Discovered a cure for firefly poisoning

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megabear

Member
I actually joined this forum recently. I was searching in a panic...my big male beardie had eaten a fire fly and he was almost dead when I found him. I didn't see him actually eat it...but it had to be a firefly. Quagmire was housed outside and there were a lot of fireflies aroudn. I didn't even think of the danger; then I went out to check him and he was 80% paralyzed. I could turn him on his back and he didn't move. I immediately ran in and searched the net. I found this forum and basically the news was bad. Most said their animals were dead within a half hour to an hour. There was really no positive advice that I could find anywhere. I thought time was the essence...so I did what I would do for a human. I made a juice extract of fresh parsley, cilantro and diluted (as per bottle directions) activated charcoal. The product I used is charcoAid-g and it is specifically for poisoning cases. I guess on the amount for his body weight. Note that both cilantro and parsley are superb for chelating poisons/metals etc out of the body. Within 1/2 hour Quagmire was marked better. Two hours later, I dosed him one more time and he had a miraculous recovery. I never thought I could save him given his condition when I found him...but this really worked. That was probably two weeks ago. You'd never know it looking at him; he's a strapping as ever. I always have parsley, cilantro and the charcoal on had, so if you don't have any you might be out of luck in a fire-fly emergency. I would at least suggest everyone have charcoal on hand. NOT barbecue stuff though...get CharcoAid-G at the drug store of online. Note, I have a good juicer and that's how I juiced the leaves. I would never have tried to put anything but liquid down his throat...so if you don't have a juicer use a blender with a little bottled water and strain the results into a juice.
 

Azaell

Member
you should tell your local vets this have it get around in the animal medicinal comunity and it will help anyone not on a fourm
 

Jess

Extreme Poster
Wow, thats amazing! :shock: You definatly need to tell some vets! We should sticky this thread too.

Just wondering, about how much does CharcoAid-G cost? It seems like a great thing to have on hand, not only for beardies but for other pets and people as well.
 

Azaell

Member
i honestly think you should take the recipe and a made rememdy to a vet or something you also might get rich off this o_o
 

megabear

Member
Original Poster
I am happy just to know that others have helped their pets with my discovery. I don't believe it could be sucessfully made into a "pill form" anyway as it is important to use fresh parsely and cilantro. Dried stuff just isn't the same--the enzymes die in the processing. I think the Charcoal product is very cheap - probably a few bucks. It is actually used for children, but it would be great for any pet in a poisoning situation.

FWIW I also have a cure for abcesses. I've never had a beardie get an abcess, but they are common in iguanas. I discovered a great cure. I had a big iguana which I had to the vet many times with an abcess on it's jaw (cost me a bundle). The vet would open it up and pull out the crap (looked like cottage cheese - yuck) and he'd pack it with an antibiotic. It would soon grow back. I did this many times and the vet used all kinds of antibiotics nothing really worked. The last time I went in, I said...let's try it my way. I had brought in fresh garlic that I had mashed with a mortar and pestle and mixed with liquid vitamin e. Together we slit the jaw scale and emptied out the abcess and packed it with the mixture. By the next day the animal looked AMAZINGLY better. He was cured in a few days. The vet was blown away...said he was going to do a presentation at some vet conference (I don't know if he ever did) I moved. That was many years ago in Chicago. You can do the same thing for an infection in a human....(did it to my son once; he had fallen and got a bad side-walk burn, then he went on a slip and slide (must have picked up some nasty bacteria). That night he woke up crying and I almost fainted when I saw his arm --all pussy. I was going to bring him to the emergency room but he was screaming no, no he wouldn't go. I said, "there is something we can try--but it's going to hurt some." I made the mash and spread it on. Wow did he yell. I ran and got ziplocks full of ice to put on it to stop the sting. (should have had them ready before hand). The garlic killed the infection almost immediatley. It's incredible stuff.
 

Jess

Extreme Poster
Wow, you have some skills with natural medicine! I would have never thought to use those kinds of things.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

That is a great story! The activated charcoal has been known to be effective with detoxifying the systems & that is usually what vets do when they flush their systems out. Most of the time they don't last long enough to get to the vet though is the problem.
I agree, keeping that on hand is an excellent idea! The parsley & cilantro are great for binding substances in the body & flushing them out with the molecules.
Excellent story & help for all reptile keepers.
Thanks for sharing this with everyone. I have activated charcoal on hand, but don't always keep the other in the kitchen all of the time.

Tracie
 

Buggsy

Gray-bearded Member
Yes crude garlic extract help to prevent quorum sensing, a method of cross talk between bacteria which they use to 'mount effective attacks on our bodies' for want of a better analogy. The exact protein hasn't been found, but crude extract is still very good. Not sure what the vit E would have done to help, but its very good you have passed all this on for us!
 

megabear

Member
Original Poster
I used the vitamin e for two reasons. One, it acted as a carrier which kept the garlic in a paste, second as a soothing agent for the skin as garlic is quite harsh. I've never heard of quorum sensing; it sounds extremely interesting.
 

