Strange "gulping" (Pneumonia)

I was wondering if anyone here could tell me what this might be (video link): http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm278/bx-me/?action=view&current=MVI_0542.mp4

He's done it before, but it's been pretty much incessant today. Looks like he's about to gape, but he also arches his tongue out, then he shuts his mouth and swallows. In this video he may be actually gaping from heat as well, but he had done it earlier today, at which time I discovered his temps were too low.. still the same pattern.

A little background:
After our recent MVB lighting problems (posted in the Megaray thread), Leo finally started to eat a little by himself (not much, but at least he ate his favorite superworms by himself for the first time in weeks), as recently as the other day. But he's been seemingly getting weaker at the same time, not moving much anymore, and when moving, it's more like he's pulling himself along... I thought he was just still too fat and lazy, but today he's also doing a lot of this strange "gulping". I became worried and checked his temps, and to my shock, the basking spot was at around 98, which I attribute to the newly replaced Powersun. I raised his platform a bit, and got the temps up to about 108, as I was thinking it may have been respiratory, and fed him a few cranberries. However, he continued to do this and eventually threw up a pink mess, which I really hope is just cranberries... I freaked out and rushed to the only 24hr emergency clinic in the neighborhood, but they are only cat and dog... got back home, he seems a little calmer, but I am not.. sure hope it's not serious!

Hello,

How is your dragon doing today? Has he thrown up anymore recently?
What type of foods are you feeding him? I would limit the fruit for him, as the fruits can sometimes cause diarrhea or upset stomachs.
How many superworms does he eat per feeding? I would focus on getting & maintaining the temperatures so he can digest better. Do you give him a couple of hours before his lights go out, to digest any last meal?

Tracie

He could just be releasing heat from his body, since beardies dont sweat or have pores they release heat by opening their mouths so that is can come out.Hope this help a little.

Hi, well, it's definitely not just releasing heat, at least, the gulping part. In fact, when it started, I discovered the temps were too low.

He is still doing it today, not so much gaping, just opens his mouth a little and gulps... no throwing up yet. The problem is he hasn't had any foods in two days now other than those cranberries. The last time he ate was on Sunday and it was two superworms, that's all. He hasn't had fruit since Friday I think, when I hand-fed him some apples and squash, sprinkled with calcium and vitamins. Could this be upset stomach? And is there anything I could do to relieve it? I am still thinking of taking him to a vet today, except I don't think he's going to poop any time soon, which greatly reduces the chance of proper diagnosis.

Update:

We went to a local vet, who admittedly, not a herp specialist, checked Leo out thoroughly, took his blood and even did x-rays... her suspicion is it is respiratory, possibly even pneumonia. She said she will have to order some stronger antibiotic and gave him Baytril in the meantime. I am going to buy an under the tank pad, as I am supposed to keep even the ambient temps at around 100 for now.
The pneumonia suspicion is based on his x-ray. She said that normally lungs show up as a clear outline, while in his they are just pretty much invisible. I am not sure, maybe it's just the way they are supposed to look on x-rays? His blood test results should be back in a day or two, which may also help.
I also remember reading that in severe cases there is supposed to be mucus coming out of his nostrils, which he doesn't have. But he is very weak, which really worries me. He is still alert though, and sits with his head up all the time, even sleeping.. but that could also be due to his condition. I am still at a loss and very worried. Any advice from those who experienced this would be greatly appreciated.

Hello,

You mentioned that he sleeps with his head up? That is normally a sign of a respiratory infection as he is trying to breathe better.
There is no mucous in his mouth & nose area?
If the lungs did not show up much, then that means there is fluid around the lung area.
When was the blood test results supposed to be in? The Baytril should be adequate to help clear up a respiratory infection though. Do you know what the dose is that he was given?
I would watch him closely if you are going to keep the ambient temperatures that high & have him on medication. He will get pretty dehydrated.
I would also suggest using a probiotic as well to help his tummy when he is on the meds.

