German Giant?

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German Giant?

Postby saranita » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:39 pm

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I'm just wondering if anyone on here can help me determine if my bearded dragon is infact a German Giant. My friends and I have a suspicion and I'm just looking for thoughts from people on here. He is 24" long from nose to tail and weighs 628g.
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Re: German Giant?

Postby RandyMarsh » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:01 pm

need a pic bro
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Re: German Giant?

Postby saranita » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:08 pm

Wily Rylee's Blog --> http://wilyrylee.blogspot.com
I have 1 Dobermann Amy, 1 YorkiePoo Jeff, 2 Siamese Cats Lynus & Charlie, 1 Bearded Dragon Rylee, and 1 Tangerine Tornado Leopard Gecko Oryx
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Re: German Giant?

Postby RandyMarsh » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:20 pm

could be part i suppose. I'm no authority though. Go find some Pagona Barbata pictures and compare those. I might recall hearing something about Barbata's having a bit longer of a head, but I can't remember exactly? Some one will come on here and help you though :)
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Re: German Giant?

Postby TheWolfmanTom » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:00 am

The original GG where 26 to 32 inches long, weighed in at 2000 plus grams and where built like tanks.
They have been crossed out so many times since they came over that the line no longer exists in any traceable way (this is My opinion)
Before the morphs dragons averaged over 21 inches long and weighed 500 plus grams.
Due to the work of some breeders. Those sizes are returning, however, alot of breeders are slapping a GG tagline on them to jack up pricing.
In My opinion you have a large healthy pagona vitticeps.
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Re: German Giant?

Postby ChiefsDaddy » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:23 am

TheWolfmanTom wrote:The original GG where 26 to 32 inches long, weighed in at 2000 plus grams and where built like tanks.
They have been crossed out so many times since they came over that the line no longer exists in any traceable way (this is My opinion)
Before the morphs dragons averaged over 21 inches long and weighed 500 plus grams.
Due to the work of some breeders. Those sizes are returning, however, alot of breeders are slapping a GG tagline on them to jack up pricing.
In My opinion you have a large healthy pagona vitticeps.


+1

Couldn't have said it any better
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Re: German Giant?

Postby AHBD » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:18 am

I dug out my old Vivarium magazine [ Journal of the American Federation of Herpetoculturists, no longer in print ] In an article from 1996, Vol. 7, # 6, written by Bob Mailloux + Phillipe De Vosjoli....this is what it said about G.G...." A size morph imported from Germany and offered by breeders such as Pete Weiss. They attain a large size + can produce clutches up to 68 eggs. Males can sometimes exceed 24". The article also mentions that they are a p.vitticeps, not a cross. And the book " General care + maintenance of bearded dragons " by the same authors mentions that p. barbata [ Eastern bearded ] is a different morph can sometimes reach 2 feet. At the time of the writing, there were few in U.S, collections, they were not easy to raise + had a slower growth rate. The hatchlings that came from cross breeding p. barbata with other pogona were weak + did not do well. As for the writer [ Bob Mailloux ] , developer of the famous sandfire dragons, he is known around the world as the one who really introduced the majority of color phases existing in the hobby today. [ If you Google his Sandfire dragon ranch, you will see how long he has been a breeder + what impact he had on the hobby ] But Pete Weiss is reportedly the one to introduce the German Giant in to the hobby, they were in the 22-26" inch range and very large dragons today probably and possibly carry those genes.
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Re: German Giant?

Postby saleen89559 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:21 am

AHBD wrote:I dug out my old Vivarium magazine [ Journal of the American Federation of Herpetoculturists, no longer in print ] In an article from 1996, Vol. 7, # 6, written by Bob Mailloux + Phillipe De Vosjoli....this is what it said about G.G...." A size morph imported from Germany and offered by breeders such as Pete Weiss. They attain a large size + can produce clutches up to 68 eggs. Males can sometimes exceed 24". The article also mentions that they are a p.vitticeps, not a cross. And the book " General care + maintenance of bearded dragons " by the same authors mentions that p. barbata [ Eastern bearded ] is a different morph can sometimes reach 2 feet. At the time of the writing, there were few in U.S, collections, they were not easy to raise + had a slower growth rate. The hatchlings that came from cross breeding p. barbata with other pogona were weak + did not do well. As for the writer [ Bob Mailloux ] , developer of the famous sandfire dragons, he is known around the world as the one who really introduced the majority of color phases existing in the hobby today. [ If you Google his Sandfire dragon ranch, you will see how long he has been a breeder + what impact he had on the hobby ] But Pete Weiss is reportedly the one to introduce the German Giant in to the hobby, they were in the 22-26" inch range and very large dragons today probably and possibly carry those genes.

I found this article online last year when I suspected my big boy might have GG in him. This helped confirm the abnormally large dragon I had with the possibility the genes do exist still, but are weakened and rarely display physical characteristics. BTW, my Dragon was measured 2 days ago, 26.75 inches long. He grew a bit over the last year.
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Re: German Giant?

Postby TheWolfmanTom » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:02 am

You have the actual magazine AH??? Thats very cool iffin you do.....lol
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Re: German Giant?

Postby AHBD » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:30 am

Hey Tom, yes, I do have the magazine. It's raggedy but still readable LOL ! It was the " BEARDED DRAGON SPECIAL " ,price was $5.95 U.S., $6.95 Canada. Back then it didn't even make mention of leatherback or trans., those weren't really around or established enough to be mentioned. It did also mention a small number of p.minima + p. minor were imported into the U.S. in the 80's [ these were small dragons, I never heard of those] But didn't have enough to establish viable colonies. The Pogona Brevis was mentioned as well, [ aka P. Henrylawsonii ] now called Rankin's dragons. But I'm like you. I'd love to see one of the 26+ inch dragons, [ such as saleen has, and the o.p. has a 24"].... even 24" is still very impressive.
Last edited by AHBD on Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: German Giant?

Postby dangit12 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:59 am

that would be cool if fowlcore was part german giant. that would make fowlcore part german. :D
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Re: German Giant?

Postby saleen89559 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:49 pm

I'll take a picture later with him next to a tape measure. I'll also put the tape measure on to show how wide and how long his head is. In any case, each and every beardie owner who has seen my boy in person is just taken back by his sheer size.

In the mean time, here are some pics of him I have posted in the past.

Image


This platform is 22" long and 6" wide
Image


The female on his back is 18" long.
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Re: German Giant?

Postby jirish617 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:23 am

saleen89559 wrote:I'll take a picture later with him next to a tape measure. I'll also put the tape measure on to show how wide and how long his head is. In any case, each and every beardie owner who has seen my boy in person is just taken back by his sheer size.

In the mean time, here are some pics of him I have posted in the past.

Image


This platform is 22" long and 6" wide
Image


The female on his back is 18" long.
Image




thats unreal, and I thought lenny was big, 22in and 937 grams
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Re: German Giant?

Postby Spydr » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:55 pm

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here is the barbata head comparison.
said Spydr.
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