. It will
be interesting to see him mature.
Where did you get him?
Pogona Barbatas are only in Australia, so, if there are any here in the US they were illegally
imported because the last ones that were in the US was in the 1980's or so. Unless it is old
old stock but a lot of the physical characteristics have been bred out trying to breed for
color, etc. The majority of beardies in the US are Pogona Vitticeps.

Tracie
 

Dragony

Member
Original Poster
Hi Tracie (Drache613),

I found him online. It is possible, then, I suppose that he was illegally imported, however, I know nothing about that. I suppose he could be old stock as well. He does have some intense horizontal scaling down his tail - like intense patching - and you can tell more when he is in shed because of the way the scales come loose.

Would you say based on looking at him that he's only half barbata then? His color ranges from fairly dark to very dark depending on what he is laying on and temperature, and he is a really sweet boy but huge for his age!

Thanks you for responding, and also thank you for letting me know that barbata imports are often illegal - I didn't know that and hate that I potentially contributed to illegal importation in the pet trade!
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
cute CENTRAL you have there …. is NOT AN EASTERN OR A HYBRID.

If the seller is trying tell you it's an EASTERN or been the result of mating an EASTERN AND A CENTRAL …
> they are either clueless ,
> or BSing you to get more $ ,
> or it's been illegally trafficked ( and he's a criminal ).

The Australian federal government and the state governments here take a very dim view of poaching wildlife to be trafficked , taking from the wild is strictly illegal as is exporting our native wildlife.

the colour change is common with all dragons , it's a thermal response …. if cool they darken up to absorb more sunshine/heat , if warm … they lighten up …
 

Dragony

Member
Original Poster
Hi Kingofnobbys,

I promise I didn't know it was illegal, but he is very different from my other dragons in almost every way. Is it quite common for eastern a to be poached from Australia?

Or could he be from old stock?

I do believe he is different from my other dragons. I have a good bit of experience with bearded dragons, and the fact that he is so different from any other I've had makes me believe he's at least part eastern.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Dragony":1xnn12ov said:
Hi Kingofnobbys,

I promise I didn't know it was illegal, but he is very different from my other dragons in almost every way. Is it quite common for eastern a to be poached from Australia? <<< no it's not , but happens because there is a market for them and they attract $ from people who want something no one else has or can get. My understanding is it's focused on smaller monitors, geckos, and skinks (shingle backs, bluetongues, sandswimmers) and pythons , these are where the big $ are overseas.


Or could he be from old stock? Doubt it , for the reasons already given my me and others …. any Easterns that made it to the USA are long dead and their decendents genetics so highly diluted by breeding with centrals that they are indestinguishable from the stock of highly inbred centrals available in your country..

I do believe he is different from my other dragons. I have a good bit of experience with bearded dragons, and the fact that he is so different from any other I've had makes me believe he's at least part eastern.
He looks like perfectly normal Central to me in every way.

I've seen and kept centrals and easterns as pets and seem LOTS of both species in the wild (we get easterns in the bushlands here near where I live (along with eastern water dragons, jacky dragons which are very commonly seen).
I can assure you he is a central and not what you was told he was.
 

Dragony

Member
Original Poster
Really? I find it hard to believe he doesn't even look like he could be half. The dragon that they showed me as his mother had a yellow mouth and everything. Have you never seen a hybrid that looks like him?
 

VenusAndSaturn

Sub-Adult Member
He looks like a central to me as well... but I've also seen "Hybrids" online that were being sold and they looked like a central too. Most likely because the majority has way more central in them than eastern.

Taking a guess you either got scammed, or you have a hybrid that has barely any barbata in it.
You might have one thats half and half but thats probably a low chance.
 

Dragony

Member
Original Poster
VenusAndSaturn":23ccm16r said:
He looks like a central to me as well... but I've also seen "Hybrids" online that were being sold and they looked like a central too. Most likely because the majority has way more central in them than eastern.

That sounds possible. Do hybrids ever have yellow mouths like the full barbata? If so, his mother could have, herself, been a hybrid, possibly, and then with him just even more diluted leaving him only with some weird behaviors and a little bit of strange spiking on the head and tail.

Or I suppose he could have just gotten more dominant central genetics from his father?
 

Dragony

Member
Original Poster
I can't find the original picture of the mother, but she looked something like this, only her mouth was more yellow than this dragon's (and this dragon is supposedly an Eastern according to google), and she had a littttle bit more of a pattern on her back.

100183-8013776801.jpg

Unless the guy lied about what the dragon's mother looked like, I guess this little guy is just a hybrid? I don't mind if he's a hybrid or not though - he's such a funny guy.

I was just wondering if anyone else had experienced different behaviors or anything in their barbatas also.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
I think you are grasping at straws.

Some people claim you can tell by the inside of their mouths (centrals pink, easterns yellow) BUT this is not 100% accurate.
I've seen Centrals in the western part of their natural range who had definite yellow mouths (a couple thousand km from where any eastern would ever be unless someone purposefully deposited a eastern there) , and easterns who had pink mouths.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Dragony":1kioktfs said:
I can't find the original picture of the mother, but she looked something like this, only her mouth was more yellow than this dragon's (and this dragon is supposedly an Eastern according to google), and she had a littttle bit more of a pattern on her back.

100183-8013776801.jpg

Unless the guy lied about what the dragon's mother looked like
<<< pretty easy to steal a photo from Google images (heck I've seen some of my photos of my pets showing up on Google images when I've been looking for other things....) or to copy from an Australian breeder's / keeper's photo of an Eastern. Unless you saw the dragon in person - I think it's highly likely you have been lied to and likely scammed.

, I guess this little guy is just a hybrid? I don't mind if he's a hybrid or not though - he's such a funny guy.

I was just wondering if anyone else had experienced different behaviors or anything in their barbatas also.
My easterns were all mega tame and just like more recent centrals.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Even if he does have a bit of a mix in him it certainly isn't your fault for purchasing him.
Unfortunately, illegal pet trade occurs & not much is done about it.
I think he does have a little more scaling than some of the average centrals/vitticeps.
Can you get some more closeups of his tail, since you mentioned there were some of
the horizontal rows/scaling down the tail area?
If there is barbata present, it isn't dominant but may have given a few subtle changes.

Tracie
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
FYI
bearded_dragon_home_ranges.png

This shows the home ranges of Easterns and Centrals overlap in the wild and it's common for wild easterns to mate with wild centrals inside the overlaps and even outside their ranges..

Your best indicator is here :
BEARDIES_CROWN_AND_HEAD_SHAPES.gif

Your dragon is definitely an central based on this.

If you want to see lots of photos of Easterns in the wild , go here : https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/7687180
 

Dragony

Member
Original Poster
Drache613":26vy6njc said:
Hello,

Even if he does have a bit of a mix in him it certainly isn't your fault for purchasing him.
Unfortunately, illegal pet trade occurs & not much is done about it.
I think he does have a little more scaling than some of the average centrals/vitticeps.
Can you get some more closeups of his tail, since you mentioned there were some of
the horizontal rows/scaling down the tail area?
If there is barbata present, it isn't dominant but may have given a few subtle changes.

Tracie

Hi Tracie,

So after looking at some of the barbata photos on this forum, I would say he is DEFINITELY not full barbata - we know that, but he does have some of the ridging on his tail.
100183-8866338702.jpg

So it may not be as pronounced as a full barbata, but those dark lines are not dark scale coloration - they are actual ridging, and his tail sheds in patches as they fall off. I don't know if that can be something centrals can have as well, but none of my other 5 bearded dragons have it, and they are all central.

He is also way spikier for his age than my other dragons.
 
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