Tracie

Hi Tracie,

There is no visible mucus, no, although when he woke up yesterday, there was a lot of thick saliva in his mouth, which somewhat cleared up later.
The blood test should be in tomorrow or the day after. The dose is 0.07ml ("strength: MI") once a day, that's all I could deduce from the bottle. If my memory serves me well, it seems lower than what he had back in February.
I read up around and it seems that 100 degrees is too much to keep overnight, as I saw you suggest about 80 in a similar situation. He was gaping way too much before I turned his ligts off, so I am going to try and keep it in the 80's maybe?
I gave him Repta-Aid to keep him hydrated, will continue tomorrow as well.
Am going to order Acidophiliz+ too.

Hello,

How is he doing today?
The dose looks pretty good, but I can't know 100% without a concentration of the medication.
If he did have some thick mucous type of saliva then he may have been starting to develop at respiratory issue then. Hopefully you caught it in time before it got too bad.
I think that around 80 in the tank overnight would be about right to help boost his immune system. Are you givng any probiotics right now during the medication round? Also some extra oral fluids would be helpful. For now, I would not give any baths until the respiratory issue gets cleared up.

Let us know how he is doing!
Tracie

Hi Tracie,

He seems better today, although he accidentally overheated this morning - as I tried to have his rock going overnight and it kept being too cold, so I must've raised the temp too high eventually. When we noticed him being all white, the temp was around 112-115! He was so hot, I am worried he may have had a heat stroke! I picked him up and he immediately pooped hot semi-liquid poo all over my t-shirt He was gaping so hard, combined with that gulping...

He eventually cooled down and regained his normal colors. Interestingly, today, as well as yesterday, he was the most normal right after being fed. He seems to have a hard time swallowing, and for a few minutes afterward, he gasps and gulps, but then slows down and lies calmly without this gasping/gulping for as long as 20 minutes or more. I wonder if it's his throat being cleared off by eating.

I ordered Acidophiliz+ from the beautiful dragons store, which should hopefully arrive next Monday.

Speaking of fluids, this is my #1 concern right now - he seems to have trouble drinking. He used to lick water up if dropped on his nose, but he's not doing it anymore, worse yet, if I try to inject some into his mouth with a syringe (really the only way at this time), it seems to cause him do a lot more of this gulping, and even seem like he's about to throw up for a while after. He hasn't thrown up though yet, but it did look very close a few times. Out of all the things happening to him giving him water seems to cause the worst effects so far. Like, maybe it gets into his respiratory system.. So I really wonder how else I could keep him hydrated without bathing or injecting it into his mouth.

Hello,

I am sorry to hear he is having trouble drinking & swallowing. If he has that much trouble, then bathing him is the only other alternative. If you bathe him early in the day to where he can dry off & not cool down when he is still wet that would be fine.
What is the humidity in his tank?
How is he doing today?
The acidophiliz will help him out also, since he is on the meds.
At night is easiest to use either an undertank heater or a ceramic heat emitter to help keep the tank around 80 or so.
How is his appetite?
I hope he is feeling better today. Keep us posted on him.

Tracie

Hi Tracie, I was typing this when you replied.
He appears visibly better today, and even tries moving around by pulling himself on the tank floor. Which is a bit of a problem as he moves into the cooler side of the tank and stays there. It is still in the 90's but I wonder if that's too cold? He doesn't gasp for air as much, but he still gulps a lot and makes clicking noises. Not sure if they are what people say happens during respiratory infection.. as if he is clicking his tongue, kinda moist sounding. Drinking still causes him the most discomfort, he gulps and swallows a lot, and sometimes shakes his head sideways, as if trying to free himself from something. He also closes his eyes sometimes and his beard is dark.. not black, but kinda gray. I hope it's just a reaction to Baytril.
His blood test results came back and they confirm infection. The abnormal values are "Bands: 7 (H), Bands Absolute: 441 (H) and Monocytes: 11(H)" All those are supposed to be 0.
So, we were told that we are on the right track, and to stay on Baytril for now. He still has trouble swallowing water, although he seems to eat readily if I stick food into his mouth, so his appetite is at least as normal as it's been lately, which is not that great. So I try to give him a bit of water while feeding him, hoping it goes in easier that way. Also, immediately following his medicine, which serves two purposes - to utilize the little bit of medicine still left in the syringe, as well as give more water. Wonder if he literally has a sore throat?
I do have an under the tank pad, but it gets just as hot as the rock, which I try to control with a rheostat.
I also wonder how we'll ever know if the infection is gone apart from doing more blood tests and x-rays, which cost me over $300 the other day.