Dragoon

Sub-Adult Member
I think it would be helpful to all of the reptile owners in your town if you got a part-time job in a pet store. :)
 

carriej73

Member
Megabear,
Does the activated charcoal need to be given kind of immediately?
My son gave our bearded dragon (female, about 2 years old) a firefly last night, probably almost 24 hours ago. I don't know why he did it. We usually just feed her crickets and green lettuce. Anyway, she was acting wierd, mouth open, very thirsty. And drooling, a thick drool. :( I found this post and sent my husband to the stores. We gave her pedialyte and the activated charcoal . It wasn't the brand you mentioned and I think it's more mild, package says for gas/abdominal pain not poisioning. (He did ask the pharmacist). He also got the cilantro and parsely but I didn't juice those. She is doing a bit better, she ate crickets and isn't as thirsty. Any suggestions?? The charcoal/pedialyte was given at about 1 pm and she ate the firefly at around 10 pm. I also bathed her and she pooped in the water.
Poor Puff :-(
 

megabear

Member
Original Poster
Well, I'd say the sooner the better, mainly because from posts I've read most beardies will die within 1/2 hour to an hour of eating a fire fly. It sounds like your beardie has a stronger constitution...or maybe the firefly just wasn't that potent. If you gave him the charcoal and he's doing better that's what counts. I'd still give him the juice as an added measure. Good luck.
 

Buggsy

Gray-bearded Member
Megabar, yes it really is, im a medical microbiologist and my dissertation from my first degree was a big review of the subject!
 

megabear

Member
Original Poster
When I made the original post about firefly poisoning it was in relationship to an incident I had with my male beardie that happened about two weeks ago. Since giving him the anecdote, he has been fine and yesterday he was looking so wonderful I even took him out to photograph him –hence his handsome face dones my avatar.

Last night after dinner, I went out to give the two beardies a few blueberries for a treat. I have a top opening cage on my deck so on opening it and the female was already there waiting for the treat. I was feeding her her third berry when the male lunge from out under the greenery—I thought he was just anxious for his fair share, but when I looked down I could see he was (what appeared to be stuck and thrashing wildly). At first, I thought he must have gotten a foot stuck in the cage wire or under a rock but in clearing the way I saw he was actually in full blown convulsions. His beard, all the way around his neck and up across his ears was ebony – I’m talking as black as anything can get on this planet, and the last five inches of his tail was dark, dark brown. He was simultaneously retching and trying to evacuate his bowels – violently. I had to assume it was poisoning again. I grabbed him and held him stable to my chest as I ran in the house and worked to put together the anecdote. I made up a 3ml syringe (no needle tip- just plastic delivery tube) of CharcoAid-G. I followed that with about 5ml of bottled water. Honestly I gave him the water because in my haste to mix up the charcoal I thought I might have used too much. Also, at this point I felt it was a done deal and I was just going through the motions. I could not see him living through what I was witnessing. Still…I continued to work with all haste; I wrapped him in a towel and lay him on the counter as I worked to make a juice of cilantro and parsley. Then I gave him 6mil of that (two full syringes) of that bright green concoction. He was still retching horribly, so it wasn’t difficult to get the liquid into him. I held up upright against my chest so as to use gravity to let it drip down into his stomach.
I put him in his indoor cage (leaving the female outside) and I kept an eye on him. He twitched and writhed wildly off and on for about an hour. Then, he went into a full-blown death throw. He flipped on his back and convulsed uncontrolably—then he was still and the end of his tongue was sticking out. Everyone gathered around and we said our goodbyes. I wrapped his body in a towel and took him outside to bury him. I sat outside for a little while—deciding to wait until he had that sunken-eye look of death. I could not see any breathing motion, but his eyes didn’t look dead yet. I have a kiddy pool on my deck which I keep filled with fresh water that I use by the bucket full to water all my deck plants. I took him to the pool and put his limp body in it – holding his head out of the water. I massaged his stomach…hoping to physically move the poison out. Then…under the water, I thought I could still feel a faint heart beat. He twitched. I kept massaging. This went on for about 10 or 15 minutes. He did a small poop into the pool. That was the first real poop he had had in all these convulsive movements (which actually surprised me) of course, animals dying always poop – so it was expected. I just thought there should have been more. I wondered if he had some impaction going on too. That said—he did the poop and he seemed somewhat more alive afterwards. I wrapped him in a towel. He periodically convulsed again arching his back as if in pain. I just held him immobile and carried him to the couch where I laid with him on my chest, gently holding him through the convulsive movements. My slightest movement would make him arch wildly so I lay perfectly still letting him rest upon my on breathing chest for a couple of hours. I didn’t want to put him into his cage until I was sure he was through convulsing as the last time he convulsed so badly he picked up substrate particles on his eyeballs, lips and tongue.

When he was perfectly void of convulsive movements for quite some time, I took him—still wrapped in the small towel and placed him in his indoor cage on the warm spot. Every hour or so, I’d check him using a flashlight. I noticed his eyes were looking more alert, although he was splayed out, unmoving from the position I had left him in. This morning I came down and he looks ---are you guys READY??? Absolutely fine. Bloody normal! All the color is back to normal, his strength is back. I took him out and put him back in the cage with the female. I have NEVER in all my days of keeping animals (and we’re talking 45+years) seen an animal go through death-throws and recover. I have to think it was the charcoal and the parsley/cilantro juice. The charcoAid-G is specifically designed with a surface area conducive to picking up poison from the body. The parsley and cilantro are plants well known for chelating toxins out of the organs. What I don’t get is how he ate two fireflies—and I’m just guessing that’s what happened. There have been a lot of them around and what else could have poisoned him like this? We do have some box elder bugs, which I understand are equally as poisonous to dragons…maybe it was a box elder (or a spider of some sort) this time. Either way, this combination of anecdotes brought my Quagmire back literally from the edge of death. I am blown away. I guess I'm going to have to break down and put netting over my cage. I've had these animals on the deck for summers for (ten years for the female - 5 for Quagmire) with no problem before. What else could have caused something such as this? Any ideas?
 
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