Oh, and the humidity in his tank has been 25-27% all these days.

Hello Mike,

How are things today?
Yes, those values do indicate some type of infection as they should be zero, ideally.
The tank needs to have a hot end & a cooler end so he can thermoregulate. They can overheat if they cannot find a cooler place to get out of the heat if needed. The basking temperatures should have a nice range of 95-110 but really no higher. The cooler end really should be in a range of 78-82 but no higher than 85 or he could get overheated.
The Baytril does cause side effects & alot of them simply do not like it & will have a darker than normal beard while on the Baytril. Be sure to get the probiotics into him, somehow.
While I cannot vouch whether or not he has a sore throat, he could have mucous in his throat which causes the difficulty in breathing. Do you hear the clicking all of the time?

I hope he is feeling better soon.

Tracie

Thanks Tracie!

He is better yet today, and pretty much stopped gasping for air, but still does this swallowing pattern. He even licked half a syringe of Repta-Aid mixed with water, although I still had to inject the rest into his mouth as usual. I also bathed him in very shallow water, just to get him to poop. The strangest thing that strikes me most is his reaction to water, be it in his mouth or in the bath - even though the level never got anywhere near his head, he still reacted the same way - making these sucking/gulping moves and noises and then shaking his head vigorously. I am at a loss as to what all that might be. Really seems that his trouble is not so much breathing as swallowing, or maybe something that causes discomfort around his chest. I also saw him suck in his beard a few times. Not very noticeable, but compared to his normally big and fat beard, I could see it. I'd say he doesn't do the clicking all the time, mostly after drinking, and randomly every once in a while.

Yes, I normally have the tank set up this way, but as the vet told me to keep him pretty hot, I was wondering if him staying in the cooler end would make things worse. Again, at this time it is around 90, and as he started to move more actively today (not just pulling himself, but actually trying to use his legs! - but he is still weak, and loses balance and falls over a lot), anyway, I can't keep him at the basking spot at all, he goes into the shade and hides there.

I sprinkle his collard greens with beautiful dragons' vitamins with probiotics, although they are now a year old, wonder if any good... that, and equally old Repta-Aid. Hopefully, Acidophiliz+ makes it here by Monday.

How much water do you think he needs to consume at this time? He normally gets one-two 1ml syringes a day, but some days he just continues licking up to seven! So I make sure he gets at least two, but since his whole environment is hotter right now, wonder if that's enough. He is 1 pound 7 ounces, by the way.

I was going to ask you if you could add "(Pneumonia)" to the name of this thread, just so people could see that such seemingly odd and innocent behavior can mean some really serious illness, and to watch out for this.

Hello Mike,

That is great he seems to be doing a lot better. Hopefully, he will stop the heavier breathing soon.
So he wont really sit in the basking area much? That may mean that he is getting too hot. Try lowering the overall temperatures in the tank just to see if he will more willingly sit under his basking area.
Being too hot for too much of the day will result in stress.
He is falling over some? What do you mean, does he fall off of his log or basking area?
How do his eyes look, are they bright or sunken in? That is good he took some Repta-aid & some extra water. The probiotics shouldac still be good as long as they were not exposed to extreme heat.
I hope he is feeling better!

Tracie

Hello Mike,

You can change your topic by going in & editing.


Tracie